Liquid Labs (30% FLASH SALE GOING ON NOW!)

Thanks Evan for showing us all that you are implementing new standards. I appreciate your willingness to come here and work with us after how hard some of us have been on you.

Thank you also for deciding to make PDO available to us.

2 Likes

Some here have reported VB muting some flavorsā€¦ if you havenā€™t noticed. If I had seen that before I ordered I would have waited for further testing. I mix a lot of large batches that last up to 6 months plus. Some are reporting flavor loss after only a couple weeks. This could be a problem. Like I said I hope this holds up in the long run.

Iā€™m back on the case. Unfortunately I only have about 20 mls of 06 VB left for testing ā€¦what? Iā€™d like a link to a high rez Nic test kit for personal use (is Wiz Labs link above a max accuracy kit?).

Iā€™d like my testing to be focused on what does work well with VB. I took Organic Chemistry in High School and College working on my BS degree in Biology (which I changed to the @ozo school of Amateur Gynecology which resulted in an Associates degree in Parenting with a minor is BS). I have made simple artificial flavors from scratch (organic acids and alcohols) so I have a rudimentary understanding of what @A_B_Dada describes above.

I am in no way a Chemist or Perfumist, but I catch on quickly. On a 1-10 Scale my Organic Chemistry goes to about 3.5. I donā€™t want to request any secret formula for Commercial product but how about some suggestions for a Public recipe (here on ELR?) for something which might be enhanced even long-term with VB (Coffee or chocolate?) Maybe @Pro_Vapes could point me at something ā€¦Iā€™m about to make a flavor order, soā€¦

Remember my original plan was to mix ~55% VB with ~45% VG on top of flavorings to get to 3% nic

5 Likes

Organic I was a cakewalk. Organic II was brutal horrible awfulness. I switched to Comp Sci partly cuz of that (the other part was Differential Equations - engineering math is just the worst). Itā€™s crazy how the classes ramp up when you get past sophomore level.

2 Likes

Iā€™m lost in the fog. Iā€™m looking for answers myself. Iā€™ve only tried one mix for a side-by-side comparison and itā€™s still steeping.

1 Like

Allow me to repost the link from @A_B_Dada 's original post above. Try reading this one more time with the realization this Internet post was created using Optical Character Recognition software capture of an original photocopy of this patent (microfiche?) Itā€™s full of misspellings which are actually OCR fails ā€¦when software looked at a picture of letters/numbers and tried to convert it to ASCII text (so it can be searchable and cut/pasted).

You can start to see (many!) simple errors (misspellings) which if taken at face value might make you feel ignorant when reading this for itā€™s technical value. Example: Search for the word ā€œDocketā€ the word before Docket should always be ā€œAttorneyā€ Double TTs are common OCR fails like 1ā€™s and Iā€™s (ones and eyes) and 0ā€™s and Oā€™s (zeroes and Ohs)

You can get a feel for what I am trying to say looking at all the multiple ways the picture of the word Attorney was captured to text incorrectly ā€¦translation? You almost have to translate some of this stuff, especially if itā€™s a word you never heard before ā€¦more likely an OCR translation error than a failure of your education :wink: Do NOT let this stop you, it is not that complicated ā€¦ok well ā€¦maybe a little.

Volatile ester-based flavors? The basics are simple and familiar ā€¦apples bananas? ā€¦most fruits have naturally occurring sugars and acids. Sugars ferment and make alcohol(s) which combine with those natural acids and makes ketones we detect with our nose as ā€œripeningā€. This is done on purpose in the lab to make a small range of flavors we all know from A-Z growing up eating artificially flavored candy and other foods. We talked about Juicy Fruit as such a thing, which is just vinegar and isopentyl alcohol mixed (isopentenyl acetate) Wriggly was a newbā€¦ he just had a slamming Patent lawyer.

Organic Chemistry 101? ā€œOrganicā€ means carbon-based. One carbon atom has 4 places for other atoms like Oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen etc to bond ā€¦lets stick with gases ā€¦one carbon bonds with 4 hydrogen atoms you have Methane gas. Take off one Hydrogen and you can add another carbon with itā€™s remaining 3 open slots ā€¦two carbon atoms together can now hold 6 hydrogen atoms and you have ethane gas. Pump those gases through water and they can pick up an oxygen-hydrogen and become methanol and ethanol (alcohol) Pardon my over-simplification but natural gas and vodka are pretty close.

So I added two carbons with just hydrogen ā€¦well that just keeps going 3 4 5 6 7 8 carbons in a chain and hey now you have 8 carbons and 18 hydrogen atoms for Octane (sound familiar? major component of gasoline). Same is true for similar carbon chain acids. Many of these simple chained hydrocarbons, alcohols and acids are all naturally occurring in fruits and milk products and mix to make all things you smell (referred to in the document as C2-12).

Hereā€™s a quick simple list of the basics of making your own artificial/and familiar flavors. The Chemists at FlavorArt went to another 3-7 years of Chemistry after learning this stuff, but these are the simplest foundation. Check out how close cherry and apple are chemically. I have done this and as I said above these are all the fake overly-simplified flavors you tasted your whole life ā€¦think Jolly Ranchers and Popsicles and flavored sodaā€¦ also some of the flavors most suppressed by PDO.

Iā€™ll try and spend more time looking at the list of line items for what is most suppressed, but we may be in over our heads in terms of eJuice. The manner in which PDO supresses looks to be an advantage in some cases and can even extend shelf life for some products. A main question might be does it extend the shelf life of nicotine. I wrote this little book because the chemistry is not that mind-blowing. As @zigz said this is the 1-2 year college mark, and the most daunting part of the Patent Article is getting past all the miss-recognized (and so misspelled!) words.

I love a good puzzleā€¦

5 Likes

Pure USP Grade 1,3-Propanediol is now available on our site at this link: https://liquidlabs.us/product/13-propanediol-usp/

I hope this helps people out with their recipes and gives everyone a chance to really find out what PDO is all about. We priced it as low as we could while still covering costs, and as far as I can tell itā€™s the best price you can find on the internet for small quantities of USP grade PDO.

30ml - $1.95
120ml - $3.82
500ml - $10.10
1000ml - $15.63
1 gallon - $43.01
5 gallon - $186.56
55 gallon - $1789.41

If anyone has problems with the way shipping is being calculated, please send an email to info@liquidlabs.us and my team will get it taken care of. Your feedback on this will be very helpful.

We are working on the new VB Drip formula right now that has a higher VG content for those who want to achieve a thicker viscosity in their final recipes.

Weā€™ll also be listing USP Grade VG on our site as well so users can get everything they need to make natural bases all in one spot and save on shipping. As soon as these items go online Iā€™ll post up in this thread.

7 Likes

So has anyone still been mixing or testing with this? Seems to have gone quiet it here. I havenā€™t done anymore, nor seen them release any other versions.

1 Like

Brace yourself for a long boring read , sorryā€¦
I am still using it on certain applications and have almost drained the gallon I bought.I will be buying another gallon due to itā€™s ease of use.
Very few things I know but here is my findings.I absolutely love it on any shake and vape that I have tried. It makes every S%V mix better fresh from the frother. If it was good as a S&V before then it has made it better IMO.The problem is you have about a two week window before I can start to taste the flavors beginning to mute such as Cinnamon and some Vanillaā€™s top notes.I say some because as with my Kiss The Blarney Stone mix it doesnā€™t change IMO when I use Vapor Base/PDO. On three different Vanilla Custard mixes I have tried it does change after a couple of weeks so go figure.
I am using this simply as another tool for testing.I will make a small sample using the VB/ PDO so I can test early and adjust flavors or percentages if needed after 24 hours instead of waiting four weeks as I would using my conventional way.I still have more questions than answers but I am not a chemist nor smart enough to decipher what I am reading about the subject.The people that do know for whatever reason choose not to tell us much so I just roll along doing my thing and figure out little by little along the way.
I love the way I can use it for testing any flavors but especially when testing NETā€™s .I can mix , froth and heat and vape instantly and it tastes just like it has been steeped for a week.If I like the NET , I make a larger batch using my regular 80/20 VG/PG method.I find it incredibly useful for testing but it will not ever replace the VG/PG in my favorite mixes.
It is not a miracle cure for steep but even with custards I can mix a small sample and vape , it isnā€™t as good as a four week steep of course but it is good enough after 24 hours to let me know if I need to alter the recipe before going forward.
I will say this , it tames Forest Mix/Fruit (FA) and makes it wonderful for me and my tastes! I also feel that the people that have issues with Pyure will find it useful , it was developed to reduce bitterness so keep this in mind and use it for that and all is good.Just remember to not use it on anything that you will not be using up within a couple of weeks until you have tested it.
For the mixers like yourself @MysticRose that have no problem mixing small samples and waiting patiently four weeks to test then you may not find much use in this. For people like myself trying to cull flavors quickly or making small batch shake and vapes it is pretty amazing IMO!

7 Likes

Excellent, thank you very much for the update. And sounds very reasonable and similar to my results. Great for fast results, muting with a steep. I didnā€™t think of just using it for testing, that is an excellent idea! Thank you for the feedback :slight_smile:

1 Like

Iā€™ve found, like @BoyHowdy, that VB doesnā€™t hold up well over time. I had mixed a few of my faves and tried after a month hoping my former experiences were due to not steeping long enough, thereby resulting in undeveloped flavors. To my chagrin I found muted flavors across the board where I would normally be treated to some tasty creams, etc.

Thanks @BoyHowdy for your post. I now will take a different approach and try to start using what I have for testing. Great idea!

3 Likes

Awesome! Thanks! I have been also using it mix single flavors. I like the convenience of not having to measure nic and pg. I usually mix solo flavors around 1-3nic so this has been working great for that and the flavors do seem to mature quickly.

1 Like

On August 1 I made 120 ml of Snake Blood Re-Mix using Vapor Base. Trying as a shake n vape it wasnā€™t bad but this recipe does well with some steep. Normally 2 weeks does good. So I put it on the shelf and came back in 2 weeks. Assuming too much, I dispensed half into 2-30ml unicorn bottles and in my vape bag it went. I filled a tank and was a bit dismayed as the flavors which should have developed simply werenā€™t there. But I was also at a point where I had few recipes steeped and ready so I vaped that 60 ml just the same.

Fast forward to today - almost a month later and 6 weeks since mixing - itā€™s like night and day to the SnV and the 2 week steep. The flavor is excellent and nearly on par with the PG/VG blend. There is, however, a dryness that isnā€™t present in the normal blend. This seems to be somewhat accentuated by the Coconut Extra which, to me anyway, seems to impart that dryness in the first place. It seems to be countered in normal PG/VG blends though by the creams used. The dryness isnā€™t a deal breaker thoughā€¦itā€™s not very bad at all. And itā€™s got me reconsidering the virtues or potential virtues of a longer steep with VB. Iā€™m going to mix a couple other recipes and just not touch them for 6 weeks. May be onto something?

5 Likes

That is a very good discovery @SthrnMixer ! I will have to go back and retest the ones that I didnā€™t toss! Yes I did indeed toss a few of the ones that I had mixed up earlier .I never would have guessed the flavors would come back.Luckily I still have several bottles of my NETā€™s and will see what happens with them! Thank you for the share!

1 Like

I have a couple coffee bean extractions in the fridge hoping for an oil-free extraction. I have two bottles one is 100% 6mg VB and one I added VG (doubled vol and double beans). hmm theyā€™ve been in there awhile ā€¦maybe Iā€™ll test. I have avoided heat other than a short trip through a hot USB, which sounds counter-intuitive for a coffee extraction but I am interested in what can be extracted with a much slower rate reaction. They were also initially in the freezer as a test to see if any water in the bean could used to crack the cellular structure inside the somewhat large bean chunks and boost extraction ā€¦couldnā€™t hurt.

Ok itā€™s been several weeks and I re-ran them through a hot USB to thin and shake (hot tap temp 2 minutes in and out a couple times [skaaake]). The cold extraction method worked ā€¦not super worked. I mean this isnā€™t a concetrate. You could take a 120ml bottle and crack about 50-60 coffee beans and put it in your fridge for a month, strain and vape straight.

The VB/VG tasted the best as the VG added a little sweetness, and there is zero bitterness and a solid aromatic coffee (light) flavor. I will leave them out at room temperature and see how it progresses over the next several weeks.

Things that could have been done differently? Heating initially (per the Weasel) then freezing to solidify any oils then strain cold. More shaking, impossible to do while cold. Could definitely waited longer as it is working. Could simply add more beans for a ā€œconcentrateā€. Weā€™ll see how room temp for the same period affects acidity-flavor-color.

I have to say there is nothing distasteful about this flavor. Itā€™s just a mild coffee ā€¦but itā€™s only that aromatic nose-in-the-bag thing you love. The VB is equally flavored but not as sweet ā€¦obvious reasons. I might just do a 70/30 120 for myself and post results in the coffee vape thread ā€¦if only I had a 1/4 liter of VB 3mg :sunglasses:

This is kinda nice ā€¦Iā€™m enjoying. Maybe Iā€™ll just pop the VaporBase/VG one in the USB for an hour

Oh wait hereā€™s a pic

3 Likes

Ok weā€™re back and weā€™re LIVE people. I have to admit I added a couple drops of diluted TPA Sweetener to my RDA. Soo good ā€¦meanwhile after an hour in a hot USB (120 degrees) there was visible ā€œbrewingā€. Below is a pic where you can see the darkening which occurred. I decided in fairness to put BOTH bottles through this process. Iā€™m not sure but the VaporBase seems slightly darker ā€¦may have just been the amount of beans. Perhaps itā€™s better at extraction.

Letā€™s give 'em a taste test. My hope is that I can get more of the good flavors and less of the bad (bitterness or oils), as overall the cold only extraction was weak. BTW I am using Peetā€™s Major Dickasonā€™s dark roast (good stuff from Costco). Letā€™s do VB only first. Bionic spectral analysis says itā€™s about 25% darker (I looked at both side-by-side held up to the light)

Drying down my RDA right now is pure joy. The cold extraction produced some straight vapable juice! With the added sweetener (TPA) it was perfect but if I added some Hazelnut and creams that coffee flavor might get lost. I think I must also be getting some caffeine too ā€¦do I seem chatty? :wink:

OK VB/VG Coffee first because it has lower Nic (3mg) and looks lighter. Definitely stronger and more complex coffee flavors, but some are not great ā€¦good but not super. I am sucking juice from the bottom of the 10ml where all the solids seem to be floating at the top, but I still see some tiny solid bits going on the wick/coils ā€¦could explain, as subsequent hits didnā€™t have the same flavor. Easy to imagine combusting bean dust might taste. After that initial couple draws, definitely getting more of the carbon roast ā€¦might be wise to use a lighter roast unless you wanted ā€œtoastedā€ flavor ā€¦which would be awesome with creams/hazelnut (macchioato!)

Ok 100% VaporBase 6mg. I have to go easy in my RDA as I am already going hard drying this thing down for the next test. As I get down however I have to say I am happy to be vaping some real coffee! I have to be more careful this time to avoid any solids and I have less volume to draw from ā€¦did not like vaping coffee dust! Wow ā€¦different. Not so ā€œtoastyā€ dark which is allowing many other nuances to come through. The juice looks darker but doesnā€™t taste ā€œdarkerā€. Thereā€™s no VG sweetness of course and that may contribute to tasting more coffee notes also. This is spot on coffee.

Conclusions? Cold extraction probably unnecessary. Donā€™t know if being in an ultrasonic bath helped, but a low temp heated extraction was successful. A bigger batch with more beans (and longer time?) would likely deliver a concentrate. Total filtration or brewing in a teabag/filter is advised as vaping coffee solids was not so tasty.

@VaporBase delivered a totally different and superior mildness and complexity, unless you wanted that extra roasty flavor note. I can taste the roast with VaporBase, but itā€™s the major top note of the VB/VG extraction. ā€¦and I have a major buzz :sunglasses: right now. I think Iā€™ll whip up a batch of some caramel hazelnut macchiato. Pic below ā€¦1 hour in hot USB shaken every 5 minutes. The VB sample is the one with less. The other sample seems to have slightly evaporated :wink:

7 Likes

Hey everyone! Glad to see some of you are still playing around with VaporBase. The coffee bean experiment is something Iā€™ve never seen. And using VB to test new recipes in small batches before making more is what itā€™s all about!

I want to let everyone know that we updated our Nicotine levels a few weeks ago to account for 10% flavoring being added to the base. Now you wonā€™t end up so far below your desired level, such as 3mg of Nic per ml of finished e-liquid after you add your concentrates.

We didā€™t update the 48mg and 100mg VaporBase products because obviously anyone buying that will be diluting their base to their own specific strength.

Here are the exact Nic levels that each option comes in now:

  • 1.5mg = 1.7
  • 3mg = 3.4
  • 6mg = 6.7
  • 12mg = 13.4
  • 24mg = 26.7
5 Likes

I have found yet another great feature of your product.I have a couple of peeps that wanted a smooth yet stealthier vape to have on occasions. Your product has worked well for that , great taste with no lingering scent trail when vaped without an added flavoring! :grin:

1 Like

Perfect! Iā€™ve been known to vape a few tanks of pure VB myself on occasion.

1 Like

I have as well on occasion just to take a forced flavor time out and I use it between testing some new flavors to clean the wick before the next.Pretty time consuming changing out wicking every time , much faster when using rayon to just vape it until the flavor is gone and then try the next one.
I do love your product for the testing of new mixes , made my life much easier!