Njord RDA - Morten Oen & Atom Vapes Masterpiece?

You’re not condescending. You’re stating your opinion and you have every right to :wink:

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This is definitely an interesting topic, I have heard of it but never felt compelled to comment as drama is just not my cup of tea.

Looking at the Njord RDA in pictures I have the same reaction as a lot of you, big chamber, small coil and airflow that is non adjustable…hmmmm, usually not a recipe for great flavor.

Seems to me that Morten believes everyone should vape like him and have the same taste. He definitely is not keen on criticism and sort of has a “I know better than you” attitude. I happen to prefer a warm vape so the cool vape of the Njord as it was designed would be off putting.

I don’t have any plans on reviewing the Njord, maybe when the fins are added, I don’t know. I personally would try a larger coil than the 2.5mm that is recommended to give me more of the warm vape that I enjoy.

I think the problem with the Njord is it limits the options, no adjustable airflow is a fail in my book. A successful product is one that lets the user decide on what it right for them, not try and change there mind so everyone vapes like the designer. I think Morten suffers from the same flaw that a lot of engineers suffer from, not understanding why everyone doesn’t see things the same way they do.

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Yeah I’ll be giving this one a miss, I haven’t heard a single good thing about it, it would appear to me that a distinct lack of product testing has occurred, either Morten didn’t send the prototypes out to trusted testers, or he did…and then ignored the feedback.
Mjag is bang on, you can’t have that much space around the coil and expect to get anything in the realm of decent flavour, you need the air to get from point A (inlet) to point B (mouth) in the most direct way possible and in between those points the surface area of the coil or coils need to cover as much of that through flow as possible, there’s just far too much air getting through on the Njord without actually hitting anything, I don’t understand the thinking behind it at all…I think as far as designing your own RDA and bringing it out onto such a huge market you really need to play the majority, if you want to sell a lot of them you need to make something that the majority will want…and from what I can gather, this is just something that Morten wants.

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I got promised to get both the Sandman and the Njord from Atomvapes before the bad reviews hit the net and all the negativity started to flow around all over the net.

The last talk i had with them was that they hadn’t shipped it out due to it being a Beta and therefore not available at this point.

They assured me though that they would ship the finished product out when it is available.

When it comes to the actual discussion around this RDA i won’t participate since i haven’t had the actual RDA in my hands yet and more importantly, i haven’t been able to try it out so it would all be speculation at this point and i prefer facts and a hands on approach before i start talking.

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I shouldn’t make this following comment, but: The use of the words ‘engineer’ and ‘science’ is at the heart of the problem here, if you get my drift. I pointed that out in a post above, and others have made similar comments.

Real engineers spend epic amounts of time looking carefully at a problem before attempting a solution. 50 years ago I was told by one of my professors a comment that remains with me and which serves me well to this day: " (when looking at engineering problems…) Unless you ask the right question, you will never get the right answer" …

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OK, we finally have the first pics of the so called Airblades. Atom Vapes hinted, that there might be several versions to be launched and one should be included with the Njord right from the start. In this pic we see the Chinook.
KgwGgQM

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Will it be able to provide better flavor? I don’t know.

The main theory, why it is lacking flavor is, that the chamber is way too big as it is. This problem would be kinda solved with this insert.

But my theory goes in a different direction. I’m repeating myself, but I still think, that the Njord acts a cyclonic separator. Could someone with more background look into this? Wikipedia: Cyclonic separation

I’ll explain, why I think, that this might be the case, with some illustrations.

A
This is more or less the airflow, as Morten sees it. The air comes in, shoots slightly angeled at the coil and “sticks” to it, due to the Coandă effect. Minor streams are directed back to the main stream with the help of the posts.

B
The result is a cyclonic stream surrounding the coil.

This stream will travel upwards to the mouthpiece. I assume, his theory is right and does provide optimal cooling. A lot of reviewers report a cool vape, we see lots of clouds, no reviewer reported cotton burns, etc. But also optimal cooling does not has to result in optimal flavor. Most reviewers report no flavor, some a little flavor and only GrimmGreen has reported good flavor, but only with slower and easier drags.

C
My theory on this is, that the cyclone forces flavor particles outward. More mass has a harder time to keep the small radius of the curve and are therefore smashed against the wall and posts by centrifugal force. This would also explain GrimmGreens better flavor with a slower drag.

The effect of cyclonic separation is well known and used in different applications. Dyson vacuum cleaners are the best known “technical” example, but you can also look at your salad spinner at home. :wink:

D
So, the Chinook AirBlades will reduce the chamber size. But I don’t see, how they would slow down the speed of the cyclone (as Morten suggested by calling them Air Brakes).
If the AirBlades are a success, then smaller chamber=greater flavor still applies … but if the AirBlades don’t improve the experience by a lot, we have a new field to look upon in future atty designs. At how the air can keep flavor particles, after picking them up.

Any thoughts or inputs on this theory?

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Sorry, messed things up by not knowing about picture limits. I edited my previous post with an all-in-one pic.

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I have yet to see proper pictures of the air ‘brakes’ … but the way you picture it doesn’t cause a cyclone effect anymore.
The air comes straight onto the coil and when it collides, it’ll go in both directions. This will also prevent the flavor molecules being ejected from the non-spinning flow and provide better flavor.

Just my 2 cents, based on what you show me here, not the actual product.

EDIT:
So from what I see, it doesn’t make sense that you get the cyclone effect in picture D

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Oh, you’re right.

If they are wide enough, the wont affect the angle, but if they are close (as it seems), then the air will “stick” to its walls and continue that direction. It’s hard to guess from the pic if the slots in the Chinook are straight or slightly angled. But that could indeed be a way to alter the speed of the cyclone or shut it down. Great input.

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Guess it will be a waiting game to see what it’s actually going to be like :wink:
And that reduced chamber is going to do wonders too.

If I see it right, the air holes in the insert are also wider on the outside than the inside. They can still have it slightly angled, it’s really difficult to see. But going from wide to narrow will increase the speed of the airflow, directed at the coil, making me think there’s still going to be quite a cooling effect on the coil itself.

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Lol. I think no, I’ll wait for the clone.

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Interesting theory.

I am not in anyway an expert on cyclonic separation, but I see at least one problem with this. If this kind of separation was actually taking place then I would imagine that the small droplets of liquid would be the first to get separated from the gas, which is quite clearly not the case as the vape seen in all the reviews clearly contains droplets. I also doubt that the air would be spinning at speeds high enough for this to happen.

I of course don’t really know what I’m talking about, so take it with a grain of salt :wink:

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I agree, that’s just a theory. Need proof to take that seriously…
My theory has more to do with the temperature of the vape and just way too much airflow. Any RDA has better flavor with the airflow slightly closed off. The reduced chamber will do wonders I believe. All that air just won’t have anywhere to go, so flavor will be much better.

I was kind of hoping they would have somehow added airflow control as well in a different way. Now you have to control it with the inhale (like Grimm Green did)

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Chinook
So your guess is, that it will act more like this?

As for the reduction of the slots. I don’t think, that it will speed up the air by that much, because it looks, like even at the end, the slit is still bigger than the 3 holes where the air comes in at the beginning.

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I’m no expert either. But from what I read about it, the highest mass gets separated first. If the flavor particles in the aerosol contain more mass than fog particles f.e. it would still be possible.

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hard to say if you don’t know the dimensions and tolerances

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Temperature has indeed a big impact. Evolv seem have made some observations in that field, resulting in their RePlay feature.

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I think it’s still quite a bit of a secret what exactly they did :grinning:

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The secret is, how they executed it … but Brandon admitted, that they specifically looked into flavor (probably by internal testing and surveys), as different flavors seem to evaporate at different temperatures.

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