Hey everybody. I promised a few people I would share my information on the topic of Orange and the Orange effect. I also wanted to create a safe place for Orange talk.
Why do we need a safe place for Orange? Orange is the flavor not normally featured. This may just be due to being hard to work with (were not talking about adding a hint of orange here…for me I want orange for days, bursting with orange goodness). It may just not be a well used flavor like strawberry. Think about all that information out there on strawberry…your not going to find it for orange. We don’t normally find a new diy’er saying I want a super full orange flavor (except from me a long time ago).
I generally find you either need to shake and vape at low percents or steep the hell out of it. I also find an undesirable sharp notes at the top top that comes from the zest used to fill out the flavoring. This sharpness is not fun and destroys vapes in my opinion.
Thus, you are going to get a long post of rambling thoughts, notes, and recipes at the bottom. This also means I wont do a full grammar check and I want to just get this out there.
***If you skip to the bottom and mix one of the recipes…Please steep for 4 weeks.
In the beginning, there was an ADV orange vape. It was orange crush soda on top of a light layer of vanilla bean ice cream. There is more to the vape…layers of brown sugars and other effects. This was a super full orange, super sweet, and could just vape all day (even today). This is what got me off of cigs. So like many I started chasing the ADV that no one else has had because it is a local company. (and no, they wont give me a recipe)
The end result? Fighting for the full orange drink vape. Whether it is a full glass of Florida orange juice or orange crush soda it is a struggle to get an orange vape this full. Therefore, the majority of my recipes are going for the full orange, breaking some flavoring rules, and have done a lot of odd stuff.
Flavor Concentrates and some flavor tidbits
Yes…this will be a ramble…over an extended period of time (since the day i started mixing) have tried high and low percents. Shake and vape…as well as long steeps.
Here are the oranges I have worked with (there are a couple more, just don’t recall).
—Orange FA (great for bakery recipes when trying to add a orange zest at 0.15-1%)
—Mandarin FA ( I have really only used it to fill up Orange FA…Orange FA can be empty at higher percents.)
—Orange Cream TPA I’ve only used this as a base to lay Orange FA and Manderine FA ontop of.
—Blood Orange FW (this was, for me, the best blood orange for the longest time…does have one of the sharp notes)
—Blood Orange RF SC ( I had high hopes for this, but felt more like Orange RF SC with alittle more of the red part of blood oranges…but does not impress me)
—Orange RF SC (Empty and flat…reacts much like FA)
—Ecto Cooler FW (This has been one of the flavors I have been using to help create the orange crush flavor, but again has the sharp note).
—Orange MF(see below)
—Nectarine MF (see below)
—Sweet Tangerine CAP (see below)
—Blood Orange FA (still testing…notes will be in the recipe section)
—Royal Orange FA (still testing…notes will be in the recipes section)
High level view of orange flavor concentrates
When you eat an orange…close your eyes…what you get is water-then-orange…then you have pulp. This is the problem…when you take the essence of an orange…you get water then orange…just like watermelon (really…close your eyes and think of the flavor experience). This is also why we use multiple flavor companies for the same flavor to create a single flavor (like Kiwi FA, Kiwi double TPA, and Kiwi MF together is fantastic).
I always go for full fruit vapes but it is difficult to get when working with oranges, at least for me. I design my mixes to build a full fruit. There are lots of wonderful fruit vapes that I find to be empty somewhere and I want my mouth full on the inhale and exhale (that’s what she said…lol). I also do NOT shake and vape…I don’t have time to do that. I steep everything for 3-6 weeks…unless I am specifically testing a simple 3 flavor fruit vape (1 fruit+fresh cream fa+marshmallow fa).
Almost all oranges above on basic single flavor tests (fresh cream fa+marshmallow+orange) come up empty/flat. They all also have an odd sharp note. Its the note I like to think people call harsh or standoff’ish. I also think its these companies trying to boost the orange with the orange zest from the skin to make up for the inside. But I do suspect that it is just me being hyper critical and sensitive.
Orange MF is the best in my opinion to creating the full orange drink like flavor with the lowest percentage of that undesirable note. However, it is not the best for every orange profile because it has it own unique place. It’s not just orange juice. It’s not a tangerine. Its not…any orange. Its all oranges mashed together, heated up to evaporate the water, and all you are left with is orange.
Sweet tangerine CAP is the second in the list. It is truly a sweet tangerine. The challenge is that the get the best flavor out of it requires high percents. High percents can create a chemical note and it does creep in a little…therefore a steep is required. Sweet Tangerine does have a little of the sharp note, but you have to really fuck up to find it.
Orange FA is the best to use when trying to add orange zest to bakeries. (recipe is below).
Bergamot FA is what I call a fancy Orange…and it for some odd reason sits to the side for me. I think because for my personal taste doesn’t fit in my ADV trip. However, I am currently developing a recipe with Bergamot/eucalyptus/oakwood…just not ready to be released.
Blood Orange/Orange RF SC…I do not find them any better than Orange FA or Blood Orange FW…actually I find the RF’s flat and not worth the price of admission. Sorry Walt, I love you, but I find them lacking. I suspect that because I steep for 4 weeks on average there is a conflict happening when mixed with other companies (like FA). This makes me sad…but I have since put these flavors in the lowest priority to mix with.
Nectarine MF was the most disappointing flavor. It just fell flat. Maybe it was a bad batch…but at this point i would not purchase again.
I have tried many orange creamsicle recipes. Each one has had the odd sharp orange note or falls flat and empty. (I am waiting for a @Beaufort_Batches recipe with royal orange to steep…I think it may just hit the spot…just gotta wait…I love you man).
Flavor Additives to fill orange vapes that are not an orange…
Juicy Peach TPA (or any other super ripe peach) at 0.5%-2%. Maybe a cap or yellow peach FA (peach inw does not work or white peach FA). Overall I like Juicey Peach because it helps to twist the sweet and bends the orange flavor without taking over).
Ripe Strawberry TPA 0.5%-2%
Cactus INW 0.15%-0.5%
Vanilla Shisha INW 0.15%-0.5%
ObaOba FA 0.25% - 1%
Things to watch out for…well…Koolada…it brings out the sharp notes from oranges…just a warning. If you have never experience the sharp note…well then…mix an orange recipe pushing the oranges and drop 1-2 droplets of koolada and that will be all you can taste.
Here is my recipe dump.
ALL of the below are designed to be steeped for at least 3 weeks. I highly recommend 4 weeks. Seriously…DO NOT SHAKE AND VAPE. I also do NOT “air” out my mixes. The “volatiles” work their way out after along steep while trying to keep everything else in the bottle. You will know if one of the following orange vapes are ready because they go from clear to light or deep orange/yellow color. If the color has not changed its not ready. It will look almost like the nic has oxidized. I cannot say it enough…steeping oranges is like steeping a custard…trust me.
Mixed at 30pg/70vg and 1.5mg nic.
There are about 7 more recipes that are not ready to be shared because they are still in testing stages. I wont post anything until after the 4-7th attempt (I’m weird like that). Since I steep at 4 weeks on average it takes me at least 4-6 months to share. Plus I am a sensitive bitch…lol. My ADV chase is at 18months…and is close…waiting on my ice cream bases to steep and need to fix a flavoring issue on the other because the first 20mls vape great and the last 10mls vapes as over flavored (I need to batch test reductions in flavorings).
Royal Orange TESTER (this is how I do single flavor testing)
Flavourart says, “The perfectly ripe flesh of a navel orange. Balance sweetness with great taste!" This is pretty accurate and what you would expect from an FA fruit. There is still the odd candy note buried within just like Orange FA that people report. Higher than 2% I suspect the sharp notes will say say high. The vape is better than most other oranges. The is still a lacking in “fullness.” I still see Orange FA better for bakery…however, I think this is FA’s best attempt to provide a workable orange.
Cutting to the chase…I see that FA’s two newest oranges can replace FW Ecto cooler/FW Blood Orange/RF SC Orange/RF SC Blood Orange.
One side note…This Naval orange in some ways I think is what Bergamot FA should have tasted like and done.
Royal Orange FA 2%
Fresh Cream FA 0.75
Marshmallow FA2% (I love my mallow)
Blood Orange TEST FA
Flavourart says, “A bright, fresh true to life blood orange flavour! Beautiful citrus married with the sweetness of blood orange finished with a faint hint of the zest of the peel.” Well I am here to say…Blood Orange FA is the best blood orange out there. My other blood oranges will go to the trash…yup. I do taste some of the same orange like notes found in Royal orange, but truly has a nice deeper blood orange on the exhale. I would be more interested in seeing what 0.15-0.25 Orange MF would do here.
Blood Orange FA 2%
Fresh Cream FA 0.75%
Marshmallow FA 2%
Twisted Jojo Sunrise
This was inspired by @JoJo recipe titled Sunrise…So yeah, Jojo is in the name. The original inspirational point was Bavarian Cream TPA 3%-Juicy Orange Cap 5%-Strawberry Ripe (sb ripe) TPA 5% (the ELR save date from 03/16/2015). I never mixed the original, but I sensed there was something good going on here and I was working with lots of different oranges and echo cooler FW. So why not start with the concept of mixing a full strawberry with the airy parts of orange.
The recipes first attempt was mixed 07/2016. It has gone through 7 versions. Mostly changes with the the ratios of FW, to adding Tangerine CAP, and lastly to adding a bit of Orange mf.
The best way I can describe it is…close your eyes…think of the flavor profile of a full glass of orange juice coating the flavor with strawberry ripe (very light) and Bavarian cream.
I do hate mixing recipes at the 19% flavoring mark. I am testing the swapping out of Tangerine and all FW with FA’s new oranges. However, I do love the below and think of Jojo every time I vape. This falls in my complete recipe folder…with a strong desire to reduce the flavorings.
Bavarian Cream DX TPA 3%
Tangerine CAP 4%
Ecto Cooler FW 5%
SB Ripe TPA 5% (pushed up sb to help with the orange spikes)
Toasted Marshmallow TPA 1.25% (to give a small underlying caramel note and to smooth orange notes)
Blood Orange FW 1% (filling the orange)
Orange MF 0.5% (you can mix it without, however, just ~3 drops/0.15 grams is magical)
This is a nice simple recipe to enjoy Sweet Tangerine CAP. I tried adding Blood Orange RF SC 1%…however, it added almost no benefit.
Sweet Tangerine CAP 8% (yup…read the flavor notes on ELR…it is true 5-8% is best)
Vanilla Bean Ice cream CAP V2 CAP 3%
Juicy Peach TPA 2% (used as the secrete filler)
Yup, in the beginning this is how i named recipes. I haven’t mixed this one for a while. I should mix with it again…still want to twist the clove so more and will soon…even as I type I am dreaming…of adding brown sugar/toasted marshmallow ect. But I must resist because I’ll stop creating this post and spend the rest of the day creating recipes. lol
Orange FA 3%
Custard FA 2%
Mandarin FA 1%
Clove FA 0.2%
Bilberry Scone w/Orange
All I can say is yum. This was based on the pick your fruit scone idea from Hic. Cookie/custard/Vienna cream does give an scone type effect. It is not a heave scone flavor, but just a good note of scone. This is the best demonstration of Orange FA in a bakery recipe to add an orange zest. This is one of the few places I mix low with bilberry and orange. IMO Bilberry or Orange cannot be replaced with any other flavor. If anything you could sub Bilberry FA with maybe Blueberry MF…but thats it. Let this one steep as long as you can…the color with darken with time…this is where I learned oranges really change color after long steep…so much so I thought there was a problem with the nic…but when vaped I was so happy.
Cookie FA 1.5%
Custard FA 1%
Vienna Cream FA 1.25%
Bilberry FA 0.8%
Orange FA 0.5%
Anyways, if you read this far…congratulations. You just learned that I can ramble on and on…that I lack in the ability to type coherent thoughts…and cant seem to grammar check my work (its amazing that I made it through college and spend all day communicating employment law/company policies).
As I sit here drinking my mocha and vaping my orange testers (blood orange is my favorite) I am very grateful to our vape family. So many people to thank the list is endless. I will post the above recipes to the other side soon.