Like i said
And there are people way more experienced than me…and that i am so grateful for, if the DIY community were full of moorons who kept there experience to themselves we would be in a sad state of affairs… so to all those in the elr community who continually give their support freely and with no expectation to the new mixer…i salute yu…
I approach it like I do baking, start small and work your way up, each flavor has its own certain strengths and its easier to add to than dilute(probably covered), also try tasting the flavor (just a drop) right from the bottle, it should give you some idea how strong it is which will help in adjusting what you could add to your taste. Personally I try every flavor I order right from the bottle before mixing.
I couldn’t agree more !! This time around I’ve been at it for a couple of months, last time I mixed, didn’t take notes,no SFT, barely any not reading etc… I finally decided to peek my head into the rabbit hole and start an exploration.“Just ask Alice, when she’s ten feet tall” taken from non other than Alice in Wonderland. LoL
I’m only at the point of doing adaptations and replacing flavors I don’t have with flavors I do in several recipes
I’m really getting a feel for what does what and how different one concentrate from ie; FA compares to TPA of the same flavor name but 2 totally different profiles. WoW, I totally just Love it !!
I’ve also pretty made the adaption of 80/20 this time around. 80% listening & only 20% talking. Instead of the opposite.
This is not a good “rule of thumb” to measure by, nor a good habit to develop IMO. Especially as a new mixer.
The reason being, while it might hold true within several (or even ‘many’) of a given brand line… It will not hold true at all across multiple brands nearly as well.
An example example of disproving it even within a single brand would be:
3% main flavour = TFA caramel original
2% supporting flavour = marshmallow
1% back note = TFA Kona Coffee or Acetyl Pyrizine or TFA Brown Sugar
Any of the three above at 1%, would dominate the others.
There are of course cases where the “formula” you’ve picked up would, and can be applied. All I’m saying is, it’s a dangerous road to try and rely on such “suggestions”, and possibly more so IMO to recommend such.
See @mixologist13… You’re not alone.
(yeah, what I said ended up being covered to some degree already. But, such is life when replying as you read. chuckles)
@Benoz Sorry mate, wasn’t trying to “hammer it into the ground”, I saw you acquiesced above (after I got there)
All good mate lol i was more just suggesting doing 3 flavour recipes. I have been doing the 3 flavour and percentages and it has really help me understand the flavours more so than single flavour testing i feel i have saved alot of time and money dont get me wrong its not a 100% sure fire way but i have had results especially when i only had 15 flavours to work with but i do understand were everyone is coming from and if the flavour is to high you will know about it
I have actually mixed a similar recipe to this and it was nice after a good steep think i used biscuit tho at 1%
Think i will take this on bord i seem to get shut down abit i never new i was so unconventional sometimes
Oh hell no don’t do that, your one of the top ten DIYers that I follow and read and take in your advice. I think your suggestions and knowledge are quite valuable.
Keep on keeping on Benoz
A wise man once told me. Sometimes it is better to remain silent and let people wonder, rather that speak and prove that you’re and idiot. Not to imply that your an idiot, just a funny statement for all to enjoy.
I like your posts too, don’t go quiet on us.
So many tips and tricks…Thank you all for your advice.
The 123 idea can be usefull for me I think. What If I take 3 distinctly different flavours like: watermelon, pear and marzipan, would I not be able to tell which one is taking the upperhand? It might not be the best method but its something to tryout and for the moment everything helps. Yesterday I started SFT and today I’ll be doing more. The notes I find on the flavour datasheets are not that easy to interpret. One says: use 20% sinle flavour and two persons below states: this is a strong aroma use only up to 3%. I think the best way for me will be SFT and some 3 flavour recipes. I also tried 100% PG and 100% VG as a SFT to get an idea what they bring to the mix. For me PG tastes a bit mediciny (medicine like) (auch, for things like this my english is a bit lackig), the VG had a sweet tone on the inhale but no other taste. My watermelon which was nasty at 10% is a lot better at 3% but I left the nicotine out so more testing required. I wanted to post my SFT adventure on the forum, but don’t know in which thread. Maybe just do it here?
Thank you all for the 2 cents you are giving me (at this rate I will be rich by christmas)lol
If you get something sweet/sour/salty/bitter/chemical/soapy/floral/… from a recipe, which flavor is giving you that? How are you to know how to adjust the % to deal with it? IMO, this is making it yourself much harder.
SFT is the fastest and cheapest way to learn about flavors but yes, it’s not free and it takes a little of your time and effort. It’s also not that expensive to make a 10ml tester. You don’t have to add nic either for flavor tests.
didn’t think about that, I guess SFT it will be
Have you hit the what can i make button to see what pops up?
Yes I did, but with the choices I made when I bought my flavors, there are not too many recipes to make
Next month I will order some more.
It’s not because you don’t have the exact flavors that you can’t make certain recipes. Lots of people here substitute flavors.
You can often substitute a strawberry for a blueberry, or simply another strawberry. It won’t be the same result, but that doesn’t mean what you make isn’t good.
When you substitute flavors, be sure to look at both flavor pages, look at the median use for those flavors and calculate how much of your substitute you should use to have a bit of a similar end result.
What you’ve noted here is one of the newbie’s biggest obstacles (along with deciding which brand and flavors to buy).
The key to deciphering and understanding the percentages (both SF and mixing) will primarily come in time, and quicker if you SF test.
What you need to bear in mind while looking over those notes though, is that vaping styles vary a great deal as does the hardware being used.
Someone may have poor taste buds (due to eating especially spicy foods for instance) and may have damaged their receptors, so they need more flavor to taste it.
They may also be using MTL, and because this manner of vaping takes in less vapor per draw, more flavor is often needed to achieve the same sense of saturation (than would be needed in a DL [read as: sub ohm] device).
Since higher amounts of vapor are produced in DL devices, it’s not uncommon for this style of vaper to use less flavoring than someone who prefers MTL. Since more vapor is produced, it often takes less flavor to reach the same level of saturation (satisfaction) than what MTL user might need.
Temperature. Even the preference of what temperature is used can affect the percentages of flavoring desired.
And all of this has not even begun to address the differences in potency between manufacturers, or even specific flavors within a line… (For instance, a given manufacturer may typically require 4-6%, but then they may have certain flavors that only need 1-2%, otherwise things start to taste wrong.)
These things will only come with time. But as you read and test, make sure to watch for users whose opinions you find fall in line with your own. Then you can start to mix what they mix OR at least gain additional insights into how they mix, or why they mix what they do!
It just hit me, one of my PD symptoms is decreased sense of smell, my doctor had me sniff pungent foods and when I did i realized I have lost my sense of smell. all this time I have been noticing a lot of the mixes I have tried come out flat and lack flavor, (i thought they were mixing for drippers) especially after a long steep, and more so if I vape the same flavor for a long duration.
I find just the opposite works better as far as e-liquid, I look always to the highest % i see in the suggested SF and % mix and start there, If i mix juice and it has too much flavor I can dilute that with a blank base and just shake. But once I add flavors I feel the need to re-steep.
I can tell after a year if the liquid turns black and still tastes too strong it may have too much flavor.
This realization also explains why people look at my juices and say “thats alot of chocolate” and similar comments on most of my juices, and they taste great to me at my higher %.
edit: the reason I first created my calculator was to ‘turn up’ everyone’s under flavored liquids to get the flavor up where I could taste it. I do mix for a tank, dripper folks seem to mix way lower. I can tell if a juice has too much flavor by the color and the feel of the flavors on my palate. many of my own tests i thought were too strong at first were fine after a long steep.
I would argue that you should add the nic as with nic you can see how the steep/milliard reaction changes the flavor over time…