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[REQ] 13th floor elevapors Django


I have been vaping for about 2 months and initially bought a huge range of flavors ( 30+) to find which type i liked best. Someone suggested Django 3% Nic and it immediately became my favorite. I tried 10+ other tobacco flavours and hated all of them… Django was the king, so i bought some 12%…Not as nice as the 3%…so i bought some 6%…still not as nice…Then i bought some 0% to mix down the others! Getting it to 4.5% is the best so far…That said i notice that it changes a little over time.

For anyone interested, the other flavours i really like are Space jam, Blaque Original, and my all time fave at the moment …Apple Butter.

I tried the other 2 flavours from 13thFloor and was not overly impressed, which was a little disappointing.


Hello To all
I am sharing the tobacco flavors I used and are the following
Tobacco - The Flavor Apprentice
RY4 Asian (TPA)
RY4 Double (TPA)
RY4 (FA)
Gold Ducat (Inawera)
capella smooth tobacco
capella bold tobacco

The only 2 that might work with another tobacco flavor that I am not sure is RY4D and FA RY4 the other flavors are completely out…


The real deal???


first off, thank you @Daniel33 for sharing which tobacco strains aren’t so good - i was glad to hear RY4 double and FA RY4 are pretty close, as i was thinking the same… like i said, i have INW RY4 but haven’t sampled it yet

as for this clone recipe; it’s looking very cool - although it seems quite “tobacco heavy” - i cannot remember the hangsen flue cured that well, perhaps 2% is all she needs.

i will be purchasing INW vanilla for pipe as soon as i can, as i am very tempted to try this one.

not sure if it’s close at all, though, perhaps @horizonism can share his wisdom on this one or maybe @Seakow will hopefully see this thread and chip in some knowledge!

either way, excellent find - and very interesting!


Some interesting developments here. Good to see…

The “clone” recipe posted by @Daniel33 looks interesting. The lack of any butterscotch makes me think it’s not quite right though. Coincidentally, I was about to order INW Vanilla for Pipe in my next order, as the various reviews I’ve found for it look like it might fit the profile for Django.

I’ve been hitting brick walls with tobacco concentrate testing.
In recent test batches, I’ve personally ruled out the following as primary tobacco notes:

  • Tobacco Absolute Garuda (Inawera)
  • Tobacco Absolute Virginia (Inawera)

I’m not saying either of those aren’t present in Django, just that they’re definitely not forming the primary tobacco note. Moreover, my feeling - and I might be wrong - is that 13th Floor won’t have bothered creating a complex blend of tobacco concentrates for Django. They’ll have found the one that works as the primary note, and used that. At the very most, they might have backed it up with one other tobacco concentrate, but I’m not even sure they’d bother with that. (This theory is established from looking at the various other “premium” e juice recipes that have been disclosed / leaked over the past year or so, all of which seem to follow very simple principles.)

I’ve noticed that whatever tobacco is being used in Django, it actually seems to have its own inherent sweetness, which is why Vanilla for Pipe seems like it might be a good fit.

I ran some single flavour testers on all the butterscotch concentrates I own. Side by side comparison with Django, and there’s no doubt in my mind that the main butterscotch note is coming from Butterscotch Ripple (FW).

The aroma from the bottle however, is very slightly richer, suggesting either some dark caramel or another butterscotch. It might be FA Caramel or FA Butterscotch (each around 0.5%), but as a quick test, I added one drop of FLV Butterscotch (0.1-0.2%) to my Butterscotch Ripple tester, and it’s scarily close to Django.

If FLV Butterscotch is being used, it’s gonna be an extremely small amount. In my tests, anything over 0.25% produces a much darker liquid than Django.

I haven’t actually got FA Butterscotch (I think it’s the only other widely-used Butterscotch I don’t own), so I can’t say for certain whether or not it’s being used as a back note, but I’m very confident that if you’re looking to get an almost identical Butterscotch profile, then this combination will get you there:

Butterscotch Ripple (FW) 3.5%**
Butterscotch (Flavorah) 0.15%

**The Butterscotch Ripple might even be as high as 4-5%

I’m still not exactly sure what’s being used here. My current thinking is that the butter note in the butterscotch component is being accentuated by the vanilla component. The best candidate for this, via the simplest route, would be Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (TPA), perhaps somewhere around 3%. I’d be hesitant to go much higher, as the cream doesn’t feel particularly rich / dense / heavy in Django, though it definitely has some ice cream-type notes.

I’m doing my best to simplify things as much as possible, as I think it makes the process much easier. With this in mind, my next two test batches (once I receive Vanilla for Pipe) will be something like this:

Django clone v20
Butterscotch (Flavorah) 0.15%
Butterscotch Ripple (FW) 3.5%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (TPA) 3%
Vanilla Cupcake (CAP) 1%
Vanilla for Pipe (INAWERA) 2%**
Vienna Cream (FA) 1.5%

(** not sure about the percentage for Vanilla for Pipe until I test it. 2% might be way too strong, but we’ll see.)

The above recipe uses a slightly modified version of the Milkshake Base by Vurve on Reddit for the “Vanilla Milk” component. This might be slightly wrong, as far as the clone goes, but it’s a good base which has worked for me in other recipes, so it’s a good place to start.

The second version will use a simplified Vanilla base:

Django clone v21
Butterscotch (Flavorah) 0.15%
Butterscotch Ripple (FW) 3.5%
Cream Fresh (FA) 2%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (TPA) 3%
Vanilla for Pipe (INAWERA) 2%

Those worried about DA/AP levels could sub in French Vanilla (TPA) 1% + Vanilla Bean Gelato (TPA) 2% in place of Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (TPA).

This is frustrating work, and I’m often not sure if it’s worth it, but I’m hoping that at the very least, we can create something at least close to Django that we all enjoy as a substitute.


hey @horizonism - nice to see you back in the thread, mate

sincerely appreciate your extensive contribution to this and your detailed notes - as i am still fairly new to DIY it’s valuable to know your thought process here, and especially sharing your experience with the flavours you have in stock

happy to hear i was on the right track with butterscotch ripple (fw) - as i only bought this on a whim, and going by the flavour pages on this site it seemed to be fitting

(same with dulce de leche arguably, but i will avoid using that for now as i believe it’s a dud here…)

i have been vaping django again as well, and each time it makes me feel as though the tobacco element is muted by the rest… not sure if their “flue cured” pitch is just simply that, a sales point. i doubt there to be anything flue cured in there as far as the flavourings go on the current market, unless they devised their own (doubtful)

this is why i thought something like ry4 would be appropriate as it compliments the vanilla and caramel profiles inherently; and this is something i will go for on my next attempt

( and yes, i am now officially back in the game :slight_smile: )

i find it great you are taking this seriously; especially after 15 revisions since the sinaloa days - impressive dedication, bruv!

it will definitely be worth getting something similar to django, although to echo my previous post - it’s a tiresome task but levels us all up in terms of experience, and i for one am here to learn (and of course save some previous £s/$s along the way)

your anti-DA/AP alternative is appreciated, and i’m going to go for the following in my next attempt:

3.5% - Butterscotch Ripple (FW)
0.5% - Butterscotch (FA)
1% - Caramel (FA)
1% - French Vanilla (TFA)
2% - Vanilla Bean Gelato (TFA)
2% - Vanilla for Pipe (INW) - and going by the page on the flavour here, 2% might be just about right - http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavor/38931
3% - RY4 (INW) vs. RY4 Double (TFA)

i will probably go for both of these RY4s just to experiment and see how they differ… RY4 (INW) is just “for the fuck of it” but let’s see - if anything, it might save you a few $s to save you trying it for yourself.

i fear RY4 is entirely absent from Django, but hope that at a lower % it will compliment the vanilla & butterscotch and level that (almost muted) tobacco

this makes me think the clone posted in the recipes section here is a dud, it looks too tobacco heavy, and i am still fairly certain the hangsen flue is a false positive.

anyway - will mix these up as soon as i press reply, and will post my findings here :slight_smile:

looking forward to further discussion!


Daniel contacted me about my version. Didn’t realize there were others out there trying to clone Django as well. As I told Daniel I’m 90% positive it’s HS Flue Cured. I agree with everyone else that it’s RY4 Double giving off the caramel. I went with Cream Fresh and INW Vanilla for Pipe to get the vanilla milk as I think Cream Fresh is the most authentic milk flavor. I also love vanilla for pipe so this being a tobacco heavy flavor I figured it couldn’t hurt(it most definitely does not). Vanilla Custard to round everything out and give it some weight. I’ll have to go buy a bottle as I don’t recall there being a butterscotch flavor, but that may be exactly what I feel mine is missing. I’ll make a bottle tomorrow and maybe add some FW Butterscotch Ripple. My version is pretty damn close in my opinion and I urge you all to try it. If you have and suggestions or comments after you’ve tried please feel free to contact me. If you don’t think it’s close enough with my version you’ll at least end up with a couple of really fantastic flavors. Thanks guys!


thank you @Seakow for getting involved in this madness, appreciate your post and contribution.

my thoughts on this subject have indeed been steeping themselves, and after two weeks of my revised mixes (listed below) i have made some notes and have some thoughts on the development of my attempts…

first off - i was a complete fuckwit and forgot to label the two tester bottles (inw ry4 and ry4 double) however, ry4 double is quite a distinct flavour and it was fairly easy to decipher which was which. it is safe to say that inw ry4 is not at play in django, and gave a little “hay” like flavour to the rest, which was neither welcomed or appreciated.

as a reminder, my mix was as follows:

3.5% - Butterscotch Ripple (FW)
0.5% - Butterscotch (FA)
1% - Caramel (FA)
1% - French Vanilla (TFA)
2% - Vanilla Bean Gelato (TFA)
2% - Vanilla for Pipe (INW)
3% - RY4 Double (TFA)

Not that much difference between the two, really, but that might be due to the other concentrates used alongside them. I have only used 3% of these tobacco’s, and neither hit the nail on the head as far as whatever is used in django. This is, however, the better of the two tester bottles and is a more pleasant vape. Perhaps @Seakow is right,and hangsen is indeed the answer… but this is quite nice anyway, and I would vape it if django did not exist :slight_smile:

Furthermore, the caramel flavour is just too “light” and “sweet” in my version, and still lacks a lot of depth and body. This is the question, how to deepen it and give weight to the caramel tones.

Furthermore, the colour of the liquid for both bottles is too light. Django is quite dark amber, and these do not match it at all. Makes me think there is something obvious at play here, and the colouring might narrow down the choices - vanilla bourbon, or maybe even brown sugar in small %s? Fuck knows…

I made a random version the next day (20th December) and it’s as follows, but I do not think it will be any closer:

3.5% - Butterscotch Ripple (FW)
0.5% - Butterscotch (FA)
1% - Caramel (FA)
1% - Vanilla Bourbon (TFA)
1.5% - Sweet Cream (DX)
2% - Vanilla for Pipe (INW)
3% - RY4 Double (TFA)

I might remove the FA flavours and add Caramel (CAP v2) which is reputedly quite a strong caramel to see if it plays better. I think the FA flavours make it too sweet of a butterscotch/caramel.

Thoughts welcome, I am interested to know how the rest of you are getting on @horizonism @Daniel33 (and hopefully better than me…!) :ram:


Happy New Year to All!!!

@carnage0 I have mixed something very similar with your initial double mix on your post and waiting for it to steep.
4% Butterscotch Ripple (FW)
2% Vanilla for Pipe (INW)
1,5% Cream Fresh (FA)
2% Vienna Cream (FA)
4% RY4D in one mix and 4% RY4 (FA) in a second one
Will let it steep 1 more week and let you know the findings

I really believe that most of the eliquid producers tent to use the majority of their flavors from one brand. Meaning that I lean towards using more FA flavors as I believe that they might be the ones used in Django.
That said I tested in the last recipe RY4 from FA which smells like the tobacco in Django but will let you know in week if it is similar.
Also, I have vanilla bourbon which is dark and can give the color you mentioned, but also have French vanilla from FA which is also that dark and might give it a go in my next test.




nice one @Daniel33, and a happy new year to you too bruv!

i think one thing we are overlooking here is the possibility of MTS Vape Wizard (FA) - this will certainly darken up a mix, and if you are correct in thinking that 13th floor bulk buy from FA then this might be one of the missing ingredients.

looking forward to learning how your mix goes, especially with the FA RY4.

more power!


Thanks to all (@carnage0, @Daniel33, and @Seakow) for continuing to work on this. It’s been a tricky ride.

I’ve single-flavour-tested every tobacco concentrate I own over the past week or so. Exasperating work, with no positive results at all. Brief, summarised notes from my notebook:

INW Virginia (TA)
Too bitter and dark and too cig-like to be the primary note in Django
INW Garuda (TA)
Rich tobacco leaves w/ full mouthfeel, but again, too cig-alike to be used in Django
FA Cuban Supreme
Leafy, somewhat thin-tasting (not really reminiscent of Django)
FA Desert Ship
Off-tasting, tobacco-ish flavour w/ soy sauce + jalapenos? (not Django!)
Hangsen Flue Cured
"Brown-tasting" - way too dark & bitter to be the primary note in Django. Ruined so many mixes!
INW Vanilla for Pipe
VERY HONEY TASTING. Way too sweet to be in Django. Too cloying. Honey. Not vanilla.

I didn’t even bother single flavour testing FA Burley, as it found its way into one of the older clone attempts (v17 or so) and I concluded that it should die in a fire.

I basically gave up on ever finding the main tobacco note. I even sent 13th floor a desperate message on instagram pleading for them to disclose (even cryptically) at least the manufacturer of the “flue cured tobacco” used in Django.


So I continued my research, and I think I may have found the answer (more on that later, and don’t get your hopes up - it’s still a wing and a prayer…)

In the meantime, I revisited my most recent versions a few days ago, and after finding that versions 20-27 were ALL completely ruined by the involvement of any of the tobacco concentrates I used, I began a slightly different approach to development.

I decided to take what we’ve already learnt, and what I’ve learnt elsewhere in other projects, and apply it, to simply building the most delicious, balanced, “vanilla milk and caramel” recipe ever created. My thinking was that at least then we’ll have a good foundation from which to build, and something truly delicious to vape on while we collectively spend every penny we own on every tobacco concentrate under the sun (none of which we’ll ever use again, after realising it’s not “the one”) in our attempt at finding the stupid f**king one that’s used in Django.

Vanilla Milk & Caramel

So we know Django has Butterscotch. I’d say more butterscotch than caramel. (Sniff the bottle and tell me it ain’t so.) It’s also got a very distinct, forward and full-bodied vanilla thing going on. No “light milk”. That’s custard right there. CAP Vanilla Custard. Nothing else I own fulfils that profile. Hell, 13th floor even clued us in on the custard element via twitter (I know that’s a stretch, but stay with me.) It’s also very well-rounded. A balanced profile that doesn’t really get old, however much you vape it.

This was something that was distinctly lacking in almost every version I’d created. There was always a hollow-ness, or a thin mouthfeel, or too much sweetness, cloyingness, or not enough richness etc.

And from all the other cream / milkshake / custard recipes I’ve tried and created, I’ve established that a balanced “vanilla milk” recipe isn’t really possible with just 3-4 concentrates. It really needs some extra help from certain elements to round it all out. So that’s what I’ve done here.

Django v28 (base minus tobacco)

% Vendor Flavor
(FLV) Butterscotch
(FW) Butterscotch Ripple
(FA) Carmel (caramel)
(FA) Cream Fresh
(FA) Marshmallow
(FA) Meringue
(CAP) Vanilla Bean Ice Cream
(CAP) Vanilla Custard
(FA) Vienna Cream
**STEEP TIME:** 7 days min. (though it's ridiculously delicious as a shake n vape, I entreat you to make two bottles and let one sit while you vape the other one - that's what I'm doing right now.)

Breaking it down…

FLV Butterscotch / FW Butterscotch Ripple / FA Caramel

This is the “caramel” in our “vanilla milk and caramel”. The top note. It’s more butterscotch than caramel, as is Django. I remember an old version where I upped FA Caramel to 1%, and I think this should be avoided. The reason being that there’s at least anecdotal evidence out there (I’ve also experienced it) that FA Caramel can mute flavours over time. So we stick with 0.5% for that. (I doubt 13th Floor would want something muting the flavours in Django over time, but this is just my intuition.) The other elements can be played around with a bit (perhaps upping Butterscotch Ripple to 3%, or swapping out FLV Butterscotch for FA Butterscotch, but I’m really pretty happy with them exactly where they are. (Note: the “rich” butterscotch flavour present in Django doesn’t match my experience of FA Butterscotch, but I may not have steeped it long enough to be sure.)

FA Cream Fresh / FA Marshmallow / FA Meringue / FA Vienna Cream

This is the “milk”. The middle note. We don’t want any sour notes from Cream Fresh, so we keep it at 0.5%. Marshmallow is at the same percentage to slightly sweeten, and add a nice, rich mouthfeel, and thicken up the vapour, without adding any overt marshmallow notes. Meringue at 0.5% ups the creaminess of the milk, whilst adding in a little more sweetness. And Vienna Cream provides the base here, adding sweetened milk notes when used around 1.25%, whilst also holding everything together, and preventing the next cream base from becoming too cloying and separated…

CAP Vanilla Bean Ice Cream / CAP Vanilla Custard

This is the “vanilla”. It’s the base; the foundation of the entire recipe. These low percentages prevent it from falling into full-on ice cream or custard. This recipe really needs these two elements. Without it, we’ve just got a slightly thin, sweet milk sitting on air. VBIC and VC together add a rich under-belly to everything, rounding out the profile, and providing a full body of vanilla cream for everything to sit on. (Note: You could sub in TFA VBIC here at the same percentage; I’ve got one version steeping with it, as I ran out of CAP VBIC, and I think it’ll still work. Though I think I prefer CAP VBIC for this, as the TFA version can add in too many potential “off” notes and perhaps slightly muddy the profile with the complexities it brings to the table.) CAP VBIC is rich, creamy, and vanilla-forward, which just works perfectly here.

I know @carnage0 has issues with diacetyl. (Sorry bro!) So for him, and anyone else who has similar concerns, I’d suggest subbing in Vanilla Bean Gelato 1% and French Vanilla 0.5% in place of VBIC, and use CAP VC V2 in place of V1, though bear in mind the latter will obviously significantly increase optimal steep time (3-4 weeks min.) to get it out of the butyric acid / smells like dirty socks stage. I’ve not tried either of those subs, so YMMV.

That said, I’d seriously recommend that even those who have issues with DA/AP just make an exception this time and try this recipe exactly as it is. Think of it as a special treat for your tastebuds, and only vape it on a new moon or something.

Tobacco what?!

So now we’ve got a ridiculously amazing base from which to work. It’s very, very close to the base in Django. It might not be identical, but at this point, I don’t really care, as it’s f**king delicious. With that done, we can move on to the odious task of locating the stupid tobacco concentrate. Like I said above, it’s not any of the concentrates I own. I also don’t think it’s RY4 (of any brand), though I’m definitely interested in @Daniel33’s results with FA RY4, and am very appreciative of @carnage0’s notes on avoiding INW RY4.

During one of many drawn out, seemingly random but obviously carefully-calculated searches on the google-machine, I came across some flavour notes for FA Shade. Listen to this…

“the best way I can describe Shade is a lite, grassy, leafy & somewhat earthy tobacco essence with a mellow almost vanilla like sweetness to it, that’s probably why it works so well with vanilla & RY4 type recipes. I have one RY4 recipe that everyone who has tried it says its delicious. I use 3-5% Shade (usually 3% but some days I want more tobacco essence, steeping is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for tobacco mixes, I can’t stress that enough, I can almost guarantee that the people who say 10% isn’t strong enough either didn’t steep or didn’t steep long enough, or they had vapers tongue, you need a minimum of 3 days steep time but 10 days to 2-3wks is best, the flavors completely change & POP out & richen with proper steeping)”

Thanks for the notes @Pro_Vapes!

and: “It is a mellow, sweet tobacco - light and sort-of ‘bright’. The sweetness is more of a light sugar (as opposed to dark or caramel). It’s difficult to describe. It pairs very well with creams, vanillas, honey, banana, butterscotch, etc. I usually use it in the 1%-3% range.”

Thanks for the notes @manthe!

Wing and a prayer, like I said. But the description alone has me excited. And there’s many more reviews on vendor sites which match those descriptions, along with a few that completely contradict it, but I’m gonna ignore the bad reviews because I feel like it. I’m very wary of FA tobacco concentrates, having had traumatic experiences with them in the past. But I’m definitely gonna be adding this to my next order. If any of you have had any experience with it at all, let me know asap. Otherwise, I’ll be ordering it within a few days…

And when it arrives, I plan on adding somewhere around 2-3% to this beautiful vanilla milk and caramel base, and then hiding it in a cupboard for 3 weeks with my fingers crossed. What’s the worst that could happen?! :confused:


@horizonism maaaan hahah you’re really pushing the average words per post here, jesus christ mate… :smile:

you’re right about inw vanilla for pipe, i had the same experience… it adds too much sweetness to the ensemble. django has a dark edge to it which the vanilla for pipe seems to usurp somehow.

i sincerely doubt any inw ingredient is present in the mix, it just doesn’t make sense.

plus really, really appreciate your detailed notes here as the more tobacco concentrates we simply rule out, the better. the hangsen flue cured was a pain in the arse though i have to admit; it was the one i ordered thinking “this could be it!” with another “flue cured” concentrate which was more honey than anything else i’ve ever vaped (from a uk vendor, cannot even remember which…)

i have to admit, @horizonism, i did laugh a few times with your diacetyl & a/ap comments :smile: but i’m sticking to my guns for the time being and attempting to be a purist on such issues as much as i can. the more i’ve vaped the legit django, the more i feel there are too many warning signs popping up with every inhale - even dreaming of the ! symbol on the concentrate listings on ELR itself and waking up in a cold sweat. (that was a joke, thankfully)

i guess this adds more to the challenge for me personally, but i’m far from throwing in the towel - and it seems like you’re in it for the long haul too @horizonism! you’ve invested time, liquid, and dare i say keystrokes.

but without digression, shade certainly sounds interesting… if shade is the missing ingredient here, then @Daniel33 is most likely to be entirely correct with the rest of the list being FA concentrates.

i’ve gone down the (mostly) TFA/TPA (war)path here, and have devised a few blindfolded recipes i’ll mix tomorrow (expect another post from me with those on, as my subconscious is currently churning those away and modifying them a shitload…)

however, vanilla bourbon will be present in all three. it’s because it gives the mix i made earlier the exact colour that django holds. the one thing holding that mix back was the vanilla for pipe honey essence which drove me crazy (i thought it was the FA caramel/butterscotch combo at first…

that mix was

3.5% - Butterscotch Ripple (FW)
0.5% - Butterscotch (FA)
1% - Caramel (FA)
1% - Vanilla Bourbon (TFA)
1.5% - Sweet Cream (DX) (TFA)
2% - Vanilla for Pipe (INW)
3% - RY4 Double (TFA)

it’s a pretty damn tidy vape in all honesty, but a little too sweet.

your base mix sounds really tasty @horizonism, and i’ll think i’ll make my own “dx/v2” version as i think i’d only need to up the butterscotch ripple in attempt to replace the flv butterscotch and replace the custard with v2.

eagerly looking forward to hearing what @Daniel33 has to say about FA concentrates, as i think it’s also very likely to be close…

as for the worst that can happen? they say a picture says a thousand words…

but in all honesty, the worst is that we move on, learn, experience, grow as a person, and take a step closer to vaping valhalla…

i’ll be back tomorrow to post my three blind mice mix trio, as i like to take that stab in the dark approach which is not so logical, but fuck it…


alright guys, as promised - my “three blind mice” - no idea how they’ll turn out… they’re certainly not as elaborate, researched, or dare i say as “intelligent” compared @horizonism 's base, but we’ll see how they float (or sink) in a few weeks:

:mouse: :mouse: :mouse:

1 - Shot in the dark. :dark_sunglasses:

3.5% - Butterscotch Ripple (FW)
0.5% - Butterscotch (FA)
1.5% - Caramel (FA)
2% - Vanilla Bourbon (TFA)
2% - French Vanilla Creme (TFA)
3% - RY4 Double (TFA)
= 12.5%

An elaborated version from the best of the previous - FTW (Fuck The World, as opposed to For The Win) Banjo. Slight modification to the cream, changing it to crème and upping the Vanilla Bourbon.

2 - Stab in the Dark. :dagger:

3% - RY4 Double (TFA) - 3%
1.5% - Milk (DX) (TFA) - 1.5%
2% - French Vanilla Crème (TFA) - 2%
2% - Caramel (TFA) - 2%
3.5% - Butterscotch Ripple (FW) - 3.5%
2% - Vanilla Bourbon (TFA) - 2%
= 14%

Attempt at enhanced vanilla milk, have never used TFA Caramel but hope it works with the other TFA flavours.

3 - Hail Mary in the Dark. :coffin: :end:
3% - RY4 Double (TFA)
2% - Vanilla Bourbon (TFA)
2% - Dulce De Leche (JF)
3% - Butterscotch Ripple (FW)
2% - Caramel v2 (CAP)
3% - Vanilla Swirl (TFA)
1% - Malted Milk (TFA)
= 15%

An excuse to use Dulce De Leche (JF) to see if it works well as a caramel with v2 (CAP), also Malted Milk (TFA) to smooth and maybe even add a milky element, although I doubt it - never used either flavour before, so this is just for a laugh.

Anyway, keeping it steady with RY4 (Double) (TFA) for now, as I still suspect it might be used in Django - but mainly because of the Caramel and Vanilla notes present therein.

The saga continues :ram: :sheep:


jesus… going by the initial “aromas” (if you can call them that in this case) of bottles 2 and 3, i’d say they are both a write-off already! hahah

i think i will end up joining @Daniel33 on a purely FA route pretty soon…!


Hello all!

Unfortunately after a long steep FA RY4 isn’t a match for Django.

My latest attempt which I just tried a couple of minutes ago side by side with Django was the following (based on Django v28 from @horizonism)
4% FW Butterscotch ripple
0,5% TPA Caramel original
1% FA Cream Fresh
0,5% TPA Meringue
1% CAP Vanilla Custard V2
1% FA Vienna Cream

It is a nice vape, but this has nothing to do with it…

I can also confirm that INW Vanilla for Pipe has nothing to do with Django in an attemp I did.

I was thinking to try the following

  1. Burley Tobacco by FA as the description is
    FlavourArt succeeded in bringing together the sun, the breeze, and the fragrance of Kentucky. Burley is a rich and smooth blend of specific flavours with delicate floral undertones.
    Not sure about the floral, but the Django description says Kentucky tobacco so I will have a go as soon as I receive the order
  2. Black Fire from FA

I suppose that SOHO isn’t the one in Django from a test done with the single flavor…

Also I was thinking MAYBE 13th floor took the Jango recipe from seduce juice and altered it to make their own. I asked seduce juice about it and they told they stopped make it 2,5 years ago due to shortage of a flavor

The recipe is:
ACV 0.3%
Black mile + (ECX) 4%
Chocolate double clear (TFA) 2%
Graham Cracker clear (TFA) 2%
Milkstone (see below) 1.5%
Tuscan Reserve Ultimate (FA) 4%
Vanilla Bourbon (TFA) 2.5%

pre-steeped Cream Base (milkstone)
PG 25%
Bavarian Cream (TFA) 45%
Coconut Extra (TFA) 20%
Sweet Cream (TFA) 10%

I think that there is no chocolate in there as well as no coconut extra…


Lol. Good work @carnage0 & @Daniel33 - all of those recipes look tasty in their own right, whether they’re Django or not. My versions with Shade (FA) were a nice vape, but definitely not Django. Shade (FA) is extremely sweet, with only subtle tobacco notes. When mixed with my latest caramel vanilla milk base, it was like eating a bucket of cotton candy and sticking a tobacco leaf in each ear. Tasty, but not right.

Big news. 13th Floor finally responded to me on Instagram. Here’s the conversation:

horizonism: Aw, come on! :confused: Not even a cryptic clue? Here’s where I’ve got so far:
Butterscotch (Flavorah) 2%
Butterscotch Ripple (FW) 3%
Caramel (FA) 0.5%
Cream Fresh (FA) 0.5%
Holy Vanilla (DIYFS) 1%
Meringue (FA) 0.5%
Shade (FA) 2%
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 1.5%
Vanilla Swirl (TPA) 3%
Vienna Cream (FA) 1%

It’s my 31st attempt. I’m almost certain you’re not using Shade (FA), as it appears too overtly sweet, and am now thinking perhaps Golden Rollie (FA) or Virginia (FA) or even RY4 (FA)?

13thfloorelevapors: Sorry I missed this. The tobacco that we use is an actual tobacco from Kentucky distilled in pg from a vendor who makes only small batches. To be honest I’m pretty sure we swoop up everything he makes now a days haha. The flavors are close. You got 2 correct. No V1 flavors!

So @carnage0 was right all along about the lack of DA/AP! The fact that they said “No V1 flavors” is a massive give-away; they essentially admitted they’re using at least some Capella flavors in the mix, as it’s only CAP who use the v2 denomination to denote DA/AP-free concentrates.

Really kinda surprised I only got two correct. But this really helps narrow down our target. If they’re deliberately using v2 flavors, we can pretty much guarantee they won’t be using any concentrates that are publicly known to contain DA/AP. So if there are any TFA concentrates in there, they’ll be using the DX versions. I’m personally now 100% certain that CAP Vanilla Custard v2 is in there. As for the other concentrate that was correct in the recipe I sent them, we’re gonna have to guess. My guess would be Butterscotch Ripple (FW). We can now work by deduction.

I’d suggest we all use CAP Vanilla Custard v2 in all future mixes, and use logic and intuition to narrow down the other components. (I’m going to continue using v1, as I don’t have v2 right now, and I like how v1 steeps a little quicker, but I’ll be adding v2 to my next order).

As for the elephant in the room - the tobacco, I guess we might have to admit defeat here. At least as far as getting the exact tobacco note correct. Since they told me it’s essentially a NET (Naturally Extracted Tobacco), I’ve researched the hell out of the topic, and concluded that the best route for us to explore will probably be to just start making our own NETs.

Notice how they say “the tobacco that we use is an actual tobacco from Kentucky distilled in pg”.

My research has told me that Kentucky tobacco is usually not actually from Kentucky. The majority of tobacco grown in Kentucky is Virginia. The majority of Virginia is flue-cured. Kentucky tobacco itself is usually fire-cured. The best, unadulterated Kentucky blend available apparently tends to be grown in Africa. (Kendal Kentucky from Gawith Hoggarth.) So the “flue-cured” element from the vendor’s flavour description might turn out to be another obvious clue, pointing us to a Virginia which is flue-cured, but happens to be grown in Kentucky.

My first idea was to see if I could find a high quality flue-cured Virginia concentrate that is also a NET, but the general consensus seems to be that all Virginia concentrates, be they TAs or NETs, are simply no match for a homemade NET.

I then considered buying some pre-made NET extract from www.naturally-extracted-tobacco.com, - this one in particular looks like a good match - but the price and potential problems with shipping from the US to the UK (customs etc.) is currently putting me off.

So my current thinking is to simply make my own NET. It’s notable that Django doesn’t seem to gunk coils. Most NETs are notorious for gunking coils pretty fast. So this gives us a clue about the production process for the NET used in Django. I read almost the entire subreddit dedicated to NET production, and concluded that making a NET that doesn’t gunk coils is close to impossible without seriously expensive equipment (sub-micron filters etc.), but that the best you could possibly manage within your own home would be to use a PGA (Pure Grain Alcohol) extraction process, combined with the finest filters you can get your hands on.

PGA is obviously not available in the UK, so the best I could do was to buy some Spirytus Monopolowy 95% ABV Vodka, which I’ll use in the first stage of extraction, for which I’ll be following this guide, and this one for filtering. (I already have an AeroPress coffee maker, so that saves me a little hassle / expense.)

As for the actual tobacco I’ll be using, I’ll most likely start with a small amount of the purest Virginia available from my local tobacconist, and then buy some Virginia Flue Cured Whole Leaf when I’ve next got some spare money sitting around.

A few extra notes on the other elements in the recipe:
The fact that Django doesn’t appear to gunk coils might be a good clue to help us further narrow down the list of potential components. I had been thinking that the deeper butterscotch notes were actually coming from the caramel concentrate being used, rather than another butterscotch (many of which contain DA/AP). If this were so, the best candidate would probably be TFA Caramel (Original) DX, but I’m aware that it contains corn syrup, which I know can lead to coil gunkage, so perhaps the best alternative would be Caramel (CAP), which is apparently DA/AP free, and doesn’t contain corn syrup / sugars. The only problem is that it’s not very nice. :confused: Regardless, I’m going to try using Caramel (CAP), as the primary Caramel component in the next few attempts, along with CAP VC for the vanilla, maybe with a little help from French Vanilla (TPA), and perhaps some DX Sweet Cream for the “milk” component, and some DX Bavarian Cream to help hold things together.

I sent this updated recipe to 13th Floor on Instagram, and asked if I was any closer, but I’ve heard nothing back yet:

Django v32.2 (DA/AP free)
Butterscotch Ripple (FW) 3%
Caramel v2 (CAP) 2%
DX Bavarian Cream (TPA) 1%
DX Sweet Cream (TPA) 1.5%
French Vanilla (TPA) 1%
Flue Cured Virginia (NET) 3%
Vanilla Custard v2 (CAP) 1.5%

I’m also personally now going to try going down my own “remix” route with this. Instead of trying to completely and accurately clone Django, I’ll attempt to create something as good / better, using a different set of flavours. Current recipe looks like this:

Django v33
Butterscotch Ripple (FW) 3
Caramel (CAP) 2
Flue Cured Virginia (NET) 3%
Holy Vanilla (DIYFS) 2
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 0.75

It’ll obviously be a while before either of those are ready, as I’ve got a lot of work to do, attempting my own NET creation etc. but I’ll jump back in here from time to time with updates on progress and any other thoughts…


@horizonism WOW!!! I am really shocked how far you are going with this…

About NET this really helps the quest and as I am in Greece I have no access other than getting one that might be close.
I will go next week and get T-Juice Primo Verde, which is from real tobacco leafs (burley and virginia) and have a go in the recipe…

Mentioning Django doesn’t gunk coils…well, it surely does mine in 3-4 days like no other juice I vape (mainly Strawberry milkshakes)

Thank you for all the effort and information provided!!!


hahah, i must echo @Daniel33 here when i say fair f##ing play for the effort you’ve put into this, @horizonism. kudos where kudos is deserved, mate.

call me cynical, though, but if i were working for a fairly well known eliquid manufacturer i would not give too many direct hints away… by saying “no v1” - fair play, that could be true - but i genuinely think it might be an attempt to lead you to think v2 is the way forward where capella might not even be in the mix at all - a dangling false positive.

i also think that vanilla bourbon is 100% in the mix - there needs to be something to give it the distinct colouration and this is the one i’m most certain of (just like butterscotch ripple).

holy vanilla might also be there; it’s quite a well known and reputable vanilla from what i gather, and although it apparently has traces of diacetyl, it’s currently in my stash and i might give it a go as well.

the tobacco factor is indeed a pain in the arse, and it’s tough proceeding down such an advanced route for what this might be worth.

i’ve had no problems with django gunking my coils to be honest, it seems to hold up pretty well.

also pretty unsure about caramel v2 (CAP) - i put the bastard in my “hail mary” version which i probably should not have done as it has too many wildcards. it does not smell too good or “refined” - but perhaps it plays well with holy vanilla and gives a whole new flavour combined. not sure about that, but my versions are looking pretty bleak.

this certainly sounds like a big step in the right direction, and i hope (if 13th are telling the truth) that one of the two is butterscotch ripple.

let’s see if they reply again; if anything, this is certainly entertaining.

more power.


Lol. Maybe I could benefit from a bit of cynicism. I dropped mine a long time ago. My thinking is that it doesn’t really make sense for 13th floor to arbitrarily mislead me. I told them how much Django I’ve bought, just for side-by-side testing, during this project (a lot), and how I’ll continue to buy it, even if we ever manage to replicate it, as I think they deserve all the support they can get, even just for creating Django.

I’m not naive enough to think that doesn’t preclude them from misleading me, but I think there tends to be a congenial / curious attitude amongst the premium juice creators towards the DIY community, whilst also a knowledge that it’s still such a small subset of the vaping consumer group, that an accurate clone doesn’t constitute a viable threat to future profits.

It’s weird that you both report diametrically opposed results with coil gunkage when vaping Django. I’ve personally not had many problems with it, but I don’t vape it for very long, as I’m trying my best to save every drop I have, for side-by-side testing when we get close to nailing this sucker. I’m gonna ask two of my friends who regularly vape it for their opinions on coil gunking, and see if we can get a more accurate overview on this.

A couple of things I wanted to mention, while they’re on my mind:

Vanilla Bourbon (TFA)
I’ve been seriously considering buying some of this, based on your comments, but I’m not yet fully convinced. There are two prime reasons for me holding off.

  1. There’s an important variable in the colouring of Django that we’re not able to accurately replicate: the tobacco (NET). These are notoriously dark in colour, so the amber shade in Django could be coming solely from the NET itself. (The clearest examples of NETs I’ve seen were created by users on ECF, IIRC, who used lab-grade equipment, at ridiculous expense.)
  2. Vanilla Bourbon (TFA) is a bit of an anomaly in the TPA component list (see here).

Vanilla Extract >= 50% and < 75% sweet vanilla
Vanilla Oleoresin >= 10% and < 50% sweet vanilla dried fruit caramel
Glycerin >= 49% and <= 50% slight sweet taste
ethanol 17.5-18% no taste
Water 27-37%

It appears to be a VG-based flavouring (glycerin), with alcohol (ethanol), and it’s the only TPA concentrate which includes Vanilla Oleoresin, which is a “semi-solid concentrate made by removing the solvent from vanilla extract” (source). This probably goes a long way towards explaining why it reportedly gunks coils like crazy.

Holy Vanilla (DIYFS) appears to be a much preferred alternative to Vanilla Bourbon (TFA), to impart a similar flavour profile (dark, slightly malted vanilla at slightly higher percentages), without any of those complications listed above. Holy Vanilla at 2% also reportedly mimics “a bit of vanilla extract in a glass of milk” (source), which sounds like a surefire shortcut to replicating some of the notes in Django (Vanilla Milk)

That said, I find it hard to believe that 13th floor would actually use DIYFS Holy Vanilla, due to its cost. This is a definite factor worth bearing in mind when attempting to create an accurate clone. I think most premium juice manufacturers have a hard time justifying even using FA concentrates, due to their comparable expense compared to FW / TFA / CAP.

So I’m on the fence about this. I personally would prefer to use DIYFS Holy Vanilla in some of my future clone attempts, even if it’s not 100% accurate to the profile, as it’s outrageously delicious, it doesn’t gunk coils, it’s got elements on top of its vanilla base which allow us to skip on a few other components, and I’ve got a 30ml bottle of the stuff, so I’m not precious about it.

But I’ll most likely add Vanilla Bourbon (TFA) to my next order, just to give it a try, and see how it performs in single flavour testing and as part of a mix.

I’m beginning to think this really is the only bit of outright deception in the flavour description from 13th floor. I really think there’s a chance there is not a single caramel concentrate in Django.

Looking at all the Caramel concentrates available, we can rule out anything from FW, as they all have warning signs. I personally think we can probably also rule out TFA Caramel (as it tastes like air), and DX Caramel (Original) (TFA). The latter due to its coil gunking properties. Which leaves only a few possible candidates:

Caramel (CAP) - Like @carnage0 said, this is nasty stuff. I actually like the aroma from the concentrate bottle, but every mix I’ve made with it just tastes like burnt sugar, in a bad way. I haven’t given my latest recipe (vanilla milk base) much of a steep yet (only made it last night), so I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt for a few days, to see if the Holy Vanilla and CAP VC can tame it down a bit. But I’m not confident.

Caramel (FA) - I seriously thought that this would be in Django, but working by deduction (keeping in mind they told me I only got two flavours correct in the recipe I sent them), we can say that if it’s present, then there’s either no Butterscotch Ripple (FW), or there’s no Vanilla Custard (CAP).

I find it really hard to believe that Django doesn’t contain both of those concentrates, although perhaps I’ve just been totally wrong about Butterscotch Ripple (FW) all along. And perhaps they’re using Butterscotch (FA) for the butterscotch notes, maybe along with Butterscotch (Natural) (FW), as they’re the only other widely-used Butterscotch concentrates that don’t contain DA/AP. Jury’s out on this one. I need to do more testing with both of those concentrates.

While I’m waiting on supplies for NET production, I’m gonna mix up a few recipes without tobacco, and play around with subbing out all Caramel concentrates for Butterscotch (FA) and Butterscotch (Natural) (FW). I’ll report back with results.

@Daniel33 - I’m really interested in your results with T-Juice Primo Verde. It’s one of only two possible tobacco concentrates I was actually going to try before going down the NET production route. The other being Virginia Classic (Inawera). (Apparently the Classic line from Inawera is rumoured to involve NETs.)


Goodmorning everyone!!!

So I had a go with T-Juice Primo Verde and it was a disappointment…so I bought Shade instead just to have a nice tobacco flavor. I know this also has nothing to do with the tobacco in Django, but at least it tastes and smells good…

I would be very very happy if we go close to Django’s caramel and vanilla milk and add a nice Tobacco flavor in it (for I am not into NET)

So, my next recipe will be based on @horizonism 32.2 and will be

FW Butterscotch Ripple 4%
Caramel TPA 0.5%
French Vanilla Cream TPA 1%
Bavarian Cream 1%
Vanilla Custard V2 CAP 2%
Vanilla Bourbon (FA) 1%
Shade FA 4%

Cheers to all!