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[REQ] 13th floor elevapors Django


#41

Hello! Anyone tried add some drops off Cappuccino (CAP) ?


#42

Really a great read watching you guys trying to nail a specific flavor down. Both encourages and frustrates me in my own attempts but I’ll keep swinging in the dark as each swing gets me feedback warmer or colder. My nose isn’t all that good at picking out individual notes but it’ll tell me yes or no on a blend.
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I had a few recipes for mine I found online but all are simple copies of one from a French site once I dug deep enough and it doesn’t hit the mark very close in my opinion.
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I look forward to your continued work on this one even though I’m not into tobacco flavors much any longer. Just plain good fun to watch.
Bob


#43

Hi @Bob_Bitchen Thanks for sharing! Can you though share with us this recipe from the french site as it can help us (include or exclude)

@shakta7 Hello! did you include it? don’t think anyone has tried any kind of coffee in his recepies

Cheers
D


#44

i added 1 drop on 10ml of version 32.2 of horizonism’s reciepe and i find it very good (makes flavor more rich)


#45

@shakta7 Thanks for the input!!! Will try it in my next test…


#46

Hello everybody!!!

Any news or any hints regarding Django Clone?

I had a few goes and now I am trying tobaccos from Hangsen which from what they state are real tobacco extracts.

Will update if found anything similar…

Cheers


#47

Hey everyone! I’ve been off on a fruit binge lately, and been enjoying the freedom of waking up each morning without the slight psychosis of thinking I need to clone Django. It’s been fun. I recommend it!

In terms of progress, I spent a good few months working on NETs, and created some of the most disgusting, unvapeable disasters in the history of vaping. I created four different NETs, using three types of tobacco.

  1. Kentucky rolling tobacco from my local tobacconist, which I processed using the PGA method
    This was reminiscent of Hangsen Flue Cured. It’s the closest I came to producing something even remotely vapeable, but it was still outrageously disgusting. I do not recommend it.
  2. Kentucky rolling tobacco soaked in cold PG for 2 months. This was not very nice.
  3. Burley rolling tobacco soaked in cold PG for 2 months. This was not very nice either.
  4. Virginia Flue Cured Whole Leaf soaked in cold PG for 2 months. This was an abomination. Literally the most disgusting thing I’ve ever tasted. My friend and I had to immediately re-wick, dry burn, and clean our RDAs after testing this stuff. Just the memory of the taste makes my face hurt.

So I’d call that a failure. Though one thing I think I established beyond doubt, is that this is not anything like the process being used by the NET supplier for 13th Floor. My suspicion is that they were being accurate when they used the word “distilled” to describe the NET manufacturing process. As this would likely imply some form of steam distillation, which is apparently possible, but very difficult, and requires expensive equipment to implement.

The other thing I think I safely established is that they are not using a single leaf varietal as the basis for their NET. This is made plain by my abysmal experience of extracting from Whole Leaf Virginia Flue Cured tobacco. My suspicion in this case is that if they ARE using a single leaf varietal, they’re using a combination, and then blending them after extraction.

I recently began revisiting the various recipes I’d created, but this time using some of Flavorah’s synthetic tobacco concentrates in place of any NET. This has produced much more amenable results. I used a combination of FLV Cured Tobacco and FLV Burley in my latest recipe, and though it was not really anything like Django, it was nonetheless delicious.

My next recipe will involve a simplified approach to the ingredients. I’m gonna be using FLV Kentucky Blend, when it arrives in the post in a few days time.

A note on the base: after a long time spent single flavour testing the various creams, vanillas, butterscotch and caramel options out there, I’ve decided to switch over to a proper remix route, rather than attempting to accurately replicate the set of concentrates that 13th Floor are using.

I’m instead going for what I personally think are the most delicious components, which result in the most delicious recipe. (What’s the point otherwise?!) And to top it off, I’m always aiming to reduce steep times, and make something that’s vapeable in the shortest window possible.

Here’s my latest iteration:

Dwango (Django remix)

Ingredient %
Butterscotch (Flavorah) 0.75
Dulce de Leche (JF) 2
Kentucky Blend (Flavorah) 1
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 1.5

Flavor total: 5.25%

I’ll update with results!


#48

I just got Tobacco (Purilum) and Tobacco Original (Pur) in a gift pack from another ELR member and they both have a nice middle of the road smell. Did up a small single flavor tester on both and I’ll see how they develop.


#49

@horizonism I really enjoy reading your posts :slight_smile:

After 2 years of vaping Django non stop (with only few flavors to complement it during some days) they stopped providing here in Greece and I am 3 weeks without it (#$%@@#$ TPD)


#50

Just a quick update on progress…

FLV Kentucky Blend is delightful stuff. It’s a slight miss for Django, but easily the closest I’ve come to replicating some of the deeper / middle bodied tobacco notes. It’s the top notes that are somewhat lacking.

My most recent notes from mixing up 5 different versions with FLV Kentucky Blend are as follows:
"From smell testing, I keep coming back to the notion that TPA Butterscotch is used in Django. There’s a distinctive aroma component that it shares with Django.

There’s also a very deep, dark caramel note in the aroma of Django that I simply don’t seem able to replicate with any of the caramels I have.

Having tried all them all, at various percentages, I’m now off down the route of investigating Flavor West’s offerings in this area. First up will be Caramel Candy. Fingers crossed, that’ll be the one.

I’m also playing around with using other components to simulate caramel, without actually using a caramel concentrate. The best options I’ve come across in recent testing:

JF Dulce de Leche at 2-3%
CAP French Vanilla at 2%

These both have “caramellic” elements to them, along with extra vanilla notes, which are more than welcome to join the Django party.

As for Kentucky Blend, it doesn’t seem capable of sticking its top notes through the butterscotch / caramel in the same manner as the tobacco in Django. There’s a leafy component that’s missing.

I’ve tried INW TA Virginia, which slightly works to bring out the “leaf” but it brings some bitterness to the table which is not welcome. My next big experiment will be with the INW “Classic for Pipe” line. But it might be a while, as I have a backlog of flavor orders for other things I’m working on right now."

@Daniel33 if you can get your hands on the following components, it should keep you going until we crack this:

Dwango (Django remix - v6)

Ingredient %
Brown Sugar (TPA) 1
Butterscotch (TPA) 1.5
Dulce de Leche (JF) 2.5
French Vanilla (CAP) 1.5
Kentucky Blend (Flavorah) 2.5
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 3.5

CAP VC v1, and CAP French Vanilla can both be subbed for v2. Kentucky Blend can be knocked up or down, according to how prominent you want the tobacco. But bear in mind that if you raise it beyond 3%, the whole mix can become a bit dark, in flavour terms.


#51

Hi everyone,

First of all let me say that this is probably the best DIY thread I’ve followed. Huge shoutout to @horizonism & @Daniel33 - I’ve learnt so much form you guys, and I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts! Keep it up… :slight_smile:

Now, on to the point… I’ve been trying to nail django for a while now (I’m a huge fan). I’ve made some of these recipes in this thread, and even though none of them was unvapeable (actually some were quite nice), none of them came close to Django. I think the problem here is that Django is a pretty complex flavour, which makes one intuitively think it must be a complex recipe. However, given that Django is a mass-produced e-liquid, I’m inclined to assume that it’s not actually a super complex recipe. Ok, maybe its tobacco (which is super subtle) notes are not that easy to replicate, and maybe 13th floor Elevapors were indeed being honest when they hinted they don’t use any of the ready-made concetrates. But other than that, i think the butterscotchy, vanilla-milk base is doable.

So here is my take. I used Seakow’s recipe (http://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/1066851/Django%20Clone) and added 1.5% FLV Kentucky blend (for that leafy element) and 2% FW-butterscotch ripple. It’s been steeping for almost 3 weeks now, and i have to say the smell is simply amazing. The inhale is very close to django (just a tiny bit harsher at this point due to the RY4d which needs more time). The exhale I’m actually finding a bit richer than django. The FLV Kentucky blend is quite prominent, and i think it’s covering parts of the FW-butterscotch ripple. So basically, i’m thinking of dropping FLV Kentucky blend to 1% and adding like 0.5% FW-Butterscotch natural. I know that’s one of the worst concetrates to use (diketone-wise), but at such a small percentage I don’t really care (the same applies for CAP-Vanilla Custard V1).

So tbasically, I’m like 99% sure Django has TFA-RY4d and FW-Butterscotch Ripple. Also INW-Vanilla for pipe works wonders with flue-cured tobacco. FA-Cream fresh is spot on for the light milky base base we’re after, and is nicely supported by the CAP-Vanilla Custard. That said, going above 2% (CAP-Vanilla Custard), does make it more custardy rather than milky, which is not really desirable. The tobacco notes are indeed tricky. I won’t say much here because @horizonism & @Daniel33 have already done some serious research on it. I will just say that FLV-Kentucky blend is indeed delightful stuff, and it blends nicely with darker/smokier tobaccos (e.g. flue cured). It is a bit “in your face” above 2% though. I also have INW-Seven leaves which is super leafy, so another variant i’m pondering would be 1% FLV-Kentucky + 0.5% INW-Seven leaves + 2% Flue cured. Another option i’m pondering is FA-Vienna Cream instead of CAP-Vanilla Custard, but I don’t think this is the right route to follow, because I find it highly unlikely that a company which mass-produces eliquids can afford to use a lot of FA concetrates.

So my next attempt will be Seakow’s recipe + the following:

  • 1% Kentucky Blend (FLV)
  • 2% Butterscotch Ripple (FW)
  • 0.5% Butterscotch natural (FW)
  • 0.5% Seven leaves (INW)

Thanks again for all your efforts guys - I’ll keep you posted on my progress :smile:

ps: I’m a new member in the forum and I can only mention 2 people maximum on my first post.


#52

Hi @jimpil

It’s great to hear from you and thank you for helping this effort!

I have made some effort of my own regarding the recipe (to my taste of course)
Unfortunately, I was without Django for some time (3-4 months).
During this time I tried several mixes which made me happy since I didn’t have another option.
All of them involved both Butterscotch (FW) and Butterscotch Ripple (FW).

2 weeks ago, I managed to get my hands on a bottle of Django at 0mg and added a booster to get it to 6mg. I was shocked with how sweet and intense it is…Either they are using some highly concentrated flavours or the overall flavour % is high…And wow that was sweet…

Not to get into details, I think I prefer my mix (will conclude that once it is available in Greece in the following days in 6mg at last and test it again), which am trying to master and make it better for my taste…

Here is the one I just mixed yesterday…And I repeat, I am changing each time the percentages or a concentrate to master it for my taste…

Butterscotch (FW) 3% (was 2,5%)
Butterscotch Ripple (FW) 5% (was at 4%)
Caramel (FA) 1%
Holy Vanilla (DIYFS) 2% (Had French Vanilla with great results, but think this is a better vanilla)
Meringue (TPA) 1%
RY4 Double (TPA) 4,5% (I am 100% that this is in Django)
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 2.5%
Vienna Cream (FA) 1.5%

I also have the above with French vanilla instead of Holy Vanilla as well as added 1% Kentucky NET found in the UK (by lowering 1% RY4D), which in the beginning ruined the mix (Kentucky was too overwhelming and not an agreeable aroma), but will give it time to give my conclusions…

I will reply in a couple of weeks when I make my first dripper test…Cheers to all!


#53

HI @Daniel33,

Oooh yeah…thanks for reminding me. I had a similar experience with 0mg Django (official 13th floor elevapors Amazon channel). I’ve bought more than 6 bottles and they don’t taste as good as the 3mg (never tried higher) that you get from proper ‘vape sites’. The flavour is somewhat lacking and is, as you say, a bit on the sweet side. In particular, I think it’s lacking the tobacco notes. That could be evidence of NET. I’m thinking maybe the tobacco flavouring they use comes with nicotine, and so they would have to skip it altogether for 0mg. Perhaps I’m overthinking this - who knows…What I do know is that the juice tastes quite different without nicotine. The Django that we know and love (3/6mg) is definitely not intense flavour. In fact, I’d say it’s spot on for an ADV. Now, the 0mg one, apart from being sort of anaemic (in flavour terms), as you pointed out is quite sweet, quite caramelic rather than milky, I might add. Perhaps that’s what you perceive as intense.

OK, so we have consensus on some flavours:

  • RY4D (TPA) => around 4%
  • Butterscotch-Ripple (FW) => I’m trying around 2%, but i see you’re going up to 5%!
  • Butterscotch Natural (FW) => I was thinking 0.5%, but OMG you’re already at 3%!!! Blime that’s A LOT of butterscotch :wink:
  • Vanilla Custard (CAP) => around 2% otherwise it starts taking over. That’s the ‘glue’ in the mix. Perhaps a touch of Meringue will help here (per your mix from yesterday - very good idea).
  • I hear wonderful things about Holy Vanilla (DIYFS). Unfortunately, I don’t have it in my roster. Also we need something to bridge the tobacco with the vanilla(s). I think @Seakow had a brilliant thought of using Vanilla for Pipe (INW) and that’s why I run with it. I think it works very well…How does Holy Vanilla (DIYFS) blend with tobacco flavours? Will it be able to be that ‘bridge’?

Anyway thanks for the reply - happy mixing :slight_smile:


#54

Hey @jimpil

Didn’t include Butterscotch natural…I have Plain Butterscotch (FW)
Would like to order it in my next round of orders as well as Butterscotch from Flavorah (Think is more prominent and less % is needed)

Regarding Vanilla Custard, had it 2% but wasn’t there and upped it to 3% and was too prominent…Will see how it goes with 2.5%

Regarding the Holy Vanilla, just got it yesterday and mixed it as well…I heard great things as well, that’s why I included it instead of French Vanilla (TPA). Some say that this is the missing ingredients for some top notch commercial e-juices…

Will post the findings once I have steeped it (Smelled it today and it smells just great!!! hope it tastes as good)

Happy Mixing 2 u 2!!!


#55

Hey all, thanks for such a great thread. Django was my adv until it sadly became unavailable in the UK and my first attempts at cloning were basically sickly and generally ghastly. The Dwango recipe, whilst nice was slighty off for me and I wasn’t quite liking the kentucky blend. I added a few tweaks of my own to that recipe and came up with my something that I don’t think is too far off… it’s by no means 100 percent but I am finding it scratches that Django itch!

here 'tiz:

CAP Simply Vanilla 3%
CAP French Vanilla 2.5%
FA Vanilla Swirl 2.5%
CAP Marshmallow 2.5%
FA Dulce de Leche 1%
FA Western Tobacco 2.5%
FW Butterscotch 2.5%

I’m pretty sure there’s something marshmallowey in the Django mix (that’s what I taste anyways) and I used Western tobacco as it’s pretty much the only tobacco flavour I like (so far)

I might try knocking the various vanillas up and down a touch and that butterscotch ripple and Holy Vanilla do sound intruiguing…

See what you all think anyways, I’d love to get another opinion :slight_smile:


#56

Hi @gvoid,

Welcome to the party! Here is my feedback:

First of all, I’m assuming that by FA, you actually mean TFA/TPA, as FA stands for FlavourArt and they don’t do Western Tobacco, Vanilla Swirl or Dulce de Leche.

  1. TFA Western Tobacco => I’m pretty sure this is NOT in Django. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a nice semi-sweet/leathery tobacco that goes great with caramel. That said, it’s by no means subtle. It has a very characteristic taste & smell which I’ve never tasted/smelled in Django. If you love Western Tobacco so much I would suggest the following recipe: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/601423/Villain%20Vapors%20-%20Capone%20. Just replace 1% of the caramel-original with FW-Butterscoth-Ripple and add 1% of your favourite flue-cured tobacco for a nice, complex flavour.

  2. TFA Vanilla Swirl => This is something that I’ve considered as well. I really like its light + fluffy qualities, but at the same time I’d say that it’s a bit too sweet for Django. Perhaps that can be balanced out though…I’m torn on this one. I guess i’ll have to try it at some point. If that’s in Django then there must be something else to give it some ‘body’.

  3. CAP Marshmallow => I agree that there is something airy/fluffy in the Django aroma. I don’t actually taste marshmallow, but texture-wise this seems to be on point. The things is that if your vanilla base is already not too thick (Vanilla Swirl + Dulce de Leche), then adding marshmallow will make it even looser. So if i was to guess I’d say that this combo will result in a rather milky (as oposed to light creamy) base.

  4. FW Butterscotch = > I don’t actually have this, but i do have Butterscotch-Natural and Butterscotch-Ripple both from FW. There is definitely a butterscothcy aroma in Django. It’s quite subtle but it’s definitely there and it sits perfectly right next to the tobacco notes. Personally, i think Butterscotch-Ripple is the flavour for this recipe. It is the most creamy (almost saucy) and subtle Butterscotch I’ve come across. Butterscotch-Natural is rather heavy, in flavour terms, and as such, it sits on top of (as opposed to next to) everything else i’ve tried to mix it with. If that’s in Django then it must be at very low percentages. I also know that it’s full of nasties, so the less the better :slight_smile:

That’s all from me at this point in time…Thanks for joining the effort to clone Django - I bet 13 floor elevapors are super amused (or terrified?) by this thread!

Kind regards


#57

Hi, and cheers for replying!

ah, that’s what I meant then, Flavour Apprentice!

Yeah, I’d given up basically and decided just to try and make a killer vanilla tobacco vape with Western and kind of accidentally came up with my closest attemp at Django yet haha but thanks for that recipe… looks pretty tasty.

I definitely think the vanilla swirl and butterscotch add to the django-eyness but my own mix has started to develop a strange bitterness as it’s steeped - which is annoying as it was lovely when i first mixed it. I guess it’s back to the drawing board,

Well, they do say imitation is the greatest form of flattery and I don’t think the Django folks are quaking quite yet!

Cheers!

Gav


#58

Hello again @gav,

If I was to guess I’d say that Western tobacco is to blame for that the bitterness that has started showing. You’ve got nothing in your recipe to bridge the tobacco with the vanillas. I’d give TFA-RY4D a try, it works wonders as a middle, or in fact a bottom tier. However, from all the tobaccos I’ve tried I think FLV-Kentucky-blend is the closest thing to Django. It’s very bright, if you know what I mean. And everything in Django tastes bright…the caramel, the vanilla, the tobacco - everything! It has a body but it’s not heavy or thick…You’ve got me intrigued with TFA-Vanilla-swirl. I might try to mix a variant of mine with that instead of CAP-Vanilla-custard. I love CAP-VC but perhaps something less dense is warranted here. My main concern is how it will blend with the tobaccos. I know it works with RY4D (pistachio-RY4U is one of my favs), but i have a gut feeling it won’t work with darker/woodier blends (e.g. flue-cured or Western). I’l try to make some over the weekend anyway…thanks for the idea :slight_smile:

will keep you posted

Cheers :wink:


#59

hmmm yeah it’s a strange one, I mean I use Western quite alot and in higher doses but I’ve never had that problem before… I was wondering if the culprit might have been the butterscotch or the CAP simply vanilla or some weird reaction between ingredients…

In my previous attempts I’d found the RY4D made things too sweet and the Kentucky too strong… my trials with the vanilla custard also made things too, well, custardy…

I’l give it a whirl with smaller quantities then but in meantime I just knocked up a juice with:

3 % RY4D
3 % vanilla swirl
2% western
2% Whipped Cream (TFA)
.5% butterscotch

This is delicious right off the bat and I’ll post an update when it’s steeped a bit. It’s not Django but there is a Djangoness to it which I’m strongly suspecting is the vanilla swirl :slight_smile:

I’m waiting for a few NET samples too so I’ll begin a fresh round of experiments when they arrive…


#60

Hello Everyone !

Did you reach the final decision concerning 13 Floor elevapors Django …

I’m little lost with the messages from Horizonism

Thanks to you all