20-22 people linked to health related vaping problems:

General The Pub
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NPR did a 10-15 second headline today that actually had the right story. No vape scare mongering, all about elicit non-regulated THC type products, sorry that was an awful paraphrase! But, the truth is circulating!

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Nice pun ! Yes, it sounds like quite a “den of inequities” when the public juice seems to lack cognitive clarity differentiating between “saints”/“sinners” seems at best quite missable in solutions for ritualized oxen-goring

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Just saying the mainstream is starting to get the story straight. It was only a matter of time.

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I am certainly with you in spirit (of informed liberty and personal choices for adults regarding their own bodies and minds) - but the quite intentional opportunistic fallacious association (of Nicotine delivery systems with THC delivery systems) going on only represents a rhetorical “gateway opening” for spooking the public as to the possibilities of far more demonized, and for many disturbing, controlled-substances:

(US DOJ, June 2018): The lack of enforced regulation prior to May 2016 has resulted in easy accesses to e-cigarettes and has shepherded their nefarious uses. The use of the e-cigarettes as an illicit drug delivery device is touted on websites, forums, blogs, and videos describing how best to use them for specific illicit drugs such as tetrahydrocannabinol, methamphetamine, fentanyl, and heroin. These sites explain at length the benefits of “vaping” illicit drugs as it can conceivably be done in public without attracting notice. … While some individuals and communities have begun to legislate where users can vape, vaping is not just acceptable, it is considered “cool” by many and often has the added benefit of no odor. Analyzing paraphernalia for drug usage uses straightforward methodology established in controlled substance laboratories nationwide.

One perhaps technically interesting “spin-off” from the above quoted and linked 2018 US DOJ report is this:

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… which (if validly determined) appears to show minimal Nicotine concentration differences in their tested e-juice samples at ~11-28 weeks - between kept: Dark and Cold (DC); Dark and Room Temperature (DR); Light and Room Temperature (LR). It all comes down to whether folks believe a so-called “DOJ deep state”
(IMO, more like a “shallow state” composed of ham-fisted and arrogant bureaucratic “agencies of fear” :thinking:).

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I’m not so sure about that ^^^^, which makes the fact that the real FACTS are coming to light, even that more unexpected, and valuable, IMO. I was convinced the “media” was just going to use it to continue the ROLLING over of the vaping / DIY juice industry.

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If we can shed some light on that, it might just help.

I feel in the end, big P will be handed the nic, closed systems will be the in thing, and equipment like we have now… will be shunned… I hope all the big (abc) people will be happy rich and live long… mighty pr1cks… yeah I went there… it’s pissing me off too.

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Information released about patients in Illinois and Wisconsin (implying a somewhat more mixed picture):

(New England Journal of Medicine, September 6, 2019): All patients had a history of use of e-cigarettes and related products within the 90 days before symptom onset, and 94% of those with data (32 of 34 patients) regarding the date of last use reported vaping in the week before symptom onset. Most patients (29 of 33 patients [88%]) reported at least daily e-cigarette use. Of the 41 patients who were extensively interviewed, 61% reported use of nicotine products, 80% reported use of THC products, and 7% reported use of CBD products. A total of 37% of the patients reported using THC products only, whereas 17% reported using nicotine-containing products only. A total of 44% of the patients reported using both nicotine and THC products. Patients reported using 14 distinct brands of THC products and 13 brands of nicotine products in a wide range of flavors. The most common THC product that was reported was marketed under the “Dank Vape” label (reported by 24 of 41 interviewed patients [59%]). Patients reported use of a number of different e-cigarette devices to aerosolize these products. Of the 41 patients who were extensively interviewed, 7 reported smoking combustible cigarettes as well. … Although the cause or causes of the reported illnesses remain under investigation, products containing THC are the most commonly reported e-cigarette product exposure among these case patients (84%). However, 17% of the patients reported using only nicotine-based products, and 44% reported using both THC-based and nicotine-based products. Information on product use is based on reports by the patients, and patients may be reluctant to report illicit drug use. Less clear is the relevance of e-cigarette device types that were used, as well as the importance of practice habits (frequency of use, dosing, etc.), product delivery methods (e.g., adulteration of devices), and definitive product content.

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Dr Michael Siegel (the impressively outspoken white-coat also quoted above in previous posts on thread):

(Salon, September 8, 2019): “I would argue that people are being given false and misleading information by suggesting that vaping is just as bad as smoking,” Dr. Michael Siegel, a professor at Boston University School of Public Health whose research focuses on tobacco reduction, told Salon. … “There are a lot of adult vapers who are getting scared when they hear that vaping is just as bad as smoking, then they logically conclude, ‘Well, why don’t I just smoke?’” he continued. “That’s a devastating public health consequence.” … Since e-cigarettes are a relatively new product, the potential health risks associated with such devices are considered preliminary and far from conclusive. It may take years or even decades for researchers to uncover the full and lasting health consequences of e-cigarettes, especially among young, healthy users. … Additionally, there are nearly 500 different e-cigarette on the market and each one delivers various levels of nicotine (or none at all), flavorings and combinations of chemicals. This makes it even more difficult to assess the health effects of vaping. … Siegel, the Boston University professor, criticized Michigan’s vaping ban and those like it. He said the measures will “very negative effects” on the public health. “I don’t see any public health justification for banning e-cigarettes, but allowing cigarettes to remain to be sold - especially if you’re concerned that kids are going to be at risk for smoking,” he said of Michigan’s ban. “Any effect that this law is going to have is that a lot of adult ex-smokers are going to go back to smoking when their [e-cigarette] products are no longer available. And, the ultimate irony of this law is that those adult ex-smokers who don’t go back to smoking are probably going to start purchasing off the black market,” he added. “The governor has just created a black market that didn’t before exist, and those products are not going to be regulated by the FDA.”

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On a lighter note, yet another tragic manifestation of the “deadly wages of sin” caused by vaping Nicotine:

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Source: https://cdn.britannica.com/58/139458-050-D6244464/Dante-Virgil-demons-illustration-Hell-Gustave-Dore-1861.jpg

:stuck_out_tongue:

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News I was reading was that the lungs were found with a some kind of oil build-up in their lungs.

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Always thought that bio-diesel showed promise. Those particular reports seem to boil down predominantly to known symptoms resulting from the inhalation of Mineral Oil fumes (not the alcohols PG, VG). Interestingly, Palm Oil (cheap source for Glycerin) is “relatively rich” in Tocopherols (that is, Vitamin E molecules), which decompose when heated. If Acetic Acid was possibly added at some point, chemical analysis might indicate the (reported) presence of Vitamin E Acetate (a salt formed with Tocopherols and Acetic Acid). Just sayin’.

Vitamin E in edible palm oil can be decomposed during high heat cooking process and the time used to heat oil was less affect to vitamin E decomposition than temperature increasing.

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Hehe @Raven-Knightly…

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(Time; September 6, 2019): The FDA is now testing more than 100 product samples used by patients who developed lung diseases after vaping, in an effort to find out exactly what’s in them and what could be causing illnesses. NY state health officials on Thursday pointed to vitamin E acetate, an unauthorized additive in some marijuana vape pods, as a focus of their investigation. On Friday, an FDA spokesman said, “No one substance, including Vitamin E acetate, has been identified in all of the samples tested” by the agency. The spokesperson added: “Importantly, identifying any compounds that are present in the samples will be one piece of the puzzle but will not necessarily answer questions about causality."

Oh well, time to move onto some other fashionable scapegoat with which to slander the sin of “vaping”. :thinking: Of prime importance will remain the skillful conflation of Nicotine with already demonized “psychotropics”.

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Having worked with Acetic Acid for decades, I would have to say only a total idiot would think of putting that in something you’d inhale. But I guess that’s the point.

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I guess that I might have been wise to hold back the Vinegar from my “Free Range Non-GMO Corned Beef Shanks” sauce. Just wanted to “marinate the meat” (so to speak). Much better bovine “bouquet” that way.

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The Acetate salt appears to be a fairly common formulation of (the various) Vitamin E molecules (up front).

Acetic Acid is item number one on this list of “can be used” acids for Nicotine Salt formulations. Who knew ?

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I guess that would be the difference between a process and an additive. That stuff will literally make your sinus’ bleed.

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I can dig it. Similarly, Hydrochloric Acid, Sulphuric Acid, Citric Acid (and other common ones widely used in medicinal salt formulations) are not desirable to play with (in any appreciable quantities, whether complexed as a salt in solution, or not) where it comes to one’s internal mucus-membranes - which can be quite finicky.

The FDA places Acetic Acid on their recent proposed list of Respiratory Toxicants (RT) appearing below:

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Source: Drums of War in the Ongoing FDA Flavorings Inquisition?

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Right on cue, the administration is rolling out it’s most erudite intellectual heavyweights on scientific matters:

I am deeply concerned about the growing epidemic of e-cigarette use in our children. We need to do all we can to protect the public from tobacco-related disease and death, and prevent e-cigarettes from becoming an on-ramp to nicotine addiction for a generation of youth.

It will likely be hard to argue with the gravity of such highly influential thinkers of our time in the White House.

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Just damn sad… is all… really sad :cry:

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It is as much intended as humor as anything - but the reader must click on the link above for the punch line.

This “breaking news” article puts new a twist on and gives a new meaning to the saying “Katy, bar the door!”:
“Vaping fears prompt Alabama high school to remove bathroom stall doors”

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You gotta love corrupt organizations like CDC and WHO that knowingly want to spread misinformation about vaping

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