20-22 people linked to health related vaping problems:

Mizzz, lung cancer is generally (at best) 6-9 months duration (with or without treatments). Add COPD (alone), and that estimated time duration of survival likely shortens. My point is that a forensic pathologist would be bound in sworn testimony to reveal and acknowledge that the identified so-morbidities (alone) would likely have soon been being fatal to the patient (on their own) - who perhaps very likely knew that.

Hard to judge anybody who faces mortality. There is nothing that we all face so profound, or so private.

If one (also) reads the details surrounding the (other) 13 patients anonymously reported on here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190825064016/https://emcrit.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/vapii.svg
… the symptoms and treatments applied that (otherwise) “succeeded” vary a lot in “severity” and “scope”.

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Do you have a citation for those claims or is that what you want to believe?

ETA: We cannot make up our own claims to fight false claims in the media. Two wrongs don’t make a right and only makes us look even worse.

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a big thank you for everyone who took the time to research and type out information for this thread! This is been a very good read, and the facts are surprising! The conjecture is well-placed and make sense. I can’t wait to find out more!

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Boston University public health professor Michael Siegel said the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is being “unnecessarily vague” about describing the injuries as simply vaping-related when many people might have been injured by vaping THC oil. “Based on what we know now, I think there’s enough to tell people: Don’t vape THC oils - especially products that are bought off the street,” Siegel said. "There are certain things the agency could be recommending right now that could potentially save lives and prevent this from happening by being much more specific.” … Marijuana oil vaping was cited in at least 21 cases of severe lung illness reported by the San Francisco Chronicle last week. In Utah, officials said marijuana oil was a likely culprit in most cases of lung illnesses in teens. A Wisconsin man had so much trouble breathing after he vaped nicotine and THC oil that doctors put Dylan Nelson into a medically induced coma and hooked him up to a ventilator. … “The truth is that in every case so far in which a specific e-liquid has been identified, that product has been a THC-containing e-liquid, typically purchased off the street and often in open cartridges such that they could contain a contaminant or other drug,” Siegel said. Siegel noted that in at least some of the cases, the use of a THC oil, such as butane hash oil, was blamed.

Most nicotine-laced liquids in e-cigarettes are alcohol-based and can’t cause “lipoid pneumonia,” the type cited in many of the lung cases, according to Siegel. The oil used when marijuana is vaped can, he said.

[ This statement contradicts some published claims about Glycerine being a “lipid” (and linkable to “lipoid pneumonia”) - and corroborates my previous observation that Glycerine (like PG) is instead an “alcohol”. ]

Dixie Harris, a pulmonologist at InterMountain Healthcare in Salt Lake City, says a “large portion” of the hospital system’s 13 vaping-related injuries involved THC. Harris said she advises people to avoid vaping THC products - or any vaping product that contains oil - because research suggests that can be a risk factor for lipoid pneumonia.

Source:
“People are vaping THC. Lung injuries being reported nationwide. Why is the CDC staying quiet?”;
USA Today, Aug 28, 2019

[ Quoted/referenced article has further statements raising some doubts about Nicotine Vaping culpability ]

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Politico (Aug 27, 2019): In the absence of hard answers from the federal government, speculation abounds. California and New York state reported at least some of their cases were linked to THC products, fueling speculation - backed by the nicotine vaping industry - that black-market THC vape makers are responsible. Minnesota officials said seven of nine confirmed cases involved THC vapes. The leading theory at the moment is that the culprits are largely counterfeit vapors, bought on the black market or tampered with in some way - resulting in clusters of cases in certain states and cities. That makes finding answers all the more difficult.

Article (quoted above) references a 2019 paper about Butane (in cannabidiol oils) and lipoid pneumonias: Lung injury from inhaling butane hash oil mimics pneumonia.

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One additional (2018) paper (not previously referenced) describing (Nicotine) vaping-related pneumonia(s).

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CORRECTION (ADDENDUM TO A PREVIOUS ASSERTION PUBLISHED BY ME ON THIS THREAD):
I failed (my bad !) to note that the case of the 70 year old patient (described in the patient data here) with comorbidities Lung Cancer and COPD, 4 weeks of “heavy vaping”, hospitalization, and death, was NOT the the patient in Illinois who recently (for reasons not presently determined/disclosed by the Illinois DOH) died. That particular medical case was previously described in the following paper published in 2016 (abstract).

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I think the question should be “what are the contaminants?” Some of us have been vaping oil (if nothing else, the old fashioned way) for literally decades with no side effects anywhere close to this. I question if this was actually THC or something else, like a different drug or maybe just poor manufacture. The other possibility is some nut case poisoning people like they did years back with Tylenol. It would be nice to know the reality and not the spin.

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Good points about specificity on the information known and publicly disseminated. I (cynically) suspect that the CDC may be moving slowly on releasing information because they are (surely) pleased when something like this can be used to (however inaccurately) smear Nicotine Vaping - as they (and the FDA) are clearly already on a public relations “moral crusade” against it. The CDC has well practiced political experts in the leveraging of garbage data and “slippery innuendo”. Their actions surrounding Opioid meds have been an appalling travesty. No reason to expect them to be any less specious and dishonest regarding Nicotine. In the Age of Dunning-Kruger and “Hell Boy” of 12,000 Lies and Counting, (objectively verifiable) “truths” have little to do with (and are often impediments to) click-bait “press” fueled juggernauts of slanderous agitprop.

Of the (few) papers that I have been looking at regarding “lipoid pneumonias”, it seems to be dominantly associated with inhalation of Mineral Oil droplets (which is a complex mix of various hydrocarbons lipids):


Source: https://www.concawe.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/s2-1_hedelin_final-2013-02353-01-e.pdf

NIH Toxnet: Foreign-body granulomas or paraffinomas in the liver, spleen, or mesenteric lymph nodes have been reported following systemic absorption of mineral oil. Lipid granulomas of the lung are localized lipid pneumonia, usually found in adults as a result of habitual use of large amounts of mineral oil by nasal, oral or pharyngeal administration for prolonged periods of time.

1994 CDC document about maximum concentrations of Mineral Oil mist within breathed air environments.

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Agreed @Raven-Knightly. If it doesn’t fit the narrative, leave it out or MAKE it fit the narrative.

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Just read this one. One of the doctors involved came forward with at least one of the culprits. According to the article the CDC won’t comment yet because it’s an ongoing investigation.

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Hmmmm, I knew it was only a matter of time before some fucktard, added ED meds, hair restoration meds, or some other random crap and made it worse for all of us.

http://tkoproducts.com/

TKO, hmmmm, wonder if it’s their actual product, or fakes ?

https://www.instagram.com/_tkoextracts/?igshid=19ik1y2c9poh1 < – FAKE FAKE

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I think that you are on the right track. And I submit that there may well be nothing new or unusual about these types of cases, period. It’s all about the strategic “framing” of “information” in what Noam Chomsky termed the “manufacture of consent”. One can blind with “pseudo-science” (just as easily) to an illiterate populace.


Source: tiredtangerine: Image

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Well maybe someone can help explain this here, but I’m seeing more and more references to oil ??

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Here’s what the (some say so-called) “press” has most recently been operating from:

Transcript of August 23, 2019, CDC Press Telebriefing
on Severe Pulmonary Disease Associated with Use of E-cigarettes

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STOBBE/AP: hi, thank you for taking my call. May i ask, the person who died in illinois can you say if it was a male or female and what his or her age was or at least whether they were in their 20s or 30s and what day did they die and what was he or she vaping? Could you say whether that person had a preexisting condition that made them more susceptible to something like that and of the 193, how many were vaping thc? Thank you.

LAYDEN: this is dr. Layden from illinois. The illinois resident we are not providing additional information to help protect the identity and confidential health information. The individual was an adult. Of our cases in Illinois the range of ages have been from 17 to 38 with a median age of 23, and the majority of cases have been men. At this time we don’t have additional information as to the product that has been smoked.

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NORRIS/PBS : thank you for doing this call. I’m looking for a little bit more clarity in where you all are at, if you can say anything more on the concerns of THC vaping as well as nicotine and if the patients in illinois have done both or one or the other, just again any more distinction from you experts is helpful.

ZELLER: this is mitch zeller, from fda, i’ll start. I think it’s important for everybody to understand that as closely as the federal agencies and the state health departments have been working together, we find ourselves in the early stages of these investigations trying to piece together the facts. As illinois said in their press release, many of these cases have involved the presence of compounds like THC, and we need to get to the bottom of every single case. And at times we are reliant on case reporting that is incomplete, and requires time to gather basic information like the name of the product that was used, where it was purchased, and then how the product was used. Was it used as intended or was some other compound added? And those kind of facts need to be strung together for every single one of these cases so that we can see if there are any kind of patterns that emerge. So please understand that we’re at a relatively early stage in this ongoing investigation but that state government and the federal government are throwing a lot of resources at this to try to answer your questions, which are all good questions.

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According to Mitch Zeller of the FDA, the testing “won’t necessarily answer any questions about causality, but it’s a starting point and an important piece of the puzzle.”

Note how the “bureaucrats” can later, upon scrutiny, fall back onto their notably fairly reserved and limited statements, while the “press” seeks to theatricalize and lionize the “brave healers” (along with themselves), gushing and chortling like Magpies about “links”, “associations”, and such specious, empty click-bait rubbish engineered for “shock and awe”. The populace’s dependence upon ever begging to be infantilized and duly supervised is showing - and there exist scores of opportunists and parasites very happy to profitably oblige.

Interesting that it is the FDA (and not the CDC) conducting testing on what “evidence” they may possess. Following his above statement, (when asked by The Lancet’s reporter), FDA’s Mitch Zeller indicated that he does not even know whether any THC-oils that they may have will (or will not) be tested for the presence of pesticides - which is the obvious thing to do with any sort of Cannabis product in such a situation. Kind of sounds like the FDA - unable to determine evidence in (legal or illegal) state-level Cannabinoid substances investigations - is more interested in fishing for (generalized) anti-vaping cannon-fodder ammo. This plays in well with the drum-roll drama already being orchestrated by FDA surrounding vaping - the aspects which they have an easier chance of regulating as an agency (something falling under “Tobacco Product Deeming”). The DEA would seem to (potentially) take possible investigative interest in Cannabinoid product(s) toxicity - for use as possible political cannon-fodder with the goal of keeping them (THC, CBDs) in Schedule I status.

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Then we have the whole group of Lipoid pneumonia cases from Aspiration of oil from people OIL PULLING, for dental hygiene… Seems to be a new popular hip thing people are doing. now-a-days.

So how may cases are really from vaping oil and how many cases are from people practicing oil pulling and just happen to be a vaper? Need more info I think :wink:

Any why doesn’t the media warn people of the REAL danger of OIL-PULLING and want to harp on vaping?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4628246/

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I noticed (in my poking about) that some kerosene “fire-eaters” have been reported to acquire this condition.

Other causes include being a professional fire eater …

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oil pulling and fire eaters…
gosh knows we have a few dragons here in the Upstate SC…
but it is close together… along with cbd thc and you have a perfect storm for lung collapse…
Now how many will admit to swishing oil and firing up that inner dragon?? hmm… :slight_smile:

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Inverse dig deeps into Dank Vapes

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Jim, good find. The “Inverse” publishing seems to be a couple of links removed. The direct article URL is:

https://www.inverse.com/article/58581-dank-vapes

The availability of DYI packaging components seems not something new. Another “branding” not mentioned in the article is packaging called: “Cookies, London Pound Cake, Hybrid, THC 91%” with the letters “CA” printed under a little logo (implying California). Alleged to be “Blue Dream” extract, it’s very inexpensive, and of dubious contents. Prohibition + demand nearly always tragically eventually equals dangerous products.

Note that FDA spokesperson Mitch Zeller was not even aware whether or not the FDA intended to test for the presence of pesticides in the sample(s) - an obvious thing to do if they had a real interest in the (actual) toxicological situation. The mentioned “fungicide” Myclobutanil emits some amounts of Hydrogen Cyanide when heated. Don’t set fire to Polyurethane (which produces significant amounts of Hydrogen Cyanide gas).

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yup and look at this…

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They have been listed everywhere I’ve seen as bootlegs.

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