A PUBLIC and Civil Discussion on the Rules

Ken_O_Where · January 30, 2018, 10:47pm

So im a glutton for punishment as you are about to see. During this discussion no mods will be accepting private messages on this topic. If you have thoughts on this topic they belong here, in this thread. This needs to be an open and honest discussion where people can post without fear of reprisal.

As this one will most likely get heated keep in mind the other rules especially no personal attacks and no call-outs.

With that said lets jump right in.

As stated in the Ch-ch-ch-changes thread, thread derailing of any kind is going to be enforced. Along with this comes the topic of adult content, sexual innuendo and if it has a place on ELR at all. Every single time one of us tries to curtail the blatant violation of our rules, on this, the topic of playing favorites pops up by allowing one thing and not another. Often times some of the racier reviews come up as an example of favoritism.

So here we are and here are my thoughts on the subject.

We are adults on a website for adults but every single adult knows that in a civil society one must apply filters, it took the majority of my life to learn this lesson.

Some of the stuff we allowed in the past doesnt belong in the open forum at all, we have a great Private Message system for that.

BUT

I am of the opinion that a suggestive review is absolutely acceptable as long as it is tagged as such and stays PG-13 . This allows one who doesnt wish to see this kind of material to scroll on past it.

YET

Skullblade made an excellent point the other night in the Mentors thread, this is OUR community. Still, our meetings are held in a rented building that has rules.

Im offering everyone the chance to voice their opinions on this one particular topic. So that it doesnt get convoluted with other topics please refrain from any other topic unless directly related.

We need to redefine the line in the sand and this your chance to say what you have to say. Again, please lets keep it civil and allow logic to rule the day.

EDIT: So lots of posts, im going to tl;dr a bit of it.

Saloon stays put, naughty things stay there. Lars agreed that anything an 8 year old shouldnt see doesnt belong in the public side of the forums.

Keep the Saloon NC-17 or lower and if you go into the Saloon and get offended dont come complaining to us.

No thread derailments, henceforth if you are gonna get all kinds of derailment crazy your information may be lost forever. I dont see a reason for us to clean up after others.

Keep the language on the public side half way decent and by that i mean swearing is allowed just dont get stupid with it. You know wtf im talking about.

If you feel you are beginning to derail to far split the thread into either a new thread or into a PM.

I think that is where we are at now.

Edit JoJo: Opening to the discussion of all changes being suggested. A post for voting is here:

Mizzz_Z_Hobbit · January 30, 2018, 10:57pm

It’s perfectly acceptable to have innuendos in Mod reviews. These products are marketed to 18+ or 21+ in some states/countries. It’s not favoritism to allow a reviewer to add some spice according to their particular style. If anyone wants to debate that, let me go find the dirty Disney innuendos vid on Youtube.

Other folks who derail any random thread into debauchery, sure we could do with a little tidying up there. We’re all a little guilty of that now and then, some more than others I guess.

worm1 · January 30, 2018, 10:57pm

would that be left up to the reviewer to rate pg, pg 13, r , think u just gave u and the staff more work…

fidalgo_vapes · January 30, 2018, 11:05pm

As far as reviews its under the review part and i personally have no problem with it , but if there is a concern with it then to tag it with a pg 13 type rating should not be an issue for anyone , to go off topic on a thread i believe is natural but to completely derail with the sexual stuff and continue it for the lengths that it seems to go on does imo get silly , as you stated there is a place for it , thats just my opinion though …

Steampugs · January 30, 2018, 11:13pm

I will start by saying that most of you know what I do, and what ‘we’ created with Steampugs and I am probably responsible for the ‘racier’ reviews coming into fruition and this…currently…is being tarred with the same brush as other far more ‘racier’ threads.
Firstly I will apologise to those who found my material offensive, it was certainly never my intent, I just tried to add a different spin on something that was being done in the same format many times over, to stand out you need to be unique and my whole background comes from comedy…or in other words…I was just being me.
‘You can’t please everyone all of the time’ is never more true than in the world of the reviewer, trust me on that, but my argument is this, Vaping is an adult hobby done by adults that should be able to deal with adult humour in an adult way’ …and myself and VM …being the only 2 on Steampugs that can be accused of being racy…aren’t really that bad …it’s just a bit of fun geared towards people who appreciate it…and if you don’t appreciate it…just don’t read it?
Ultimately…we are now in a transition period here on our beloved ELR, change is a comin, and if you would rather not see Steampugs reviews being shown on the public forum then, give your reasons, talk to us, and if the nays have it, I will pack up and move on, no harm no foul, it will not be the end of Steampugs, just the end of it on here and I will gladly give links as to where you can find us in the future.
I’d also like to thank all the people that have supported us thus far, your feedback has always been amazing and vastly overwhelming, and I know I have said it before but…if it wasn’t for you people here on ELR (you all know who you are) …Steampugs reviews would never exist.
So let me know your reservations and we will let the chips fall where they may.
Thanks!

MisterSinner · January 30, 2018, 11:17pm

I am with @fidalgo_vapes on this. Also, honestly, I find myself “muting” more and more threads/topics lately. Not because of the sexual stuff but due to massive derailments. That causes me to not know if the thread ever comes back around to the intended topic and I am sure I am losing out on some good info etc.

anon56603502 · January 30, 2018, 11:20pm

Removing obscene (basically pornographic) images from open threads:
I agree. Some of us have kids and when we browse the forum we don’t want one of those images to be shown, there was a place made for these images though, should that go? What about the discord? There was an “adult room” there.

Innuendos:
You have to read them to know what they are, we are all adults, keep those but to a minimum and in context, ie a review.

Kids
Kids should not be here as active members, it is 18+ as is the law of vaping, so words should not be read by minors, if they happen to be here, better parenting is needed imo, not OUR community’s problem.

Reviews:
I’ve never seen a review use pornographic imagery, innuendos sure, but as long as there isn’t obscene images, I think that’s fine and at the reviewers discretion / artistic flair.

Strong Language
When kept in context, I don’t see an issue with it, when it is random or not needed, I can see some people being offended, that is more of a personal preference though and this is a “discussion” board where words come thick and fast and situations may require the odd use of strong language as a form of expression.

Points of Interest

Derailed Threads:
I’m guilty of doing this in the not so distant past but I think this is a huge problem with this forum, you start to read a thread with good info then all of a sudden your reading peoples personal conversations that are for the majority, off topic.

Personal Vendettas
Not everyone gets on with everyone else but there have been times where I have seen people bullied to the point they feel pushed away or anxious to post.

First impressions:
When you look at the forum from a new members eyes it can be rather daunting and I understand why ELR has those little threads posted like “I got these flavours help”, is there any way to direct them straight to one of the amazing “beginners guides to ELR” to give them at least a chance.

I think I covered everything there.

Remember:

We are not the only people who come here.

When new people come here they expect to see vape related things, not photos of “toys” or scantily clad men/women, they are expecting it to be child safe, when it isn’t, little Timmy starts asking questions and ELR’s reputation drops a notch.

That should be a concern for us as a community, not just the staff / owner.

anon43988816 · January 30, 2018, 11:23pm

Yes, this. We’re all adults (or should be) and sometimes adults discuss adult subjects, use crass language, and use innuendos.

And I wholeheartedly agree with this. There is a time and a place for all of that.
And before anyone thinks I’m being hypocritical for saying that…
I know I’ve been guilty of commenting in an adult fashion at the wrong times and in the wrong places. I’ve made an effort lately (with some slip ups) to not go off the rails by being inappropriate when its not on topic.

I think it’s common knowledge, but I write suggestive, “naughty” reviews. I try to keep them limited to innuendos and not drift into smutty waters and I personally think they’ve all been in the pg-13 ballpark. I (obviously) agree with Ken that they should be considered acceptable on an adult forum, but would be happy to label them as pg-13 if that makes things easier for people who aren’t interesting in reading such material.

I will say that I think there is a BIG difference between writing an “adult content” review and derailing threads with innuendos and/or explicit content.

If I’ve written anything that makes people offended/upset/nauseous/etc, I’m sorry and that’s not my intent. Yeah, I do try to be a little…shocking. That’s my personally, my type of humor, and honestly its how I am in real life outside of the forum.

If anyone ever has an issue with how I present myself on this forum or in my reviews, I genuinely would like you to tell me. I’d rather know so that I can evaluate the situation than to live in ignorance.

Ken_O_Where · January 30, 2018, 11:30pm

Pugs and i have started a Reviews group, once it is all settled i will leave it up the them to decide. They know our stance, and i trust them.

anon44944642 · January 30, 2018, 11:33pm

Everybody stop making me feel important, for cripe’s sake. I’m three months old.

anon43988816 · January 30, 2018, 11:34pm

I’m being 100% serious here, if you intend on sticking around ELR, then your thoughts matter on this subject.

Ken_O_Where · January 30, 2018, 11:37pm

Thank you for chiming in tonight, @VapeyMama. I know you are busy with real like stuff.

I agree with this.

As some may have noticed several threads from the “Saloon” have disappeared. It was decided that that content just doesnt belong anywhere on the open forums, i completely and 100% agree that it doesnt.

I am personally very fond of VMs reviews, hell, everyone’s reviews for that matter. I feel they are no more racy than the average advert on TV anymore, not the drug ones…

Now that i have stated my opinion, twice, im am not going to do it again. I do not want anyone to be influenced by my words just because i am a mod and really, really, really good looking.

anon44944642 · January 30, 2018, 11:38pm

A couple quick hits, honest.

1.) As stated elsewhere, vaping itself requires 18 years old plus. I do not think it benefits the forum a lot to try to make it a ‘kid safe’ zone. We are all adults, by law even. Why can’t we say ‘damn’?

2.) I am a huge supporter of off-topic drifting. It makes a lot of threads a lot of fun. This is a public forum, people. The thread starter does not own it; it is public domain. Why does anyone get offended if the thread drifts, especially if the answer is already given? I cannot understand why that is a violation.

anon43988816 · January 30, 2018, 11:38pm

No prob… I think I’ve got about 30 more minutes before I have to go.

anon44944642 · January 30, 2018, 11:40pm

Innuendo, time out for you.

Vapor_Tiger · January 30, 2018, 11:40pm

Storm in a teacup. I have not seen anything on ELR that needs to be censored (sorry, filtered). If people might be offended by content, why not warn them with a tag or icon (snowflake would be nice). Whatever will be decided by consensus is fine with me.

Steampugs · January 30, 2018, 11:41pm

Honestly…because the question on the forum will remain the same, and if it’s a question that someone stumbles on in the open forum and thinks…‘i’d quite like the answer to that myself’…they have to trawl through a lot of BS to get the answer they are looking for…and answers to questions is kinda what a forum is all about…

Ken_O_Where · January 30, 2018, 11:41pm

Oh, you misunderstand. Im not sexy at all, just really really really good looking.

anon44944642 · January 30, 2018, 11:44pm

OK. So answers only, no extra enhancements. Understood.

Ken_O_Where · January 30, 2018, 11:44pm

Exactly, this is just not what we want. The information shared here is important for many reasons and much of it is serious in nature. But i can see the point of tagging a post with a Serious tag in which all replies not related to the topic, in a serious manner, would be removed.