Australia and vaping

Looks like Australians are well and truly reamed. Time will tell but our government seems to have well and truly buggered us with a flag pole.

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It’s the obvious result of restricting anything: The market becomes unregulated and without recourse.

You’d think prohibition might have taught people a few basic lessons.

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Yes, to revolutionize and overthrow tyranny!

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A very slanted survey!

No good option for this

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It oddly doesn’t have ‘6. Ban everything, lose all tax revenue from vaping products and become surprised when uncle Snorky takes care of it all’.

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I know the responsible thing is to complete the survey and contact my local MP etc but I have done everything before at least once and as far as I’m aware an awful lot of other Australian vapers did too but they took f**k all notice then and unfortunately I think they’ll do the same this time too. Cynically I believe it’s already a done deal on one level or another with the survey being a token propaganda exercise.

I have no problem with regulation including most that’s mentioned. I couldn’t care less about plain packaging and completely agree that kids shouldn’t be able to access vaping merchandise. Ban disposable pods too… that’s fine with me, they’ve caused most of the dramas in schools anyway but the elephant in the room is that they only exploded after the last draconian law was implemented. I would rather not pay tax but as long as I breath I always will on everything I buy. The government already receives GST from everything bought domestically.
And of course the old chestnut anybody over the age of 18 can legally go to any tobacco outlet and buy deadly combustible tobacco buy the shed load if they so desire and can afford it.
The hypocrisy is obvious but before I blow a gasket I better stop ranting.

Possibly why Juice Factory decided to pull the pin. If most of what’s proposed becomes law I’m sure they won’t be the last.

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We have had fires, floods and other “costly” events (Covid etc) that has drained the Government coffers (still enough in there to give politicians pay rises though). So it doesn’t surprise me at all they are trying more measures to get people back on the lucrative cash cow that is cigarette smoking…

They only have their own interests in mind and give a squidly squat care factor about the health of their constituents. I agree that it is probably already a done deal and we don’t have a hope in hell of stopping it, I think they proved that last time with the prescription model.

Time to buy some more nic just in case I guess as 250ml of 100mg FB (I have a script) will last me more than 5 years. :man_shrugging:

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I’ve always thought it was crazy that I can walk to the 7-11 down the street and buy any of 100 brands of cigarettes and/or cigars, but trying to get vape supplies is getting harder and harder. Makes no sense from a health standpoint. And though I don’t think vape supplies should be taxed like tobacco, I’m okay with paying a reasonable tax for products that have improved my health compared to smoking. And bans on flavored e-juice will drive some folks back to smoking. I am completely on board with making it harder for kids and teens to vape, but don’t punish adults who have switched to vaping from smoking. Let’s have stores and vendors be more diligent about age verification rather than take away a harm reduction option to smoking,

Like you, I should stop before my blood pressure goes through the roof. It just p*sses me off.

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Thanks for posting this vid Gazza.

I had already made a submission through Legalise Vaping using their form where you populate a submission via statements but watching this video and re-reading the questions to answer individually makes much more sense, so I have done that too.

I read the survey a few months back but couldn’t comprehend the questions :crazy_face:
I have now done it again and answered in full.

Apparently, some are just cutting and pasting the answers from Dr C’s submission (link in bogans vid) but I didn’t realise that until after I had answered all in my own words.

I’m going to list all the relevant questions and answers I wrote here.
If anyone needs inspiration (plagarism is fine with me too! obviously just change personal references)

12. Which border control option for regulating NVPs is preferred by you? Why?

Option 6 Any other option (please explain).

Nicotine vaping products should be available in Australia as a consumer product utilizing a tightly regulated consumer model such as has been suggested previous to the implementation of the prescription model that is now in place.

If adult consumers are able to access nicotine vaping products without a prescription from places such as chemists and licenced vape shops and/or licenced general retail stores, the need for a prescription will be removed and policing of the products sold will be done by those who are licenced.

At the moment any person can import nicotine products without a prescription as the prescription model is not being enforced allowing these products to enter the country with no checks or balances.

There seems to be no reason to continue with this model as it is clearly not working to prohibit nicotine products entering the country illegally.

Please look to the regulatory models of the United Kingdom and New Zealand as examples of how to implement successful controls on nicotine vaping in Australia.

Q 13 Would any of these options have an impact on you? How?

The options listed in question 12 above are very restrictive.

They would not necessarily affect me directly other than having to help my husband navigate yet another set of rules and regulations.

For myself, I gave up cigarettes in exchange for nicotine vaping 4 years ago. Last year I gave up nicotine also - Yes I still vape with zero nicotine and I still wish to at this point in time. I would still like the opportunity to purchase vaping equipment without having to obtain a prescription as I do not need a prescription.

I want other smokers to be able to have the opportunity to quit smoking in an easy way, not having to jump through hoops to get a prescription and import products from overseas.

At the very least, leave the prescription model as it is and ensure that the regulations are enforced to prohibit illegal nicotine entering the country.

If nicotine vaping products are available as a tightly regulated consumer model many thousands of smokers will have the opportunity to quit smoking as easily as my mother, my sister, my brother-in-law and my husband and I have.

Q 14. If the border control regulations are changed, how much time would you require, if any, to become familiar with the reforms, and to organise procurement of compliant products as necessary, before the reforms come into effect?

12 months

Any change will take considerable time to organize but that obviously will depend on what reforms are to be implemented either by government officials or retailers on the front line.

15. Which option (for pre-market assessment of NVPs) do you prefer? Why?

I agree with the model suggested by Dr Colin Mendelsohn in his submission.

"Pre-market assessment

All vaping products should be registered for quality and safety prior to marketing.

The best way to do this is with a streamlined pre-market notification system under which manufacturers notify the regulator that their products are compliant with Australian standards and provide confirmatory data before marketing is allowed. This is working well in the UK and New Zealand.

The alternative is a pre-market authorisation approach, under which the regulator must assess every product prior to approval.

This method is onerous, expensive and time-consuming and has been a resounding failure in the US."

Q16 Would any of these options have an impact on you? How?

Options 2-4 in question 15 are all time consuming and restrictive. This will impact current products in the legitimate vape market in a negative way.

I.E. If the e-liquid I currently use is not to assessed as being “appropriate or approved” for some reason or other, I then have to spend my time, money and effort trying to source another brand or flavour to use - Vaping is not as simple as “use this flavour” it is a very personal experience and subjective to each individual person preference.

17. If changes are made to pre-market assessment of NVPs by the TGA, how much time would you require, if any, to become familiar with the reforms, and to organise procurement of compliant products as necessary before the reforms come into effect? What impact would any requirement to pay a fee have on you?

12 months

As a consumer I can only conclude that businesses would need a reasonable amount of time to comply with new requirements.

I would expect that any costs would be passed onto me by the business. This would cause moderate financial impact because at the moment I am unable to work due to ill health.

18. Which option to restrict flavours in NVPs do you prefer? Why?

Make no change to the list of currently restricted flavouring agents in NVPs

I do not see any issue with restricting flavours that are proven to have a health risk when vaped.

As a person who mixes their own eliquid, I would be at a complete loss without flavours or with only “nicotine” or tobacco flavour in eliquid.

I have only ever vaped fruit, custard and bakery flavours and continue to do so with no nicotine. If I were not able to access flavours. I would likely return to smoking combustible cigarettes.

A blanket prohibition of flavours will only encourage renegades to move underground and create a black market - we have evidence of that already with nicotine prescriptions.

20. Do you support introducing plain packaging requirements for NVPs? If so, should this entail packaging similar to other prescription-only medicines, or should additional measures be considered?

I support plain packaging but do not see it as necessary.

Different packaging for different eliquid brands and flavours is beneficial to help differentiate between said brands and flavours.

Eliquid is not like smoking cigarettes, you do not necessarily vape the same eliquid day to day to day for years. Some, like me, change flavours throughout the day for variety.

21. Do you support introducing additional warning statements for NVPs? If so, which warning statements should be included? How would this align with the treatment of NVPs as a prescription-only medicine?

No

I don’t understand how written or visual warnings (scare tactics) are supposed to work. They did not work for me as a smoker.

“How would this align with the treatment of NVPs as a prescription-only medicine?”

As far as I am aware, nicotine vaping is not treated as a “medicine”. The same as nicotine in a cigarette is not a “medicine”.

Neither of them should be, they are consumer products.

22. Do you support restricting nicotine concentrations in NVPs to 20mg/mL (or base form equivalent concentration for nicotine salt products)? If not, what alternative do you support?

No. My husband and I have always purchased 100mg/ml for addition to eliquid ourselves.

If this is to be introduced then you will need to ensure that pre-mixed Vegetable Glycerin/Propylene Glycol/Nicotine are made available in the variable strengths and larger quantities so that people like myself, who mix their own e-liquid will be able to continue to do so.

If I am unable to have control over the product that I choose to vape by mixing it myself then I will likely return to combustible cigarettes.

23. Do you support limiting the maximum volume of liquid NVPs? If so, what maximum volume should be specified?

No, I do not support limiting the maximum volume because if I cannot order nicotine in 100mg/ml (freebase) and have to order it premixed then I will want larger volumes of said premix (as per my answer to question 22).

I currently order Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerin in 1 Litres bottles, six bottles at a time so I have a continual supply (I live in a rural area where there are NO vape shops).

24. Do you support preventing access to disposable NVPs?

Disposable NVP’s have their place. They are a good way to try vaping to see if it might work for you in the first instance.

They should be part of a tightly regulated consumer model and not freely available on Facebook Marketplace like they are now.

They are a good option for those who do not have the time or inclination to use a pod or a mod. If it keeps a person from smoking combustible cigarettes then they should be available.

25. Would any of the options set out in questions 18 to 24 have an impact on you? How?

The proposed regulations/suggestions are very restrictive and only focus on the easiest solution for the majority with no consideration for the smaller populations of the vaping community.

i.e. The suggested regulations seem to propose that everyone will just vape nicotine “flavour” and be able to give up smoking with no options or choices.

That will not happen for all. Vaping is a truly individual process that needs to be tailored to each individual by the individual. Yes, their will be some that this will work for but others will not find this system satisfactory and will continue to smoke combustible cigarettes.

There is no provision in the suggested regulations for those of us who are hobbyists and enjoy mixing their own eliquid. We are a dying breed.

Another shop in WA announced it is closing, they sell flavours for mixing. Now that I have gone through these questions in the survey, I now understand why.

It is clear to me that the TGA have no intention or interest in the people of the vaping community as a whole and are doing this survey to simply try and tame the “horse that has bolted” and the terrible decision of a prescription model that was not well thought out and has now resulted in a black market targeting the youth of this country.

I am disappointed that I did not do this survey earlier, I read it a few months ago but could not comprehend all the questions due to my current illness.

I really wish I had understood the implications of this survey earlier.

I would have spoken to every vaper I know to garner their support and action for the thing that has literally saved their lives. I will still try but reading these questions, it feels like the decisions have been made and Vaping in this country will never be the same.

Vapers who are not aware will be devastated to learn that all that the thing that is their saviour, Vaping, may be lost to bureaucracy and not one but two Governments that cannot see past their own interests to make a better place for at-risk smokers in Australia.

For me the impact will be a likely restocking of supplies while I can to ensure I have what I need to continue to vape nicotine free for as long as possible in case all these regulations are adopted.

After that who knows… I guess I’d better start saving. Smoking is expensive.

26. If changes to product quality and safety standards are made, how much time would you require, if any, to become familiar with the reforms, and to organise the procurement of compliant products as necessary, before the reforms come into effect?

12 months,

Businesses and consumers will need time to understand and adjust to the reforms and decide their way forward in this process.

27. Are there any other potential minimum requirements for unregistered NVPs that the TGA should consider including in TGO 110?

I do not know.

28. Do you support regulating NVPs that contain nicotine, but are not labelled as containing nicotine, under the therapeutic goods framework?

NVP’s that are not labelled as containing nicotine are only not being labeled as containing nicotine because of the prescription model and the threat of being intercepted at the border if no prescription is suppled.

If we had a tightly regulated consumer model this would be less of an issue as those licenced to sell nicotine products would be responsible for ensuing that only persons of legal age could access the products.

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dammit - a typo :slightly_smiling_face: :upside_down_face:

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and i’ve just finished sharing my answers to the world on fb :grin:

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Hasn’t this been looming over Australia for a while? Personally when the US started cracking down I stocked up on hardware, and commercial eliquid & decided I should buy and stock up on nicotine, and started DIY. I’m glad I did because although some states don’t have flavor bans, mine does and my state has a 75% excise tax. For me getting gear and flavored liquid is basically impossible unless I have a friend send it to me. This should be a wake up call for all countries. I’m totally not surprised by this. It’s bullshit, it sucks, but this should be a wake-up call for everyone in every country.

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Yeah, if I needed to (I don’t) I’d be stocking up on hardware and nicotine immediately. I saw this coming ages ago when the then Liberal gooberment we had started their shenanigans with nicotine importation so I grabbed enough to last me for 15 years or so (vaping at 10mg) but I could stretch it out further if I lowered my nic (which might be a good thing anyway). The current Labor cretins we have running the show seem intent on carrying on the same nonsensical BS as the previous mob.

The only things that might be impacted will be hardware and nicotine (correct me if I’m wrong) so any Aussies out there that want to get themselves prepared for this possible shit show are highly encouraged to get themselves some more, and get it now while you can. If it turns out pear-shaped you’re covered. If it doesn’t, who cares, you can never have enough mods (and nic) can you :rofl:

P.S. I don’t need any hardware (I’ve enough to last me until I retire this mortal coil) but I’m considering getting some more, just to be on the safe side and maybe to help others less prepared, if and when the time comes. :peace_symbol:

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Same here bro. I feel really sorry for the noobs just starting out. The rest of us have no excuse AFAIC, the writing has been on the wall for a long time.
Even with little money us oldies could’ve stocked up bit by little bit.
As time progresses I seem to have lost my patience with people who refuse to listen.
It happens too many times and on too many issues.
Fuck em!

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It has been on the cards for a very long time but that doesn’t make it any easier to swallow. It’s one of the reasons I’ve insisted upon not relying on a particular tank that doesn’t have a rebuildable option. Even then I’ve attempted to rebuild most stock coils and haven’t thrown a stock coil shell away in a long time. I actually stripped some last week and have them soaking in vodka as we speak.

I’ve been ‘panic buying’ for a long time awaiting vapergeddon as it’s been threatened at different degrees before. Truth is I’m probably safe enough for my lifetime but how many will return to smoking and die from a smoking related disease due to repeated government’s greed and deception?

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Hopefully none, but I completely get what you’re saying. We can keep vaping alive as a community, helping each other!

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True, true @Josephine_van_Rijn, and in more ways than one.

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Fair enough @Gazza7, I agree.

Very wise as well.

Same here @Gazza7

And THERE, is the question. EXACTLY.

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There gonna make it so we have to get nicotine from pharmacy with a script. There treating us like junkies on methadone. They using we need to protect the children but yet cigarettes alcohol don’t need a script.

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It’s a possibility it could be a few steps worse than that.
To be honest whatever BS is rolled out next I doubt I’ll be too surprised.

I’m still hanging on a distant hope that sometime in my lifetime we might see a politician with power,balls and some common sense that actually bothers to get to the complete truth about vaping and vapers.

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