The way that first popped into my head would be to mix up something that had extra flavor, then you could add your nic later. But trying to come up with a solution for the fact that different amounts of nic would dilute your mix by different amounts seemed like a real pain. Maybe an easier way would be to make two large batches of the same juice, 1 huge batch at 0 nic and one smaller one at like, I dunno 24? Then you could steep them and if you needed to mix those together in different ratios to come up with different nic levels, pre-steeped on the spot. That’s probably how I’d do it.
Sounds like @zigz method might work pretty well. You might also think about making flavor bases. That way all you have to do is add pg/vg/nic and steep. But, I am guessing you’d still need to steep so if that’s what you’re trying to avoid then that might not work quite so well.
Well, depends on the accuracy you value. If you blend a complete mix containing the entire amount of VG, PG (if needed), and flavors at 0mg nic, it is now a complete recipe. Any adding at this point will dilute the flavor and literally require a steep all over again. I wouldn’t recommend this to anyone but maybe the resteep would not be necessary with PG based nic. VG based, you’ll need to steep again. The biggest problem is the dilution of your flavors and your customers are not gonna like diluted flavors…
The best way is also the most costly and that being make juices in each nic you offer. The second best way is to first offer recipes that all require the same amount of flavor, let’s use 15% flavor. You then make up a base for each amount of nic you offer. One for 3mg, one for 6mg, one for 12 mg, etc, ect, ect. When it comes time to make a juice for someone you then add the flavors they want and you are done. This is what Vape Shops do, at least those who blend on the spot. They are not steeping at all though when using this method. I do it the costly way, juices are made ahead of time and are given some steep time. I wish there was a easy way but if accuracy and flavor is important, you know the drill…
[quote=“ringling, post:5, topic:37107”]
Well, depends on the accuracy you value.
Would be interesting to know:
if you made a recipe and left out the nic (with a PG carrier)and natural steeped the recipe 4 weeks,
then added the nic (in the PG carrier) as required by the original recipe.
Would you re steep the recipe and if so how long?
Does the steep time change if the strengths differ (ie. 1 mg vs 36 mg)? Is there a general rule of thumb for steep time once the nic is added?
I’m somewhat aware of steep time for flavors (they differ depending), Is nic subject to a steep time?
Do not want to hi jack thread, sorry if off subject.
Actually this sounds like it fits in nicely in this thread. See this is what I was hinting at and my thoughts exactly.
PG is the best carrier of flavor. This is why most flavors are PG based. Obviously I can not tell you this for fact, but, I strongly believe a 1-2 day steep would probably be enough after adding the nic. I also feel there is a good chance you might not have to steep again at all if only adding PG nic to a already steeped juice blend. BUT, you will still have to make a base with the required amounts of all other ingredients minus the nic and then steep it. You would have to make one for each nic value for accuracy of taste thruout all blends and nic values. Basically doing it any other way is actually changing the recipe %s and when you do that, the flavor…
Anybody in the know, please correct me here !!! It is my belief that melding the flavors with the VG takes the longest time. This would mean that a VG based nic would need steeping. If it were pure nic I do not believe there is any melding to the flavors. If PG based nic most likely nearly no time to meld the extra PG. Basically these last thoughts are no more than theory but in my mind logical…
Actually I was not recommending it’s use. Now that is dangerous. I actually feel fairly safe with 100mg nic. Pure, not so much. I was just trying to say that I do not think nic needs to meld with the flavors. Nothing more. Honestly I would like to sway you from such thoughts unless you can do your blending in lab conditions. Full gear, ventilation, the works. Another thought, how are you gonna measure such minute amounts of nic and put it in a 15 or 30 ml bottle? Think about it…
I just did a test recipe calculation… A 30ml bottle with 3mg nicotine would need 0.09mg of pure nic…
I assure you this is all only in the talk, I’m just sharing thoughts and ideas…I’m sure I’m not the first to have this idea and I just want others input…I do, very much, appreciate your concern and the voicing of said concerns…really, I do…I’m just thinking out loud, brother
Let me make sure I’m interpreting this correctly. Do you mean making multiple bases for each nic value or one base that will work with any nic value?
If the former, then how are you saving any work/time vs just making finished liquids at different values and pre-steeping for your customers? The only way I see this working, and maybe this is what you meant and I’m just being dense, is for you to make a single base that will be finished when adding, for example, a total of 5 ml of nic and PG, and then you just make your bottles of 5 ml “nic shots” in the different concentrations needed for the different strengths you want to offer.
PURE NICOTINE CANNOT BE SAFELY HANDLED WITHOUT PROPER TRAINING AND EQUIPMENT.
Look at this video to see what I mean by proper training and equipment. If the link doesn’t do it for you for some reason, skip to 49 minutes and 5 seconds into the tour video. https://youtu.be/pa68u0iNSHI?t=49m5s
Watch it until 51 minutes 42 seconds. Really the whole video is interesting, but if you have it in your head that you can handle 1000mg nic, it’s worth 2 minutes and 30-something seconds to get an idea what that really means.
When we buy juice from vendors in Australia, because it is illegal for them to sell anything other than 0mg, we have to buy what is called a “doubler”, and ad the nic later ourselves.
Perhaps this procedure, or some variation of it could work for you…
A doubler is basically a 2x concentration of the end result. In other words… If, as the customer, I want 60ml of juice, I buy a 30ml doubler (the 2x concentration) which comes in a 60ml bottle. to that I add 30ml of pg/vg and nic at my desired strength to make up the 60ml.
Here is a link to the vendor I was buying my juice from (before I was DIY), & more specifically, their page that explains doublers & calculating nic etc - they’ll no doubt do a better job of it than me! http://vapoureyes.com.au/pages/what-are-doublers
Unfortunately, there is still a steep time involved using this method- typically 3-5 days, but some juices I bought took up to 2 wks …bare in mind however, they were steeped using the “put it away in a dark place” method with no agitation (- didnt know about that back then). Theoretically, I reckon you could almost use this “doubler” principle to achieve your aims if you sped up the steep…Or maybe better yet, save yourself the steeping hassle - just sell 'em a doubler for a few $ less, & let 'em do it the Australian way!
You can not make one base that will work for all nic values because the flavor dilution will be different per each nic value blend. Think about this. A customer wants 100ml of 18mg juice. That would be 18ml to be added to the blend. A second customer comes in and asks for 100ml of juice at 3mg nic which now your added nic is only 3ml. That is a difference of 15ml between the 2 blends. If you used the same base for both of these juices the 18mg blend is going to be diluted much, much more than the 3mg blend. Also, the 18mg blend will produce 15ml more juice than the 3mg blend…
The only way you could use one base for all would be to blend the base ready to accept the highest nic value you offer (let’s use 18mg). A customer comes in and wants 100ml of 6mg juice. Now you add 6ml of nic, 12ml of VG, and your base. This way your dilution is the same, but, now you’re adding more than one ingredient and also back to the steeping question. Hopefully this makes some sense. Had to hurry cause gotta go to work today…
I make ejuice for myself and two others at the moment, and we all use different levels of nic.
So, what I do is make flavor bases of the recipes I use most often.
This does considerably cut down on steep time, as the flavorings have already melded
quite well before I mix.
ELR makes it so easy with the ‘Make Flavor Base’ link.
When you use the ‘Make Flavor Base’ option, all you are doing is combining specific amounts of flavorings to make NEW a concentrated flavoring. Then you can use that particular flavoring with nic, pg/vg to make your juice.
Say you have an ADV thank consists of 14 different flavors totalling 14% - It’s a pain to mix. Make a flavor base, then just mix 14% of your flavor base - and make a big enough bottle and there’s enough flavor base to make 100s of ml of finished liquid
Another trick. Say you have 8 different recipes with different flavor totals. You can tweak you flavor base to make ALL of them mixable at 20%
Yes, that’s exactly what I was getting at when I made that weird example of a recipe that had everything but the “5 ml total nic + PG” added. Whether you had to add 5 ml PG, 5 ml nic, or X ml PG + Y ml nic (where X + Y = 5) you could make a variable “nic spike”. But the math would be a bit of a pain in the butt to come up with actual numbers, and you wouldn’t be able to offer various PG/VG ratios.
Not to derail the thread since I know WhiteRose is speaking of using this in a customer focused high volume scenario.
On a personal DIY level though where the difference between 4.5mg-6 mg nic really might not matter. Would making flavor bases and using a low mg nic base drastically reduce steep times? I’d like to have some true shake and vape type things and looking at easy ways to do this as well as reduce steep times without the investment in stirrers and ultrasonic, etc.
Quick napkin math: 20%flavor base + rest 100% VG 6mg nic = 80/20 4.8mg nic product
P.S. I understand the cost benefit of 100mg dilutions versus this, but I’m curious as to the effect on speed of steeping. Think DIY for Dummies instead of The DIY Gourmet.
this is whats up:
i dont like whipping up batches for clients and handing it over right away…NONE of them want to wait for steep…
and i have people with nic ranges from 3mg all the way up to 24mg
i am not big time, i dont really have it like that to mix so many bottles with varying nic levels…i was just nibbling at some ideas…