Cinnamon flavor

E-liquids Beginners
1

About 3 years ago I was vaping cinnamon flavored juice, about 2 months ago I went looking for cinnamon flavored juice, and all I could find was cinnamon red hots, and they are not the same, so I’ve recently started mixing, and I can’t find a recipe for cinnamon, does anybody have a recipe for cinnamon that they will share with me. Please and thank you in advance.

3 Likes
2

Are you looking for a cinnamon toast crunch ??? Or a cinnamon custard … Cinnamon candy ??? Do you remember what the liquid was that you use to vape ?

4 Likes
3

Hi and welcome to ELR.
Cinnamon comes in lots of different ways (sweetened, spicy, strong/mild, … ) so a little description would be useful. It is usually used to spice up a recipe, so you’ll have it with cookies or bakery, or perhaps with fruits, a candy or creams… the more info you can post here, the better the chances are you will find something that will please you. If not, there’s really not much people can do but guess.
Even though you’re not asking for a direct clone, I would highly recommend you look though the clone request guidelines to find out what people need to know to help you.

4 Likes
4

Welcome and glad you joined.
Careful, you might OD on this list:

3 Likes
5

Welcome to ELR @Jhughes654021.

Be careful with Cinnamon, it can ruin your mix in no time… start extremely looooooow
I love that stuff, but low and well blended (Swirl, Toast, Cookie, Rich)

3 Likes
6

When I tried Rich Cinnamon FLV I fell in love with it. It’s by far the best flavor I’ve had. I quickly ramped it up in my recipes and was hitting .6% which is high. I then developed some problems with my breathing. It took a few weeks before I made the connection then stopped using RC. Within 3 days, the problems were gone. I waited 4 months then tried it again at .25%. I’ve had no problems with it since. So, be careful.

5 Likes
7

I love the rich red and the fire cinnamon, however I have to keep it limited to 1-3 drops in a 30ml…
Depending on a recipe too, it can grow and yeah strong!! :slight_smile:

6 Likes
8

I remember I had to use glass tanks, plastic would melt plastic.

4 Likes
9

It seems that perhaps no single e-juice flavor constituent has been alleged to be so notoriously troubling(?):

Study of non-heated e-juice using human-derived endothelial cells grown in laboratory (June, 2019):
The cytotoxicity of the e-liquids varied considerably, with the cinnamon-flavored product being most potent and leading to significantly decreased cell viability, increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) levels, caspase 3/7 activity, and low-density lipoprotein uptake, activation of oxidative stress-related pathway, and impaired tube formation and migration, confirming endothelial dysfunction.

(In vitro MTT assay; February, 2019):
Cinnamaldehyde was subsequently identified in the most cytotoxic refill fluids and was found at toxic (in vitro) concentrations in a broad spectrum of refill fluids not suggesting “cinnamon”, such as variations of “fruit”, “berry”, “coffee”, “tobacco”, and “sweet”. Cinnamaldehyde was also immuno-suppressive when tested with human respiratory cells. … Cinnamaldehyde is particularly noteworthy as it is highly toxic (in vitro) at low concentrations. EC users have apparently experienced adverse health effects with its use as some bloggers have recommended avoiding products with cinnamon flavors, which are also known to rapidly etch plastic tanks, indicative of its reactivity.

Found to be reactive within mixed and stored e-juices (forming aldehyde acetals in PG; October, 2018):
Flavor aldehydes including benzaldehyde, cinnamaldehyde, citral, ethylvanillin, and vanillin rapidly reacted with the e-liquid solvent propylene glycol (PG) after mixing, and upward of 40% of flavor aldehyde content was converted to flavor aldehyde PG acetals, which were also detected in commercial e-liquids. Vaping experiments showed carryover rates of 50% - 80% of acetals to e-cigarette vapor. Acetals remained stable in physiological aqueous solution, with half-lives above 36 hours, suggesting they persist when inhaled by the user. Acetals activated aldehyde-sensitive TRPA1 irritant receptors and aldehyde-insensitive TRPV1 irritant receptors.

(May, 2017):
We conclude that cinnamaldehyde has the potential to impair respiratory immune cell function …

(November, 2016):
Cinnamaldehyde-containing refill fluids and aerosols are cytotoxic, genotoxic and low concentrations adversely affect cell processes and survival.

5 Likes
10

All these are probably true, but I have 2 problems with it :

  1. At what percentage does it start to cause problems? If it’s as low as the level of cinnamaldehyde that is in our juice, than yes that would be a problem. But it would be significantly higher before it affect us, I presume.
  2. If these science researches were published by an US based organization/college/scientists, I would just think they’re already paid for.
    If they came out of a england based organization/college/scientists, than I would look further. YMMV.
2 Likes
11

Read the papers themselves, which identify such information. All quotes are hyper-linked to the documents.

Here’s this (following-up on one of the papers referenced info allegedly supporting “low concentrations”):
Cinnamaldehyde is particularly noteworthy as it is highly toxic (in vitro) at low concentrations. [10, 33]:

[10]: Twenty of the 39 refill fluids contained cinnamaldehyde at concentrations that are cytotoxic to human embryonic and lung cells in the MTT assay. … At concentrations that produced no effect in the MTT assay, cinnamaldehyde decreased growth, attachment and spreading; altered cell morphology and motility; increased DNA strand breaks; and increased cell death. At the MTT IC50 concentration, lung cells were unable to recover from cinnamaldehyde after 2 hours of treatment, whereas embryonic cells recovered after 8 hours.

[33]: … our laboratory evaluated the cytotoxicity of a library of refill fluids with a broad range of flavors which included buttery/creamy, minty, sweet/candy, fruit, tobacco and cinnamon/spiced. About a third of these products were highly cytotoxic to human pulmonary fibroblasts (hPF) and two types of stem cells. However, a cinnamon-flavored refill fluid was the most potent across all cell types. Cinnamaldehyde was subsequently identified as the dominant flavor chemical in a small library of commercial cinnamon-flavored refill fluids, and its concentration was directly correlated with its cytotoxicity in the MTT assay. (5)

(5): In a prior study on electronic cigarette (EC) refill fluids, Cinnamon Ceylon was the most cytotoxic of 36 products tested. The purpose of the current study was to determine if high cytotoxicity is a general feature of cinnamon-flavored EC refill fluids and to identify the toxicant(s) in Cinnamon Ceylon. Eight cinnamon-flavored refill fluids, which were screened using the MTT assay, varied in their cytotoxicity with most being cytotoxic. … Only Cinnamaldehyde (CAD), 2-methoxycinnamaldehyde (2MOCA) were highly cytotoxic. The amount of each chemical in the refill fluids was quantified using HPLC, and cytotoxicity correlated with the amount of CAD/product. Duplicate bottles of the same product were similar, but varied in their concentrations of 2MOCA. These data show that the cinnamon flavorings in refill fluids are linked to cytotoxicity, which could adversely affect EC users.

What would or will happen if and when you lose any and all trust in the Brits, too ? … :stuck_out_tongue: … Could be blissful.

3 Likes
12

In this study,

*" One hundred micrograms of benzaldehyde (100 µg, >99%; Sigma-Aldrich, St. Louis, MO), trans -cinnamaldehyde (98+%; Alfa Aeasar, Haverhill, MA), citral (mixture of the structural isomers neral and geranial; 95%, Fisher Scientific, Waltham, MA) ethylvanillin (99%), and vanillin (99%; both Sigma-Aldrich) were added to plastic vials containing 5 g G (USP-FCC grade, Waltham, MA), or mixtures of PG/VG (anhydrous; AmericanBio, Natick, MA) at 70/30, 50/50, or 30/70 ratios by weight, to yield an aldehyde concentration of 20 mg/g"

That’s just not a lot of cinnamon. I use 1/4 of a milligram in my favorite cinnamon/cutard based juice. That’s 250 microgram, quite a bit more than used in the test.

I’m torn on this. After 26 years of smoking, I view the risk of vaping diacetyls to be almost negligible and certainly one I’m will to take. I’ve tried the butric acid alternatives and they’re horrible to me.

However, I’ve never had any noticeable effects from diacetyls where I have with cinnamon. That being said, I’ve just returned from 45 minutes of swimming laps with my boys. Before vaping I wouldn’t have lasted more than 15 minutes. I have already limited my use of RC by amount and frequency. I’ll vape it for 3-4 days then leave it for 2 weeks (the great advantage of having at least 20 ADVs). I guess I’ll keep at it while staying alert for any reactions.

This really does illustrate an important point, imo. Compared to smoking, vaping is much safer, as we all know. But even if we don’t want to admit it, there are probably some things about it that aren’t healthy.

From what I can see, I don’t think these studies were out to bash vaping. I very well may be wrong, but they’re definitely not in Glantz’s league.

3 Likes
13

@Raven-Knightly

Thanks for those links they’re helpful and informative. I do appreciate the effort you put into finding these studies and then posting them here.

3 Likes
14

You bet, Natbone ! While there truly are socio-political forces at play, and all claims should be viewed and considered carefully, one can potentially learn and hopefully make progress towards discerning a bit here and there from all kinds of sources. We all operate with confirmation (as well as non-confirmation) biases - and many sources of information are unlikely to neatly fit into simplistic pre-ceptions, making things complex.

I see that Erythropel, et al have just published an analysis of such (room temperature, rather than heated) e-juice chemical reaction products found in certain JUUL e-juice flavors. Unfortunately, it is behind a pay-wall (which I feel can be a way of controlling information) - but this NPR article talks just a bit about it. The NPR article is typical of a trend of rather poorly-sourced and investigated articles concerning “medicinal science” - where the (socio-politically deemed to be) demonized substances of the hour (be they pharmaceutical Opioids, or Nicotine, or any molecule considered to induce “states of psychological well being”) are reported on in a breathless (and all too often “brainless”) manner. Nothing terrifies us as do our own “pleasures”. :thinking:

I tire of (even NPR) thriving on vague and ominous references - that when followed, provide little in the way of distinct thus reliable source-information. A good example is NPR’s refererence to the recent Children’s Hospital of Wisconsin announcement that eight teenagers had been hospitalized with “seriously damaged lungs” over the month of July. These things are becoming click-bait feeding-frenzies - revealing the popularly infused fashionable socio-political prejudices of the day. Rationality cedes to hysterical moralizing rituals - all too often idiotically divorced from, and quite “orthagonal” to, serious and real pharmacology and toxicology.

.

All that being said, I try to take an active interest in my health (after 48 years of stoggies just about took me out completely around a year ago). It does seem that the various sugars that give tobacco as well as the synthetic flavorings their tastes are not free from involving a relatively large array of chemical by-products warranting legitimate cautions - particularly in cases where vaping coil-wick interfaces exceed ~200 *C. My new Pico 25 (in TC mode) is teaching me more specifics about temperatures reached to achieve desired (in my case, NET juice) “flavor”. Yes, (relatively so) less dangerous than tobacco combustion - but it seems that inhaling pleasureful “sugar fumes” (particularly with compromised lungs) is not without possible risks ?

I am discovering (from Pico 25 temperature data when using my Kayfun 5 RTA) that my Sigelei 30W mini (with 30 Hz PWM) provides it’s NET-juice calibrated pleasures by appearing to take coil-wick temperatures above 200 *C (:grimacing:) … however, it also seems (in the case of my NET-juice) it is most pleasureful (in the course of a puff) to come up from from below a coil-wick interface temperature of around 160 *C (where many of the sugar-related molecules likely begin to decompose). It seems as if newly “busted up” flavor molecules is a part of the pleasures surrounding perception of “flavor” ? If the (average) coil-wick interface temperature remains above that “temperature transition area”, then taste experience becomes “bland”.

Had not considered, but now realize the extent of chemical activities (also) proceeding while coil-wick interface cools between puffs, and remaining at elevated temperatures around (and to some extent below) 100 *C. Given that it makes a great deal of sense to restrict coil-wick interface temperatures to less than Nicotine boiling/decomposition ~247 *C, I’m not sure that I really understand blasting things with “giga-watts”. Sure, the coil-wick interface warms faster initially - but once (by some means) limited, the average coil-wick interface temperature still (at least it seems in the case of my NET juices) needs to cool-off back to lower temperatures before my next puff (in the interest of “flavor”) - and the larger the composite coil-mass, the longer that cool-down takes to occur. My personal approach is to minimize power and maximize Nicotine concentration. The multiplicative product of Watts times Nicotine (in mg/ml) that (in my own experience) satisfies is ~111. Increasing Nicotine concentration does not require waiting around for coils to cool off, and it appears to be cheaper as well as likely safer than ginormous brute-force battery power solutions !

4 Likes
15

Oh, so it is a real problem even at a very small dose then? I really didn’t know that.

@Raven-Knightly , I read your post with an unhealthy dose of scepticism at first, and drew a somewhat jerk - ish conclusion. For that, I am terribly sorry.

3 Likes
16

Check out Danish Pastry by Nature’s Flavors (NF), available at diyvaporsupply.com. it has a very nice bakery Cinnamon that is well-balanced and a bit in the background. If you’re going for a dessert Cinnamon effect, use it between 0.2% and 2% depending depending on how you like it to sit in a mix. It is a great flavor and also provides a Cream Cheese Icing aspect. It can go up to 3 or 4% as a standalone.

@Jhughes654021, I hit the reply button from your first post, but it didn’t link, so I’m tagging you :slight_smile:

2 Likes
17

When I post quoted excerpts from various sources about this or that, rather than trying to make a definitive sweeping statement as to the absolute truth or falsehood of (this or that) stated thesis, I am showing a bit of things that I am finding which may (possibly) interest others, and invite their scrutiny. It’s not unusual that the business of reading and assessing such information sources is not necessarily a simple/easy undertaking - for me or (most likely) for anybody else. Thus, such quoted snippets are references (of possible interest) - and not “pronouncements” regarding a purported absolute state of facts and things. An important distinction.

There is no “unhealthy dose of skepticism” in my book (as many claims rightly deserve cautious scrutiny) - but I very much appreciate and respect when folks (such as yourself) have the composure and wisdom to recognize there (may, possibly) be some things to learn from some considerations (and not just summary rejections) of information that (may, possibly) not be what we might preferably wish to see and hear - and graciously do not choose to attack the (in these cases with my own references, not particularly “partisan”) intentions, intelligence, and integrity of (merely curious and well meaning) “messengers”. I do believe that competent adults have natural rights to control their own bodies/minds - as well as to inform themselves and reach their own conclusions. Bless your heart for your thoughtful consideration. It is much appreciated ! :slightly_smiling_face:

4 Likes
18

Your last 3 paragraphs are quite interesting and have given me something to really think about. I have to admit I’ve tried to keep my vaping as simple and easy as possible. This is mainly due to not wanting to spend too much time and effort on it as time is limited. I typically take a juice I like, find a wattage range based on ohm and flavor and stay there. However, I think I’ll put some thought and effort into what you wrote. Thanks.

1 Like
19

Natbone, I can only speak with (some) certainty regarding my own experiences with dripping and tanking (my own derived) NET flavored e-juices - but it is true that (independent of coil resistance, assuming functional capability of any given mod used at such coil resistances) that the power (in Watts) dissipated in the coil is but a vehicle to reaching a particular range of temperature(s) in the coil-wick interface area(s). Some folks report that higher Nicotine concentrations are hard to tolerate. I personally find that up to ~18 mg/ml (or so) of Nicotine (base) is not problematic - if/when the wattage used to heat the coil(s) remains in a range of 6-8 Watts (or so). Other folks may have different impressions (?) Have (in my own experience) found that the “multiplicative product of Watts times Nicotine concentration” number remains relatively constant (based on my own impressions). Thus, I find that I am able to reduce Wattages and increase Nicotine concentrations.

That various chemical complexities (and some possibly resulting physiological liabilities) increase with increasing coil-wick interface temperatures (albeit short of “combustion”) seems to be very likely in general.

2 Likes
20

My Holy Grail from the beginning has been a Cinnamon Roll / Cinnamon Pastry. I’ve tried so many recipes, others and my own, but have yet to reach a level that’ll satisfy my craving. I just checked Nature Flavors site and they have two versions, one of which is organic. Have you tried the organic one? If so, how is it? Thanks.

2 Likes