yeah their only problem is they can’t find my house which is a big plus
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Perhaps it is high time to stock the moat with a fresh stock of Nicotine starved and ornery hungry Alligators?
Source: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/0b/67/b70b6703defe422c9e22962f42a35277.jpg
" I VAPE … I MOAT "
Source: https://video-images.vice.com/articles/5c8ff2420b0ce80007883e9e/lede/1552937621719-happygator.jpeg
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Now that the intentionally specious CDC/FDA tactics of attempting to fallaciously smear Nicotine vaping by falsely associating such with thickening additives present in illicit Cannabis “oils” may be receding into the dustbin of politically weaponized pseudo-science history - and after widespread intentional reg. damage has already occurred in multiple jurisdictions - (perhaps) these words of cooler/wiser heads may be beneficial:
Discussions of vaping … often neglect distinctions between nicotine and THC; between adults and youth; and between products obtained through the retail and black markets. As we move to confront these challenges, we face the danger that justifiable alarm will turn alarmist, short-circuiting careful analysis of the full range of evidence and focusing attention on the most frightening, thus enhancing the prospect of adopting counterproductive policy. We suggest that the evidence warns against prohibitionist measures. Restricting access and appeal among less harmful vaping products out of an abundance of caution while leaving deadly combustible products on the market does not protect public health …
… In the ongoing investigation to determine the causes of illness and death, the CDC identified vitamin E acetate, a THC product additive, as “a chemical of concern.” Nicotine or flavored vaping liquids have not yet been implicated. Even as the investigation was under way, interest in prohibitionist measures swelled.
… In the United States, broad comfort with using harm reduction as a kind of policy language evaporated in the face of evidence that both the promise and peril of safer nicotine delivery alternatives to combusted tobacco that we have imagined for more than half a century materialized at the intersection of the twin phenomena of increased youth vaping and acute lung injuries and deaths. …
… we suggest that careful analysis of all the data in context indicates that the net benefits of vaped nicotine products outweigh the feared harms to youth. … The impact of the black market, a source of contaminated THC-based oils, has been devastating. … public health measures must not neglect distinctions between nicotine and THC as well as between products obtained through the retail and black markets. … there is evidence that in the face of bans, adolescent vapers switch to smoking. Regulation inevitably produces the possibility of the black market … In the case of adult smokers, there is solid scientific evidence that vaping nicotine is much safer than smoking. …
… Although it may be decades before we fully understand the long-term consequences of vaping nicotine without smoke, many argue that we know enough and stress that too many smokers die every day we delay taking reasonable and rational action based on the science to date. Evidence from multiple strong observational studies and randomized trials suggests that vaping nicotine is more appealing and more effective than NRT at displacing smoking. …
… Making policy in the absence of evidentiary certainty must involve trade-offs. Policy action has consequences for those who have never smoked, especially youth. It also has implications for current and future smokers. … The most conservative estimates suggest that were vaping nicotine to replace most smoking over the next 10 years, 1.6 million premature deaths would be avoided and 20.8 million quality adjusted years of life would be saved in the United States alone. …
… The mounting numbers of acute lung injuries and deaths linked to vaping illicit THC cartridges have understandably fueled a policy impulse to do something. Although blanket bans on all devices, all types of liquids (with or without nicotine or THC), or flavors other than tobacco may provide immediate relief to our collective sense of urgency when it comes to protecting youth, the landscape has changed over the past decade. The calculus is no longer limited to nicotine vaping. Proposed solutions that conflate vaping THC oils with nicotine or with flavors, and that may lose sight of population-wide issues while focusing on subsets of the population may do more harm than good.
Whatever specific regulations and policies are promulgated at local, state, national, or international levels, policies or regulations must be risk-proportionate. The most harmful products on the nicotine-harm continuum, combustible products, should be much more aggressively and stringently regulated than less harmful noncombusted nicotine products. Policies that fail to differentiate will fail public health.
Source: “Evidence, alarm, and the debate over e-cigarettes - Prohibitionist measures threaten public health”
A related recent WIRED article wherein the reference to the above-quoted paper was initially identified.
A more recently published Reason Magazine article referencing and discussing the above-quoted paper.
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Yea the whole THC cannibis “oils” Blackmarket thing? Im not buying that $#!7 anymore either.
I think the administration is hiding something bigger.
The facts:
CDC and FDA are involved, tossing the very serious word EPIDEMIC around.
Vaping been around 10+ years with no issues. (They can’t use that scape goat)
Teens and Parents of Teens would rather have them vape than smoke real cigarettes and tell them to F-off
They use the Blackmarket and THC as an excuse for the causes of 2000 illnesses and dozens of deaths. (Sounds dubious still)
Then anyone with a brain can google “list of current epidemics” and what you will find is the MERS virus which is presently still around and reports of person to person infections have been reported. And the symptoms match like a shopping list compared to what they told us so far, of the cases they found.
Im not an expert or even have a clue about this kind of stuff. But… If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck… it’s probably a duck. And we all have heard at some point in our lives… about …how due to antibiotic use the viruses are getting smarter. So whats the real deal here?
I think the real question are: Are they hiding something more sinister and not wanting to panic the people, or trying to hide facts?.. Because their administration will go down in history as one that didn’t catch or do anything about a population threatening REAL viral epidemic? And are they now trying to blame it on some shadow black market that seems to be everywhere and no-where?
Or is the CDC and FDA hiding other epidemic type facts from their commander and chief? Knowing they will probably get their @$$ canned?
We need some real NEWS or Political investigation into this. Because they all sound completely ignorant and desperate to find a scapegoat for the 2000 illness and dozens of deaths.
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Here’s some magical entertainment…
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Hang on, just let me get this straight … “teens who vape are more likely to start smoking cigarettes”. Mate, are you for real? Not many times I feel like punching someone but I’m pretty close right now… 
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I’m following Paul Blair on Twitter, and once again we are being told that the flavor ban is not off the table. Back on twitter imploring Trump, Azar, and FDA Steve to reconsider.
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We have some new data on the potential number of adult vapers in every single one of the 17 battleground states being targeted by @realDonaldTrump @parscale in 2020, as estimated by recent @GallupNews. The data shows that there are 9.2 million vapers in these states. A THREAD...
— Paul Blair (@gopaulblair) November 4, 2019
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My sentiments exactly 
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I wanted to share where you can download a PDF to share with any of your local politicians or even physicians that offers a TON of advice and comes from a reputable organization, the Heartland institute. Thanks to David Higginbotham, I was able to give the book to our Rep here in Alabama and he already had great respect for the institute. https://www.heartland.org/publications-resources/publications/vaping-e-cigarettes-and-public-policy-toward-alternatives-to-smoking. A great resource!!!
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you’re welcome and it really is a good read 
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Hi mr.Raven-Knightly.What exactly do you mean net devotee.it has something to do with tobbaco extracts and if yes how this apply in harm reduction than synthetic.Thanks for advice
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Hi Chris.
Yes, that is my semi-humorous way of describing my extracting/using NET flavorings.
In searching the internet among (no-charge) documents, this study is all that I have come up with:
Results Summary Tables:
(Table 1): Table - PMC
(Table 2): Table - PMC
(Table 3): Table - PMC
PDF Version: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4410195/pdf/ijerph-12-03439.pdf
4. Discussion
This is the first study to evaluate a specific group of EC liquids, using cured tobacco leaves to extract the flavouring (NET liquids), for the presence of selected tobacco-derived toxins. None of the liquid samples was free from potentially harmful chemicals. Compared to conventional liquids, levels of TSNAs and formaldehyde were similar in NET liquids, as was the deviation from labelled nicotine content of the samples. Phenols were more prevalent in NET liquids, while acetaldehyde was found predominantly in conventional liquids. A characteristic finding in NET liquids was the nearly universal presence of nitrate. Of note, the levels of TSNAs and nitrate in EC liquids were 1 to 2 orders of magnitude lower compared to tobacco products. …
… Two of the NET samples evaluated in this study were previously examined in aerosol form to determine their cytotoxic properties on cultured cardiomyoblasts. They were found to be cytotoxic, although at levels significantly lower compared to tobacco cigarette smoke. Interestingly, these samples showed a lower chemical constituent profile in the testing herein; in particular, they contained very low levels of TSNAs and no nitrate, while levels of aldehydes were similar to conventional liquids. They both contained phenols, although at very low levels. It is probable that some other chemicals, not evaluated in this study, may be responsible for the cytotoxic properties. …
5. Conclusions
In this study, EC liquids were evaluated for the presence of selected tobacco-derived chemicals. A specific category of liquids, produced by extracting flavour from cured tobacco leaves, was evaluated and compared with conventional liquids of tobacco flavour. Nicotine content did not deviate by more than 22% in any liquid, with more than half of them being within the 10% range which is accepted for pharmaceutical products. None of the liquids was free from potentially harmful chemicals. NET liquids could result in exposure to somewhat higher levels of toxins compared to conventional EC liquids, especially for nitrate and phenols. Major tobacco-derived toxins, such as TSNAs and nitrates, were present at very low levels compared to tobacco products. Further studies should evaluate whether these chemicals are emitted to the aerosol, while clinical studies will determine whether the levels of toxins found in EC liquids and aerosol are associated with adverse health effects.
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Thank you Sir.a lot to read!
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@Raven-Knightly
Wonderful reading.i will make the switch to NET and will stop expirimenting with synthetic flavours as i found that maltol and ethyl maltol vanillin etc is the most cytotoxic even in small amounts and that things are in almost every flavour no matter the vendor(more than acetoin or propionyl wow).
Am sorry for polluting the thread.Delete my comments if you like
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It seems that a lot of folks have not the patience to macerate Tobacco (in PG seems best overall) for a few months time, then strain and filter - so make sure that you are up for performing the “requisites”.
You could use this forum’s search-engine (but it will likely only return a few “hits”).
For more comprehensive coverage of the previous threads on this forum regarding NETs, Google:
site:forum.e-liquid-recipes.com “NET”
Absolutely no apologies are necessary whatsoever, my friend ! NETs are “esoteric”, but interesting.
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Probably i will try ready made for start and see along how it goes.All i wanted was to find a tobbaco replacement not a cheesecake.It took me almost a 150 flavours and months of diy to realize that.
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Just remember that NETs cannot simulate the flavors of combusted Tobacco smoke. It’s more like the “aroma” (and related taste) of non-combusted Tobacco. My favorite NET (a combination of Virginia / Perique / Cavendish / White Burley) smells kind of like un-smoked “Luck Strikes”. I much prefer it to the (Vapage) “Classic Tobacco” cart-juice that problematically irritated my lungs (possibly from the presence of the ubiquitous Acetyl Pyrazine as a component), and as a result landed me here at the ELR forum.
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I ve tried alot of synthetic and wasn’t impressed until I’ve tried a net cubano ready made from nobacco stores and said wow…but 8 euro 10ml wasnt for me. probably i will need some advices from you.where can a find you?
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