FDA | What’s Gottlieb Thinking?


Well, the start was sort of good but I always get extremely uncomfortable when I listen to speeches made by guys in suits and ties.
Some of them are really good in wrapping things up in shiny paper with a big bow tied around it but there’s usually something ugly hidden under all the glitter.

I’m afraid that no matter who runs the show, pro or anti vaping, they are going to drown it in regulation.
They are not going to consult with the vaping community but will hire know it all experts who know nothing and something hideous will come out of all of that.

These people are too far removed from society as most of us know it. They live in their own privileged bubble and have no clue about peoples needs.
They were clueless in the past, they are clueless now and they will be clueless in the future.


@Josephine_van_Rijn you are so smart. Thanks for the breakdown. This topic got quiet because you said it all. So let me fuck all that up.

There has been recent discussion about Juices and hardware with “Kid appeal” …let’s not go back there, but you can see (after watching @Duchesst’s video above) they are still clinging to that one foot-in-the-door. It’s up to the Vaping Industry to self-regulate or invite heavy-handed intervention wrapped in the “Let’s do it for the Kids!” flag.

[insert fuckery here] I say we go in the opposite direction. Example: I’m working on this dynamite Birthday Cake and Ice Cream e-juice …to Hell with Kids, I like BD Cake and Ice Cream and I’m old, and I wanna vape it… so, let’s not call it “Sweet Sixteen” and put it in a sparkly box printed with streamers, balloons, and candles. Let’s call it “Your Mom’s Vagina” (begging your Lady’s pardon). See where I’m going with this?

Repulsion intended, as opposed to attraction. So this sweet sweet Strawberry Sugar Cookie e-juice we can call it “Homework” or “My Dad is Gay” …maybe the kids won’t wanna risk having Mom or Dad finding that in their backpack. I just think the Industry needs a little direction and who better to make suggestions than ELR?

[fuckery continues]
So, instead of “Juicy Juice Apple” with the image of a Capri Sun Squeezie pack on the label/box, what names can we come up with for ADULT ONLY e-juice names for juices we like, but kids would surely be attracted to? Heh looking at the Recipe’s database there are already quite a few, but allow me one more.
Juicey Juice Apple? …just put “Anal” in front of everything. “Hey Billy? are YOU vaping!? OMG your Mom is gonna find out …what flavor is that?”
“Err uhh, Anal Apple…”
“That’s Disgusting! …have you tried Your Mom’s Vagina?”

Maybe the Industry needs a Seal for a Vaping Advocacy Approved Flavor Naming Convention …we can call it …Kids Repulsion Advertising Program or K.R.A.P.
…it could happen


Well i do not know what the US rules are on vaping, so let me put that first as some sort of a disclaimer.

I actually think this is something positive. It is my understanding that the FDA was on the brink of bringing down the hammer on vaping, and choke the industrie to death or at least strangle it that one would have to be a serious masochist to push on.
At least now they have thrown a bone. In the sense of ok we are willing to let this happen but we do have some issues, so get your shite together and come talk to us.
Are there gonna be stupid rules we don’t agree with? Sure, and prices are going to go up cause they are gonna want a piece of the pie ( and probably not a small one). But if you think even for one minute that there could be a way that goverment wouldn’t get involve then i have a suggestion for you. Severly drop your nicotine lvl and/or alcohol intake, get a reality check and make sure you’re not living in wonderland.
And believe me their was/is enough pressure by the bootleggers and the priests to shut vaping down completely. And except for a small minority (mainly us vapers) no one would care enough to do something about it.


I’m sorry but every time I read stuff like this I feel like I’ve eaten crazy pills along with my stupid porridge. They’re worried about vaping being a “gateway” to smoking. For god’s sake cigarettes kill over 300,000 people in the US every year and that’s just the US. Add all the countries together and multiplied millions of people die from tobacco related diseases every year. Where is the FDA regulation and control for cigarettes? Why aren’t they up in arms to ban that toxic habit? I guess if Congress wasn’t bought and paid for by Big Tobacco we might be hearing a different tune…


The goverment doesn’t care if you poison yourself with cigarettes, as long if they can make a profit from it its ok with them. And now they want a piece of the vaping industrie, if its not big enough they will ban it


It’s cutting into the profits from the multi-billion$ tobacco industry from which they benefit…


It does but don’t forget the pharmaceutical industry, they make even more money especially when you get sick.

They have taxed tobacco to the max because of the damage it does to peoples health instead of banning it. That puts them in the same category as drug dealers IMO. Worse because of the hypocritical stance they’re adopting.

Now there’s this new thing that is far less damaging so their excuse for max tax will not fly so they’ve decided to open up another can of kids.
Personally I’m starting to hate the little buggers (not that they can help it) :smiling_imp:

Where’s the outrage and discussion about flavoured alcohol?
I don’t now about the US but here binge drinking is a big thing amongst young people.
It started in Britain and has spread like an oil stain through the rest of Europe.

They have the usual laws about underaged drinking and marketing and that’s it, no adults are affected by it.
The same should go for vaping.
There are laws in place to prevent kids from purchasing tobacco products and it should end there**.**


As Pogo was once quoted as saying “We Have Met The Enemy and It Is Us”…

Untill the industry get’s its act together there will be little hope for Vaping. I was on one of my favorite hardware sites today looking for a good deal on a Pico when they blasted me with this:


I love my Pico, you know that they have released a new model? But even the old one with a Melo 3 tank (rebuildable and commercial coils) is still a great mod…

1 Like

When the 4 year extension was announced recently, I saw a number of ‘Vaping Saved!’ comments being tossed about. Some of the other comments were ‘Wow, that came out of the blue’…Wasn’t expecting that one’ … Where’d that come from?’ Needless to say, I think everyone was caught a bit off guard. I think a lot of people started dancing around the Vaping is Saved celebration campfire, and missed an important red flag in the extension announcement.

The Feds make the rules. A perfect example of Rule #1 is the extension itself. They can do an about face, and change their mind, without warning, as they see fit. As quickly as the extension comes, the extension can go. As @50YearsOfCigars ’ example shows, the industry itself could be responsible for a sudden about face, with irresponsible advertising like the one shown. Instead of emails to our public servants, supporting vaping, perhaps some emails to vaping retailers like the one above, might serve us better. Let them know we’re not going to order a damn thing from them, until they clean up their irresponsible advertising act. Eliminate some of the ‘But the children!’ ammo at the source. The anti vaping crowd can get a lot of mileage out of advertising like that.

Maybe an ‘Irresponsible Vape Advertising’ thread to post a notice, when we run across advertising like the example above. We could let them know, as responsible vapers and also parents, we will not support retailers that use advertising like that.

To close my long winded rant, I’ll offer a tip to those dancing around the ‘Vaping is Saved’ celebration campfire. When you want to toss another log on the fire, be careful. There’s still a nest of FDA Shitweasels living in the woodpile.

Don’t trust 'em. Stock up.


I agree 100% with your point of view. I had previously posted an almost identical POV in this post My post is a bit of a ramble, but it covers a lot of this same ground, including a lot of specific research I did to answer the question “Just who is, and what do we know about this fellow Gottlieb?” The answer might surprise you, he is a very wealthy businessman and investor with extensive ties to Big Pharma.


That is a darn good idea! I will call the Customer Service at elementVape tomorrow and give them an ear full… and,… go ahead and start that thread !


I think I do remember reading your post about Gottlieb, now that you mention it. That was interesting info.

I think my distrust lies more with the policy makers as a whole, than Gottlieb himself (although I think he’s a fine poster boy for examples why). It goes against my grain when someone tells me they are protecting me from myself, as if I’m incapable of making a decision about what’s good for me. I’m sure most folks feel the same way.

I’m not a long time vaper. Maybe 2 1/2 yrs or so. It didn’t take long for me to realize this was my key, to staying away from smoking, for good. About that same time, I started reading about the FDA’s possible interference to my smoking substitute that was working better than I ever dreamed it could. Right then and there, I decided that was not going to happen. I wasn’t going to just hope for the best (my trust issue with the policy makers). I discovered my highest satisfaction for replacing cigs, was at lower power levels. That’s where I focused my gear search. Reliable, single cell mods. Rebuildable tanks that are easy to maintain, and DIY juice making. I wanted to be as self sufficient as reasonably possible. That’s what I stocked up on.

I couldn’t fight the FDA, so I bought insurance (gear) against them pulling the rug out from under me. I set my plan for 20 years. I’m 63, so it wasn’t a Herculean task to assemble enough stuff to (hopefully) meet my goal. I’m not a latest & greatest gear chaser. My stuff is probably considered old tech. It worked out well, because most of it was picked up on clearance sales, very cheaply…lol.

It feels good to be at this point. I could just lay back and watch the FDA show, and not give a crap about what they do, but I grew up in the 60’s. I like giving the finger to the establishment, and sticking up for what I believe is our right to pursue a healthier lifestyle.


I and I think many others here stock up as well, although my horizon lies a couple of decades further.
But I think if we can in anyway help insure that vaping sticks around for those following in our footsteps, we should. And right now it seems we need to help the industry to regulate itself, like letting them know stupid add like the one above are not A oké. And their I say? Help regulate some vapers themselves? In setting realistic expectations and socially acceptable vaping behaviour?


I’m glad you made that point as I was just going to say something along those lines.


I’ve given your comment a lot of thought, since you posted it. That’s a slippery slope. I do agree that the door is open for vapers themselves to be irresponsible, in the public’s eyes. I think the only ‘safe’ comment is how I personally handle that open door.

I treat it the same way I did, when I was smoking, or when farting in public. I try and be mindful and considerate of those around me. I’m more of a fly under the radar type. I’ve never found it that difficult to pick my spots.That’s just me.


Hmm when you mentioned the slippery slope i took another long hard look at my post, and i see it may come across wrong. My intentions are surely not to forcefully take stuff away from vapers (we got the fda and such for that). But a bit of sensibilization might go along way. In the sense that you don’t need the latest crazy ass cloud chaser machine to get satisfaction or the best flavor (a specially towars beginners), that it is not ok to sell/advertise/etc to minors, that without clear local rules it isn’t ok to just vape in non smoking buildings without prior consent, to not just let your vapor hit every ones faces (hey it smells like candy is not an excuse). Cause if you do these things we will get a bad reputation (even worse then now) and it will cause us harm in the long run.


My brazen response was focused on how this is an attempt to model our behavior on a false basis. While valid in the extreme, it’s easy to agree no one should be trying to blatantly promote vaping to the underaged, but I see it as a demonstration of Regulators flexing Social control. Like your Dad threatening to pull the car over while trying to simultaineously taking a swerving backswing at you in the back seat.

Self-regulation is just smart, and having some empathy for the clearly shocked non-smoking Citizenry …regardless of how mis-informed they may be, makes some sense. I’m just personally not known for tip-toeing through the emotional eggshells of the overly sensitive. Being reasonable and respectful is advised, but how far do we bend before a wee bit of pushback on foolish ignorance.

While we advisedly self-regulate, the focus should be on the Science of social vaping safety and educating the people who say stuff like “OMG! did you know you’re inhaling anti-freeze!” I mean you can’t lay your hands on them, but the truth needs to be presented by someone who can make them listen. I hate to say it, but maybe this Gottlieb guy could make that happen? Listening to some of the things he says, he seems to be on the track, but I fear it’s more like “let’s wait to kill vaping until Big Tobacco and Big Pharma can dominate this new marketplace”. It’s always about the money, and never about Reality or Justice.

On “giving people a piece of your mind”? It would appear that’s already happening where it counts in the Distribution channel. Not sure how we could insert our own watchdogs there, and they may already exist. I mean they are protecting their own long goals, by not buying/selling/promoting offending brands. My joke was taking the false assumption all the way to the opposite extreme, but selling sexy named e-juice is also happening (sex sells). I do think a slack retailer might be a liitle more unllikely to sell a porny labeled e-juice to an underaged buyer. Imagine that backlash!

So there’s my final point. You may understand how false the original “Keep the Kids Safe!” basis is once you understand it doesn’t matter what we do. They’ll always be able to just come up with another angle to crush DIY and small-brand E-juice. How many times do we need to see this? How can we expect it to end in our favor? Our reprieve is short, so enjoy!


The slippery slope I referred to was more of a forum thing. In this large and diverse group of vaping aficionados, we have both ends of the scale and everything in between. From many celled flamethrowers to flea powered tootle puffers. All types are legal to buy and use as the buyer wishes, as it should be.

There is some good discussion and views to be had and shared on this topic. I didn’t want to see the thread deteriorate into one type of vaper vs another type of vaper, and their right to vape as they wish.

For a large part of the public, I’m sure vaping is still an oddity. They haven’t had a need to learn the truths and misinformation associated with it. Forcing them to deal with a face full of Bongo’s Apple Cinnamon Raz-Ma-Tazz may not be the most prudent way (for us) to get their vaping education off on the right foot.