Welcome @Choca 
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Welcome to ELR @Choca
If you read through the posted links, you’ll be up to speed in no time mixing your ingredients.
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Sorry I’m very late to the party and I haven’t seen anyone else mention it, but could it be Vanilla Swirl from TPA? That one can easily tone down other flavors and has a wide working range. If you haven’t experimented with it yet, give it a try.
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So I’ve been mixing and vaping a cereal and milk mix since I started DIY about 18 months ago.
I pretty much only use TFA Berry Crunch, and I use milk, Bavarian, custard, graham, maltol, marshmallow and cookie or biscuit. I’ve used the same general formula, just trying different creams and milks.
About a month ago, it was like my taste buds just stopped tasting cereal. All I taste is my added berries and milk/cream. I’ve gotten so desperate that at one point I mixed the Berry Crunch at like 12%.
I’ve tried maltol, pyrazine, adding in other cereals, buying a new bottle of flavor twice… I’m stunned and deeply confused.
I know there’s a good chance that in my panic and raising the percentage, I have messed it up, but I really don’t see how if you used too much of a flavor you would taste it less. It may taste awful, but you’re gonna notice it, right?
I came to DIY From Breakfast At Teleos- which is a Berry Crunch and milk.
I’ve tried others’ recipes, to no avail.
One thing I wonder about- I often find more than one of the same flavor that I like. For instance, I love TPA Strawberry Ripe, but also FA Red Touch and CAP Sweet Strawberry. So I’ll make my own concentrates using all three. I also do this with custards and sweet dreams… I went and go a little nuts with the flavor purchases.
Do you think I’m muddying it up?
What could possibly have changed so drastically in a month that suddenly I can’t make the same recipe I’ve been mixing for a year and 7 months?
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Easy. Basically, you can end up super-saturating your taste buds, at which point they “revolt”, and in essence become immune to the offending flavor (typically the dominant one).
However, the use of Ethyl Maltol can twist the phenomena even further, sometimes yielding unanticipated results.
Personally, I would suggest going back to one of your older iterations (that you hopefully saved) and start by omitting the EM.
Balancing flavors is IMO the single largest, most important, yet most difficult thing to learn in mixing. Using EM early on is the equivalent of using a sledgehammer for something that only needs a small screwdriver. 
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Come to think of it… I’ve been using EM for about the same length of time I’ve been having issues… Wow.
I thought it was just a sweetener that gave a nice kind of malty feel?
Can’t wait to try an old one sans maltol!
BTW, do you follow the percentage listed on your ELR stash with everything? Or just experiment?
I’m just wondering how accurate the preferred single flavor mix thing is, and whether pros like you follow it? I’ve seen a lot of recipes that are usually the higher rates ones using either a fraction or double of what is recommended.
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The only time I use those numbers is for reference (to compare my actual findings to what’s listed at the time I checked them).
I SFT everything. With all the hardware differences (both atty and mod performance), and individual preferences reflected in the ‘averages’ numbers, you have to bear in mind how the advances (in just the last 3 years, let alone the Ego days) affect those numbers. Not to mention how far removed someone is or is not from smoking. In other words, how recovered are the taste buds of the individual keying in their preferences.
Newer flavors are usually a bit more accurate (by newer I mean those introduced in the last couple of years). But even then, there are still the above variances to account for.
I’m by no means a pro… Closer to being “intermediate or advanced” I would guess. But I have learned quite a bit in the last three years. Both by watching others who fall in line with my preferences, and of course by trial and error through a SHITLOAD of testing.
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Okay. So now I’m screwed! I’m a concentrate fiend and it would take me a year to SFT all of my flavors.
Also- never came up with a somewhat simple way to do it. At one time I bought tiny 3ml bottles and just did VG and each flavor, but I was then changing out a wick every two seconds… I never did it because I order so many at a time lol.
I guess at the very least I could start making smaller batches and starting low with everything, so I know where I want to be.
So when you order ten concentrates at a time, you test each one? Lol I am so overwhelmed.
I was so happy and doing great, loving mixing and loving my mixed and saving so much cash and now it’s like I forgot what good juice tastes like!
I do remember I tasted more when I used Pyure when it first came out, than the TFA sucra/maltol? sweetener I use now.
As I understand it, the old Pyure had citric acid in it and that they took it out.
Ordered some erythritol, as I heard it’s clean and doesn’t gunk stuff up so much.
What sweetener do you use, if any?
Thanks for your help! 
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Welcome to my world! 
I’d say that’s a good idea!
There’s a lot of different approaches, and I’m not saying mine is the best. What I am saying is that it’s the best approach for me.
Very early in, I planned on being in this for the long haul. So I knew that learning what each flavor brought (or lacked) would prove more beneficial in the long term (when it comes to creating recipes using flavors that I know I prefer). Rather than have to figure out what ‘piece’ is not playing well in the puzzle (mix).
I’ve also learned in the process (of testing) that I prefer (frequently modern) alternatives to many of the established and older recommended flavors.
EG: TFA strawberry ripe, and Cap sweet strawberry were THE most recommended flavors for the profile for years. I find them to be very lacking (for my desires/goals).
Yes. Though not necessarily ‘instantly’. In several cases, I’ve done batches. For example, I’ll wait until I have however many of a given flavor profile before I consider testing them.
EG: Say brown sugar. I took 4 or 5 different brands of brown sugar and mixed three bottles of each at different percentages since I didn’t know my preference. Doing them at the same time does two things. 1. It allows me to find which one I suits my expectations (flavor-wise). 2. It gives me a much better indication of what percentage I need to be targeting.
The reason I have done some of these this way is because it’s far easier to judge them side by side.
Factor in that your mouth/mental perception can change (day to day in some cases) with diet, etc, your notes (or memory) may not be as accurate as you might hope. Testing side by side, and being at the same “age” (level of progression in permeating the VG) allows me to get the most accurate comparison (whether the mix is one day old, or a month).
Currently, I have Cap super sweet, and pure Stevia (in water) from Nicotine_River.
I rarely use either FWIW. But I regard them as an accent, rather than a flavor. And it’s not often I find myself needing/wanting those notes.
Bear in mind, I’m the type who can take a bite of a chocolate chip cookie, and within moments tend to go “too much vanilla”, or there was not enough xyz… I don’t do it intentionally, it’s just innate at this point. I’m the same way with textures of food. lol
Anyways, as long as you’re not afraid to experiment, you WILL find what works for you! Don’t always take some “expert’s” word for it. There are some extremely talented and knowledgeable people here (without question!), but while they can definitely help suggest or guide you, it still comes down to how things affect your body and your taste buds!
I wouldn’t over think it. You sound like you are on solid footing if you enjoyed it for over a year. It’s just that part of your experiment turned out to be different than what you expected. It’s all part of the process. And the deeper you explore, the more you learn.
Enjoy the journey!
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I do understand what you are saying here, @Sprkslfly… however… I am the odd ball. I do not like to mix 3 of the same flavor profile separately because I like to try them on their own merit. What I will do is mix 4 to 10 different flavors and run then from .12% up to 1% so my tongue wont get confused… side by side compare, I will always toss something out that might have had a benefit… even at a later date lol… but for the most part of your posts here, you are correct (I am just the odd ball!)
I can say it is possible that you can burn out or kill, sometimes temporary often tho, forever on flavors you have over vaped… wish ya the best @Terra_R and post back on your results. 
Excellent, I agree too Have fun and try out new combos and other flavor lines!
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I think you misunderstand me (or I you lol).
For example, I’ll use my above reference (all are brown sugar):
FW: bottle 1 is 2%, bottle 2 is 4%, bottle 3 is 6%
Cap: same as above
TFA: same as above
RF SC: bottle 1 is 1%, bottle 2 is 2%, bottle 3 is 3%
I was pretty sure that’s exactly what I was doing. 
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Just saying I can’t do that, Rob…
anything of the same flavor - for me - is a loosing game. Doesn’t work well for me. I guess because I do enjoy the super concentrates and yeah… is fine. Good thing we are all different…
When I do solos, I do run 4 - 10 different types ( apple, banana blueberry )… especially when flv releases new ones… and I run each in 10 ml bottles, using 2 -3 drops on the first flavor and running it from that point, up to 2%… This way I have test samples in different amounts to pick from I can make notes on each amount used, none of them same flavor, different company 
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No problem. Wasn’t trying to “convert you” or anything. lol I was just trying to make sure you understood my approach, as I didn’t understand (still don’t actually) how your reply relates to mine (and my process).
I can’t make sense of this (as phrased).
Are you saying (for example) that:
You have 6 flavors, and use only 6 bottles…
Round 1
strawberry: 2 drops
blueberry: 2 drops
banana: 2 drops
Etc
Stop and test…
Round 2
add two drops of each flavor (so that now there’s 4 drops in each bottle.
Stop and test…
Round 3 (etc)
add two drops of each flavor (so that now there’s 6 drops in each bottle.
…all the way up to 2% for every flavor)?
Because that’s how I’m guessing/picturing your process, by the way it’s worded above.
This is simply finding your preference for percentage. And by doing it this way (I do understand) that you’re picking out what shines at what percentage, so you’ll know how to apply that later.
IF that’s the case, then I don’t understand when you say:
In what way? If they’re all the same amount, at the same point/time, then you don’t have different “amounts” to pick from. Only different flavors.
Or, if you vary single flavors (presumably one at a time) to adjust/tweak, by, let’s say leaving all other flavors at two drops (as in Round 1) and add pick one flavor, add two drops to the chosen tester… Then see how it plays with the others, which are still at two drops?
Whaaaat? 
You just totally twisted my noodle. LMAO
I don’t “get” that at all. As, if you’re not comparing the same flavor (profile), then we’re not talking about the same thing.
In my opinion, testing 3 of the same a profile is the whole point. As they HAVE to stand on ‘their own merit’ when compared side by side.
For me, it’s much easier to see what one lacks (or brings) when compared to its competitors, when you can test them side by side (same rigs used for each simultaneously, atty and mod).
If you’re constantly (even incrementally) adding to (changing) each flavor as you go, then I don’t understand how that gives you the ability (or opportunity) to:
Later…if you’re comparing apples to apples (so to speak) lol.
Yours truly,
Lost and confused
(for a moment) 
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eh, I know… just was explaining how I taste test solos… we all do things a bit different… is all good!
I think you have me wrong… I start each flavor in a 10ml bottle… with anywhere from 5 to 10 bottles in that set, depending on how high I want to go with them. 2-3 drops in bottle #1… bottle #2 gets double the 1st one, bottle number 3 gets 3 times the first one… and so on…
I do not vape the same say 2 drops for strawberry and then 2 drops pear… it’s more of a random plucking… I might go for a middle bottle with 4 drops in a 10ml and then a 2 drops with say pineapple… so my tongue won’t stray too bad…
if I did it the way you just posted it, of course the base would become smaller and the flavors would not be accurate. (ie try 2 drops, then add 2 more drops to the bottle, is why I use a lot of 10ml bottles with the strengths that move up)
If I am doing 4 flavors, with 5 bottles each in strengths… then that is a total of twenty bottles to pick from… in different amounts…
Vaping the same flavor (again strawberry) I do pick up how it grows in strength, but my tongue will get so wacked, I like to change up my flavors when testing and pick out other random flavors and strengths. I just can not do side by side and on different brands… body chemistry with me is a lot different. I do not gain much at all, or I am overwhelmed.
It’s funny how the human body does with each of us… otherwise it’d be pretty boring
Hope this makes better sense… 
forgot to add… when I am flavor testing, I keep all the notes per the flavor I am vaping and over time, I can fill pages up with my notes, pros & cons… what will go with it, what wont… what 2 drops tastes like and how I feel on 10 drops… it’s always good to keep up with it as over time, your taste buds change and your notes should be showing a reflection on that too
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So you do do it the same way I do! lol
You just have more samples of each, and you keep them on hand for a while (which I do not).
Much clearer now though, and I appreciate your clarification! 
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and I rarely get bored lmao… unless I have all my bottles mislabled and then its a rinse and repeat day 
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So I’ve done the couple of SFTs and I actually threw a couple of flavors to the side because they tasted awful when I tested them- but gave them a chance later and loved them!
Do you think this is a matter of the actual concentrate steeping- do the concentrates themselves steep with age? Or do you think it’s just a matter of something tasting good in a mix but not on its own?
BTW if you feel like I’m peppering you with questions- please tell me! 
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So when you do it, you don’t just try like, strawberry, strawberry, strawberry?
Because I did do my sweet creams (6) and found myself lost in the similarities.
So do you mean like, doing my 6 sweet creams and then say, my 5 pineapples and switch back and forth when I need?
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I’ve experienced similar, without a doubt.
There are also a few that simply can’t be “figured out” (appreciated) until you actually use them in a mix (and then you can sense them, thanks to the other flavors that complement and contrast it).
That’s much rarer IME, as usually, if I don’t like a flavor, it proves to be crappy in a mix too.
Minor point of clarification…
When you mention steeping, most mixers take that as referring to "how long it takes anything that’s not VG to meld into the VG.
The aging of flavors (which I typically think of either degradation or materials decomposition) is a whole other aspect to be mindful of.
In this case, I have definitely seen flavors altered from what was originally manufactured. Unfortunately however, this can be affected by anything from not being dispensed properly (being shaken before being rebottled by a reseller), to the container it’s stored in (glass, LDPE, etc), to the temperatures that the flavor is stored in, to actual (and unavoidable) separation of some flavor compounds in very short time frames.
Take FA strawberry for instance. Several of us have seen differences in a mix between shaking the bottle before you mix (and then later, when the remaining amount of flavor in the source bottle is lower, your mixes with the same bottle may seem like the flavor itself changed. In reality, it is probably because you can’t see the separation that occurs in the flavor when it’s clear (in color). As an extreme contrasting example, you CAN see the separation that can occur in a flavor like FA Cocoa. So you’re automatically reminded to shake that flavor before using it, because of the visual indicator.
(So it’s a better practice to just make sure you shake each flavor before you add it to a mix.)
But again, that’s not a flavor going bad. It’s user error.
Fortunately not many fall into the last two examples (FA strawberry and FA cocoa), not do I want anyone to take away from this that it’s just limited to FA (it’s not).
But if you are aware of these potential issues, and you have developed and apply “best practices” in your storage and mixing techniques, then you will find it much easier to identify when a flavor HAS in fact “gone bad”.
On that note, I had flavors go bad in as little as 6 months (which is usually a rare freak occurrence, unless you purchase ‘clearance flavors’, which can be perfectly fine, and it’s just a promotion. But frequently, with your better vendors who actually track the age of their inventory and know it’s nearing the end of its projected shelf life and want to pass along a deal for someone who will use it quickly) but the majority last at least a year (for me, using glass storage, and in a household temp of 68-70°F) and frequently longer still.
It all depends on the flavor (materials composition).
IMO understanding this, and especially how it applies to you, will only come with time and experience.
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I guess I meant, do flavors themselves change for the better, with age?
I used steeping because I guess I see that as an aging that is positive. But I know that that’s not the correct verbiage, hence the question about whether or not the word was correct, lol. Not used to not knowing words, being a writer!
I guess I meant to ask if it was possible that one could buy a flavor, test it and dislike it, and after it sat for awhile, try it again and enjoy it? More clear would be the question: do flavors ever get better with age? Or just degrade?
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