Flavor naming update #2 (naming convention)

Sprkslfly · January 2, 2019, 12:55am

I’m going to revert some (a majority of) the ones I’ve changed.

Eg:
vanilla, French
cream, Bavarian
Etc

This will take a bit, so please bear with me.
But, once “I think I’m finished”, I’ll ask for a collective “have you seen any I’ve missed”.

At which point, I’d be very appreciative for any assistance (or explain why I think it’s more beneficial as it stands, if one you find/suggest was actually intentionally omitted.)

Brands on the other hand, I still need to update the thread on abbreviations (I’ve found/added more to my running list), and there’s some aspects that need to be discussed and considered on that front as well.

There’s even more overlap than I shared previously, hence my frustration (and minor outburst) with the “Cheesecake (LorAnn)” mentioned previously elsewhere.
When you have so many variants in one brand, it can be maddening. And at times, it’s a cumulative effect that sneaks up on you…

LO (LorAnn Oils): which we DON’T want to use in our naming. Because while it’s technically correct as a brand name, I think we all agree that oils are not safe to vape (because they cannot be processed/absorbed by the lungs).

We (as a community) want vapers new to DIY to understand that *just because “Oils” is in the company name, that it does not mean that all of their flavors contain an oil (as an ingredient)! Obviously, the majority of those included in our database DO NOT CONTAIN oils, barring those that were keyed in by those testing in years gone by, OR those who accidentally purchased the wrong flavor variant (and keyed it into their stash) before becoming aware of the problem.

LA, LOR, LO, LAN (which could go either way, LA naturals, or LorANn), Lorraine (thanks to contractual rebranding with Chef’s UK), etc, etc.

It’s hard enough to wade through two or three options per brand (FA/TFA/appr for TPA), and then go through umpteen million variants and abbreviations per flavor.

But I’m starting to digress, so I’ll stop here for the moment.

anon28032772 · January 2, 2019, 1:10am

When talking about rebranded flavors, they’re basically the same flavor… is it possilbe to have the same flavor ID and have different names in the database (kind of like you can have a hard link to a file in Linux… same “physical” file, but different names/paths)? All ratings, notes etc would be visible under any of the names and What Can I Make function would include more options for people with the rebranded flavors.

Sprkslfly · January 2, 2019, 1:32am

I definitely understand what you’re saying/asking, but that’s outside my domain, and a question best posed to @daath.

SessionDrummer · January 2, 2019, 1:57am

I’m assuming back to Bavarian Cream, French Vanilla ??

If so, I’m down with that.

I think that’s the LEAST we could do to help you.

Chrispdx · January 2, 2019, 2:08am

So are we going to talk about fresh cream fa or cream fresh fa. Lol

All I can say is that I appreciate all the hard work that is being done. So to that end I have no official comment other than thanks to community of elr.

Sprkslfly · January 2, 2019, 2:51am

Correct.

Well (and this is part of why I was wanting to make some SENSE of all this in the first place) given the name the manufacturer uses in this case is:

https://flavourart.com/en/store/flavors/sweet/cream-fresh-flavor/

Even though countless others we love and respect “Americanize it”…by calling it Fresh Cream…

But then some vendors DO sell it by the correct name:

https://wizardlabs.us/cream-fresh-flavor-concentrate-by-fa-1oz

It’s no wonder things go pear shaped…
And that’s not even mentioning the whole flavor creative crap, or FA for flavor apprentice etc, etc.
/pulls hair out

… Bottom line, I’m going with Cream Fresh in this case.
Because it kills two birds with one stone. It’s “manufacturer correct” (not that I’m promising all will be), but it also keeps it where it should be without “incident” (so to speak).

anon28032772 · January 2, 2019, 2:58am

I don’t see why it matters what resellers name the flavors. What matters is how the name is listed on the manufacturer’s website. That should always be the point of reference.

Sprkslfly · January 2, 2019, 3:02am

It matters because people (especially those that don’t frequent this or other forums) tend to enter whatever is on the bottle without even a thought on what the manufacturer named it, or even IF it was a flavor made by someone else (and are oblivious to the possibility [and very real practice] of rebranding).

Edited for accuracy (and current findings, which are different, once again. SIGH) - since I was replying off memory (which was WRONG) as it was Black Berry pictured that was being sold as Blueberry:

The sister site (Inawera Winkle, Germany) where they list blueberry is actually Black berry. (picture error, or real change WTF knows anymore.)

And AT THE TIME, Inawera (Polish site) did NOT have blueberry listed, nor another couple of times that I checked… But it’s there now. Go figure. sigh Without label though.
http://www.inaweraflavours.com/en/-fruitnsweet-e-flavours/180-blueberry-e-concentrate-10-ml.html

But if you actually DO pay attention to details, and lookup the translation of the picture shown at Winkle… You might be amazed to learn that the literal Polish translation means Black Berry.
Not blueberry, which they changed it to for the sake of sales or reaching a wider audience that might not otherwise try Bilberry. Or simply fucked up with the wrong picture.

~~Then go back to Inawera’s main site, and YOU WILL find Bilberry sold.~~
Correction, As of this minute (when I’m checking) you no longer find Bilberry for sale. And only find Shisha Bilberry listed. >.<

http://www.inaweraflavours.com/en/search?orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=Bilberry&submit_search=Search

Anyways, I’ve not the first time I’ve been bitten in the ass by Inawera. Apologies for the inaccurate information above.

anon28032772 · January 2, 2019, 3:05am

The other thing I don’t understand is why ELR doesn’t implement a drop-down list (or something alike) where people can enter admin approved flavors to their stash.
All the time that’s been used to discuss flavors, change, correct, and change again, could’ve been spent entering every single flavor on the market and adding a box to request new vendor flavors (that will go through a verification process before being entered in the database).
People will keep making a mess. The only way to stop it is to take the possibility away from people. If people don’t want to be treated like grown-ups and give them a little extra wiggle room, treat them like kids and be done with it. It’s a little bit more annoying for people who do adhere to basic, common-sense rules, but I’d gladly take a bit of restriction, knowing that there won’t be a mess.

Cutlass92 · January 2, 2019, 3:08am

And make stones and nets private flavors.
So they don’t even appear in the database.

anon28032772 · January 2, 2019, 3:09am

That could be dealt with in a different way that would clearly not be a regular flavor

anon28032772 · January 2, 2019, 3:11am

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s sad if it would have to come to that… but I’ve come to accept that people won’t change, people will keep on behaving like they do and the more people come, the worse it gets.
And more people come every day. Vaping is still a growing business across the world.

woftam · January 2, 2019, 3:12am

This is not what this thread is about and I could be wrong but I am pretty sure it has been discussed about 500000 times already - it will happen when it happens. Not sure if you are aware but things don’t automatically code themselves - Lars has it on his list, discussing it ad Infinitum really is pointless.

Sprkslfly · January 2, 2019, 3:13am

Save that question, and any others like it for Lars please. What he does or doesn’t do can only be answered by him. And it doesn’t help here to “what if”.

I’m only trying to deal with what little I can do to help. And I’d prefer to have that not get lost “in the mix” at the moment please.

anon28032772 · January 2, 2019, 3:15am

I think the answer to that is simply use the manufacturer’s English website version as a reference. ELR is after all being used in English. Most manufacturers that market their products internationally will have an English version.

anon28032772 · January 2, 2019, 3:19am

I’m not blaming you for anything, nor Lars. I do appreciate all the time everybody’s putting in this. And it is what it is. ELR has grown from a simple recipe sharing website to be the global reference and nobody could’ve foreseen what issues would turn up or even how successful the site would become.
All I’m doing is throwing out some ideas, frustrations, etc to open discussion. If there are issues, you can only get to the best solution if a bunch of people put their heads together and come up with their ideas and point of views.

Sprkslfly · January 2, 2019, 3:24am

I’m absolutely all for that!
I’m just asking that it not be done in this thread please.

Sprkslfly · January 2, 2019, 4:17am

FWIW, this is also why I wanted to distuinguish the line variants (from pictures) in Inawera’s case (especially but not in particular).

Because at least then we have a CONCRETE source to go on. Especially since Ina seems to change things like as the wind blows.

E-Aromat being generic (flavor line)
aroma-inawera-almond

Shisha being a different iteration than “regular” Raspberry (which is Malina in Polish, Bulgarian, and no telling how many others…)

KONCENTRAT-MALINA-10-ml-1325-3

Though this is a later label, where they dropped the Koncentrat or E-Aromat altogether…
AROMAT-TYPU-SHISHA-RASPBERRY-10-ml-1334-3

1454958153

1454958070

Anyways…that’s all secondary at this point…
The point of this was reverting.

Plunderdrum · January 3, 2019, 6:02pm

Hey, @Sprkslfly, how long does it take for deleted mis-named flavors to fall off the flavor database once deleted from a flavor stash? I mucked up the works trying to input Ethyl Maltol (VG) (ooo), hitting the add button thinking it was a search button! D’oh!

I deleted the mess-ups yesterday, but they’re still there today in the flavor list after I emptied my cache.

Sorry, man!

Sprkslfly · January 4, 2019, 12:59am

About the 7th of never… chuckles

It’s alright man. I appreciate your asking, and “wishing” they’d fall off…but it doesn’t work that way.

Once a flavor is added to someone’s stash, it’s in the database “forever” (which then “goes into” the drop-down selection list for OTHER folks to select the wrong one… lol)

At any rate, If you could, the best thing anyone can do when they make a boo-boo, is to immediately hit the “Duplicate checker” (in the user menu on the recipe side).

If that small action is done while it’s fresh on the mind, then it at least goes into the Dupe Cue to notify me.

Currently, I’ve gotten things down to under 240 submissions (and that’s down from 700+ just a few months ago)!!! Which I’m REALLY happy about. Primarily because in the past, I’ve tended to spend the majority of my time with the dupes not relying on the cue. Simply because it’s faster (and it removes errant submissions from the equation).
NOT that I don’t appreciate, and USE those submissions… But not many folks are aware of just how intermingled some of these acronyms are, OR when it’s “obvious” that certain typos (CAP when it should have been TPA etc) should not be merged with CAP just because Cap’s in the flavor name.

I do try to keep folks from losing what they intended to key in as much as I can and WHEN I can… but there’s also been times I’ve made a mistake, and it crushes me to know that someone might have lost notes, etc. (I’ve been there, done that too)

Anyways… I’ll get it sorted

But if you think about it, or see which ones, just hit the Duplicate checker and submit away!

I appreciate ALL of the folks who try to assist me in trying to fix this mess (in their varying capacities)!!! Even if I get a bit frustrated at times. =x