… leave CSC there (so those who have it, won’t get hurt) and
…copy-paste those CSC reviews and recipes to Nomz (so it won’t be a ghost town there for another 2 years like it still is with CSC)
So, CSC alone + CSC and Nomz under Nomz brand.
Just like we don’t have (thankfully) couple of FA’s under each brand, but all together. Or LA, CCW, FE, etc. It doesn’t make sense to have two separate brands (just like it doesn’t make sense to have Belgian Waffle (MB) and Belgian Waffle (MB) (SSA) and start it all over again.
With so many flavors and so many brands It takes looong time to fill it with recipes and reviews (and thus make it useful), especially for a brand that is distributed on one single place on the planet = use most user friendly solution; users will be thankful for that. It would be a pity to start it from the beginning and split it up for no benefit if there is a simple solution (i assume copy-paste is possible; otherwise Meringue (NOMZ SC) (CSC) wouldn’t hurt and it would all be together anyway). The main point of database is to have it as useful as it could be for users and this might be the way. Sharp split makes noone a favor.
You bring up great points about the flavors and recipes @mikser. I don’t know if there is a perfect way or not. I’ll have to defer to @Ken_O_Where, and @fidalgo_vapes in that regard.
There’s two main issues it seems. The naming convention, and then there’s the recipes, like you mentioned.
If the OG CSC’s stay as they were, as is, untouched, and then duplicates (there are some new ones) are added, and notes are copy/pasted, does that cause any other issues ?
I COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from, when you stated, “Starting Over”.
Ken I know we were talking about the aspects of naming, but I’m trying to think of any negatives.
If you (sorry Ken), went into each of the 95 (sorry Ken) OG CSC flavors, and changed them from Flavor (CSC) to Flavor (SC) (Nomz), is there any downsides to that ?
The notes stick RIGHT where they are supposed to be, the recipes all stay intact. Downside other than labor ??
yes, the point is what’s more beneficial for users, not what’s ‘right’. Let’s not forget these are very small brand and that most of these 100 or something flavors won’t have 10 recipes in 2 years from now (just like most CSC don’t have even 5 public recipes). So what’s the point of acting like those are separate flavors? It’s making a mess again with 2 brands for the same flavor for users and makes the database / recipes of lower value (and because of that even less recipes will show up and even less vapers will buy these flavors with no recipes and even more experienced will rather just push them away). I can’t find any good reason to split them (except that would be right thing to do to make it ‘right’)
This would have to be done by the folks who made the original reviews as it is unlikely that i will want very many of these. If i were to do bulk C&P for each of the flavors i would have to keep them in my stash, once you delete a flavor your review goes with it.
Apparently the main point of the DB is to accommodate any name anyone feels like putting in to it. When Lars put it all together, the recipe side, he did so with the thoughts that people could use it how they wanted to with minimal upkeep, hence the open DB.
At this point i dont see any reason to even bother with the recipe side other than to try and help people choose the correct flavors for recipe visibility, so they can find other mixes with their flavors and others can find theirs. I fix a few flavors from time to time and when someone starts screwing with the main flavor companies ill fix them.
Changing the OG’s to the new naming convention would be great, except 5 minutes after doing so people will start adding the old names back as it is what is on their bottle.
Remember how many flavors were in the flavor list after @TorturedZen and I were stopped from working on the DB? It was less than 90k, just a few months later and we are at 110294. Sure, we screwed some stuff up but that is beside the point. Even if we werent stopped it would have just gone back to being a complete mess as it is now.
Without locking the DB i have little to no desire to. And @Mikser i agree with:
But my definition and your definition isnt the same as every one’s. And that was Lar’s point, i believe, with keeping the DB open to allow anyone to add any name they want which makes it useful for everyone. Otherwise i feel he would have locked it a long time ago.
Does that make sense? I just want to make sure as things that make sense in my mind doesnt always make sense to others.
Im not opposed to doing as you suggest but at the same time i feel it would be a waste of my time as i am the only one who can make any changes on that side, other than Lars and JoJo and JoJo is retired. People will just add what they want to add whenever they want to add it.
Flavor (SC) (Nomz) is wrong. The name is Flavor (Nomz) (SC)
I know what you mean Ken and i agree with most of it, however
People will always change the names if that’s an option; that’s just the way it is. If they do, then they will just spit on themselves since recipes and usefulness of the database is where the recipes are. 99.8% of people are smart enough to not enter their names and 99.8% of people would benefit of merging since it’s the same flavor. 0.2% wouldn’t and we can’t do anything to prevent that, no matter if there is one brand or two brands listed. Besides, this is overreaction imho - there are dozen of FA brands, but how many of those rebranded names are (were) in the database? Many before, but… not that many after all. How many rebranded LA’s? (because of this only reason, not other reasons like misspelling or entering names in different languages or their own names which we don’t know).
But ok, let’s say we do it like it’s planned; two names for the same flavor. A serious question is - what will happen with MB tomorrow? Should we start all over again, because MB is not just MB anymore? That wouldn’t be wise probably (but maybe i’m wrong). If tomorrow someone buys RF, should we start all over again? If VTA moves to Malaysia tomorrow and gets a new name…
Those are all same flavors and database is useful because of the recipes and reviews, not because of the names on the bottles. 99% of people will know and 99% will find it useful not to be split MB now suddenly; i’d say fuck 1% or less, not 99%. Why would anyone want to split them (talking about MB)? Having proper names with empty entries doesn’t make it useful; having same flavor/recipes under different lists neither, starting from the scratch for a flavor that has some useful data (or lots of in case of MB) neither - it makes it less popular, less mixed, less desired even for experienced mixers…
Even if I went back and looked at the old Flavor (CSC) on ELR, I still don’t see certain flavors like Apple Donut, Apricot, Biscuit (Graham Cracker), etc under (SC) (Nomz), so how can I find any reviews under the old name?
My assumption was it’s the same thing as Super Concentrated so i was treating it as such. Manufacturer always goes last, it 's how we have done it since we started. If i am missing some info here please fill me in because i dont really know much about this situation other than what SD told me and fiddy.
Yep, TZ merge the vast majority of the rebrands and yet there are now 100 added back for just one of the rebranders of FA. And as they are added more and more people start using the other names, now there is more upkeep. There are at least 80K false entries in the DB so i get to make a choice, i can try to keep the major brands in line or so something like this with a minor one. These merges take time, this would take around 2 hours, 2 hours i can spend working on the main players or mixing.
Like i was saying i just dont want to deal with it, no matter what is done someone is going to get pissed off and ive had more than my share of that around here and TZ a whole lot more. We both had many angry messages on all the platforms, Facebook, discord, here, youtube shows, etc, and some of it was understandable. There is still no way that i can fix a mistake i make and i asked for others to be fixed when we were working on it and they still arent.
Not trying to sound dramatic but im in no way interested in going through anything like that again. Im sorry but that is just how it is. I hope i havent come off as dickish, it isnt my intention and i apologize if i do. I learned a valuable lesson.
They also have more than one line and many names, try searching Chef. It was one we were going to fix but were stopped. And hi you!
Careful with naming, because these flavors are not Super Concentrate anymore (since they don’t say they are, we should believe them). We’re blaming complete newbies and casual visitors for not using proper names, while we are doing the same – using wrong names that doesn’t exist.
We’re trying to tell them there is only one FA and that all rebranded FA’s should fall under one single name since it’s the same flavor, while here we are splitting the same flavor for some unknown reason.
It’s NN SuperCharged now. It’s Banana NomNomz SuperCharged, not Banana SuperCharged NN or Banana Super Concentrate NN. Maybe it’s still time to reconsider naming, since only 20 are added so far with zero recipes. I know the brand (NN) would appreciate naming them properly - under their real name and to be easy to find.
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Anyway, i started this questioning for one reason only – to open discussion what would be best for the database and most helpful to the community plus what questions does this decision open further (like that with MB; that one is way more important and delicate anyway and there would be a complete nonsense to split and start with a new line for old, well known and well used flavors; finding an answer for that line would help finding an answer for others too).
Please don’t take it wrong way (i know you won’t anyway, that’s why i started with it). What we don’t say often enough is appreciation of what you are doing for the community; not just you two with TZ, but also Fiddy and Rocky and SD and not to forget anyone else who’s contributing and sharing their knowledge. Thank you for so many years of doing this voluntary; it helped me and thousands a lot.
On nomz site it does say super strong concentrates in the description so id assume they are sc. They also list the recomended mixing percentage at .5 - 2%
This really is fantastic news for the hobby, loosing the CSC range was a HUGE hit, some of these flavours & IMO clearly best in their class & really blow other brands away, not only in authenticity but also in percentages needed.
I have detailed flavours notes on my account for almost all of them if anyone wants a 2nd opinion.
Really delighted to see the Tobacco Gold is making a comeback as chefs ditched that flavour & it’s just all kinds of wonderful even standalone.
