mmmm… However, with these statements, the importance of SFT is recognized … :pensando:
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ahhhh but I said “I” don’t do SFT, not that I didn’t read other notes. I actually read a lot of notes from people I trust and have mixed their recipes and we share similiar taste profiles. I don’t feel the need to do them myself. Like I said in the beginning, if you want to do SFT have fun and enjoy. Always do it your way 
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I think, as Descartes said, that one should not confuse opinion with knowledge. I think the discussion starts from that error, because it seems that those of us who don’t do SFT recognize its intrinsic importance. Opinions are thousands or millions, but knowledge is only one. Knowledge can be reached in several ways, but the correct result is unique. (I have to remember to include in the books that I like the philosophy of Descartes hahahaha) Kisses for everyone, do not get angry.
Sorry for my grammar, keep in mind that I use the translator and maybe my expressions are not correct. In no way I look for confrontation, I just try to get to understand, the flavors and cognitive processes, and everything else.
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Sorry, I meant Socrates
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The problem with relying on other people’s notes is that you never know how trustworthy they are and far from every flavor has decent notes. Taste is subjective so what 1 person thinks is great may be awful for another. And there aren’t 2 people with the same sense of taste either…
For the same concentrate, one person will say it’s dry and a very mild flavor and the next will say he’ll use it to juice up a recipe and has a strong flavor.
The point we (people who see the purpose of SFT) try to make is that you will never know until you try it yourself. Once you try, you’ll see it’s fun to do and it’s the only way to pick up all the nuances from a flavor and be able to see the possibilities of it.
Like I said before, I’m not trying to make anyone treat flavors the same way I do, if it works for you, be happy and don’t lose any sleep over it.
The only issue I have and why I chip in, is because @authormichellehughes portrays herself as someone eager to help newbies in DIY and even though this method works for her and some others, it’s IMO not the right advice to give to new mixers. Every chef should know his ingredients. That is not to say that no chef has ever existed that was good and didn’t know his ingredients, but chances of success increase exponentially if you’re following recommended guidelines. Guiding people into the DIY world and giving this “advice” is like taking one step forward and 2 steps back.
I know that you never literally said “I advise you to not do SFT”, but new people read texts from experienced mixers and do take it as advice.
If you’re trying to take on a teaching roll, you should think twice about the consequences of your words. Or if you don’t want to do that, don’t take on that position.
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So, can we conclude that it is important to perform SFT? Because if we read and use the notes of others, I somehow recognize that it is important … And if that is true, even if we don’t like it, our contribution to collective knowledge is poor …
Without offenses friends, not all people are trained to do everything …
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The tips are opinions not knowledge
totally agree with that
totally agree with that
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Right. Socrates said that. I believe Descartes said “Turn your used underwear inside out and you can get an extra day’s use before laundering.”
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And someone said opinions are like… trust me, no one owns the market on how to DIY. Have fun, I know I am LOL
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That’s Descartes again I believe.
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Trust me I’ve helped more people in DIY than you’ll ever know. But hey, take on the role and teach yourself because I seriously think the more help out there the better. I’m about helping others. and my teaching methods work because they don’t come at people like a slap in the face. Thanks for your opinion and now you have mine.
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Michelle, step back a little. You seem to get irked whenever someone stands contrary to your opinions. You said have fun, so chill a bit and have fun. No need to jump on Suo now too. We’s all just espressin’ ourselves. The community is stronger than the individual parts. It’s all good!!
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LOL I’m answering when my name is called Phil. Trust me, I really don’t get upset over this stuff. I do find it funny. The show will go on …
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Me also that’s what its all about i have some good recipes and some real bad ones and its cheap 
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While the need for SFT debate rages on, I think there is one point, that has been COMPLETELY missed here, and on the other threads, where this has come up. THE NEW MIXER. Everyone seems to be speaking FOR them, or ON their behalf, but none of us ARE them.
If you walked up to 100 cig smokers, looking to quit, and get into DIY, and started telling them, BEFORE they could start vaping, or mixing anything up, they had to delve directly into SFT with multiple flavors (all of their flavors), at multiple strengths, and over multiple time spans (steeping), you would not have any where CLOSE to 100 new DIY’ers left. I guarantee it.
This debate (supposedly on the behalf of, the NEW DIY’er) completely misses the mindset OF the new mixer/DIY’er.
The focus should NOT be on jamming people into the manditory nature of SFT, but getting OFF of the cigs, and starting them into DIY’ing. After you start to EASE newer DIY’ers into the fold, THEN you can start to talk about more advanced (yes, SFT is advanced beyond a casual DIY’er) aspects of mixing.
Before you can hope to presume what’s right FOR the new DIY’ers, you have to put yourselves (back in the time machine) to the beginning, when you were a NEW DIY’er.
I think @authormichellehughes said up in an earlier post (please correct me if I’m wrong here), that if SHE had been inindated with SFT she probably would have kicked DIY’ing to the curb. Guess what, I would have kicked it to the curb as well, so put me on that freight train too. We can all SAY what’s right, who should do what, what they shouldn’t, but hehe, guys, we’re NOT them. MOST people (not all) on ELR are far more advanced, than the beginning DIY’ers. Some of us more than others, but with that said, most of us are NOT beginners, and it can be hard to THINK (or remember what it’s like to be) like an absolute beginner.
Keep this in mind for everyone who is preaching exactly what beginners should be doing. I didn’t even come CLOSE to SFT till after I had been mixing for more than a while.
Does this mean that all new mixers couldn’t BENEFIT from learing about SFT ?? No, not at all, but by the same token, it is NOT the entry gate to DIY’ing that some make it out to be.
IMO, below are the things that I think should matter most to NEW DIY’ers, and ALL of them take priority OVER SFT.
- Nicotine Safety and Handling
- Ecig/Mod/Battery/Coil safety.
- Basic flavorings
- Note taking on current mixes hates/likes.
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I think you’re (partly?) missing the point I’m making too. I did repeat a couple times that I’m the last person to say how anyone should mix. Most of us are living in a free country and you do what makes you happy.
I agree with you that beginners usually don’t jump in the deep end, buy flavors and create their own recipes and do SFT’ing. Most will probably look for existing, high rated recipes and see where that gets them. Some will even keep doing that and never create their own recipes and that’s perfectly OK.
That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t give them recommended guidelines on how to get the most out of their journey. Even if someone is just attempting to improve on a recipe that he or she picked up somewhere, you can either attempt to guess and play with %'s or you can quickly do a few SFTs and know what difference your actions will be.
If the person that teaches you simply tells you to not bother and keep playing because it’s fun, that’s IMO not the right way of guiding new mixers into DIY. Instead of pushing people to start doing their singles, just explain how to do it and what benefits it has, even if you yourself manage without.
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BINGO! Bullseye SD…
- Have fun. We’re not talking organ transplants here.
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We’re in agreement.
I don’t mean to split hairs here brother, but I’m seeing contradiction here. You’re not trying to tell anyone how to treat flavors, but it’s wrong because … ??
@anon28032772, my quarrel is not with you, it’s this same old, tired ass debate, that has seemingly just been hashed, and re-hashed, and hashed yet again, just in different threads.
I know who the big TWO players are in this argument, and it just seems it has run it’s tired self to death, despite, being brought back to life, over, and over again.
My quarrel is with THAT.
Just gets old after about the fifth or sixth time.
I think we’ve beat this one to death at this point.
You, nor I (as far as I know) have not taken it upon ourselves to try and teach newer mixers anything (directly that is, perhaps indirectly). Michelle has taken that task on, and is working with whatever group she has, in the way she sees fit. We can critique that, offer suggestions, feedback, until the cows come home, but that fact remains, that she is trying to help out newer mixers, and we aren’t (you and I @anon28032772), at least in a formal setting that is.
I personally agree that SFT is the way to go. Period, full stop, end of line. BUT, that doesn’t mean that I think that Michelle, or anyone else out there, who is trying to take new DIY’ers under their wing, and help them get into DIY’ing isn’t doing a good thing, helping start out newer DIY’ers or anything of the sort, because I think she is. Now, might I, or you do it differently ??? Maybe. But, until you and I start up our SessionDrummer and Suomynona’s DIY Beginner lessons, we’re kind of in the back seat.
My take on NOT doing SFT as it CAN (but not ALWAYS) hurt you as a mixer. Depends what you want. Maybe you just want to mix up standard recipes, vape what you like, toss what you don’t. Maybe tweak a few, but mostly, just vape what ya got, and in that case, you can roll, roll, roll like that with no issues.
When however, you start to break out of that stage, THEN, things can start to get a little more dicey if you don’t SFT, have a firm grasp ON the flavors, and start trial and erroring them. THAT, is how you can get FRUSTRUATED very quickly, IMO.
Either way, I think we have really, REALLY beaten the SFT to death, and the lower half of this thread, just seemed like it was brought back, FROM THE DEAD, one more time.
@anon28032772 I appreciate you TAKING the time, and putting up your thoughts IN detail, not just short spamming, I appreciate that. We may beg to differ on the details, but we’re both big boys, and we can take it. Michelle probably took a calculated risk making a post, but that’s hers to take. I’m GLAD she’s taking on, and helping newer mixers, as when I started, I would have been glad to (I still am), have her as a vape buddy. For every newer DIY’er she brings into the fold, that’s one less smoker (and/or commercial juice slave), and that’s a GREAT thing, IMO.
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As one of “them” I can relate to that statement! Thrown into DIY due to SUDDEN FLAVORBAN in my state. Do I think SFT is a good thing for those perfecting the “craft” of mixing? Have to say probably so. Seems like it takes time and dedication, for now I gotta get some juice flowing in my coils😎
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