Since my name came up let me clarify. My base ratio is 96vg, 4pg, 8dw. So no I don’t replace pg with dw, dw simply helps me vape vg heavy juices more easily.
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Again, when I see something like this…
then you should have some accountability where users, especially new ones reading the thread are concerned. Your thread topic and the ‘science of an idea’ takes a backseat to this as far as I’m concerned. Getting butt hurt because my comment wasn’t dipped in candy coating is on you. Don’t try to turn it back on me!
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well, i guess this answers my pending question of have water in juice. i tend to clean my bottles just before filling them, and i leave minuscule amounts of water in them.
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TZ has been around enough to know how nonsense is spread. People go to a website and then parrot junk elsewhere while they sling shit at anyone that suggests they do a little research or what they are saying may be incorrect.
But to be clear I responded hoping to help others keep from wasting time and money or getting frustrated with DIY like so many do. Pg and/or other solvents are in the concentrates for specific purposes and IMO it would help to have a layman’s understanding of how they function. But people are free to do as they like and experiment as they want. Spreading admittedly unknown and baseless information and being antagonistic, arrogant, and insulting don’t fall into that category. I knew I’d have a better chance of making sense if I went out back and tried to reason with a tree stump than with this guy. He did a fine job of showing that. Talk shit and then personally attack anyone who voices a different opinion.
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And just when I was trying to a kinder, gentler ‘love myself so I can love others’ kind of guy. Well that’s BS! 
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True, Water would certainly be much cheaper to use but
Density, viscosity, surface tension, and molar volume of propylene glycol is Why it’s used, Glycols are more viscous than water alone. Solution viscosity increases with an increase in glycol concentration or a decrease in temperature.
This thread reminded me off something an old timer told me when I was a lad,
“Water is the best lubricant on the planet, problem is water has no (little) viscosity, so don’t think you can replace the oil in your vehicles crankcase with water to save money, it just won’t work”
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Ok, no argument about those properties and not to be all arrogantly “sciencey” n shit, I’m curious about your thoughts on the complete sentence as applied to its use as a solvent:
What is used to dissolve the flavorants into suspended solution. Will water dissolve them?
Maybe I should have said reduce the viscosity of VG.
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As a Solvent, off the cuff I’d say probably pretty close in property to water, as a carrier I’d say most likely better than water.
As we all know it takes time (steeping) for the flavor molecules to meld (solve, dissolve…) with the carrier. I’m pretty sure that somebody way before me already figured out that PG works better than Water,
But would be curious to find out if someone would do a side by side test using the Game Changer 
as water and pg have nearly the same SG, maybe another breakthough in mixing 
(But I’m not gonna try it) 
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Correction (you got my old mind working Dan)
I would say Water is the better solvent, as we know lower viscosity makes a better solvent (ie: alcohol)
water has low surface tension and low viscosity = better solvent
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But if, generally speaking, the molecular structure (covalent bond) of the flavor materials can not be altered (bonded) to water by itself, then any such test by any means is not possible.
To be clear, I did not invent the high shear mixing process which is used across the spectrum of processing industries. I simply adapted a 70+ year old concept and optimized it into an affordable and function specific device for e juice mixing.
Like many others before me, I regard the term “steeping” as nothing more than a very bad term that stuck.
Edit: I was typing before you answered. I want to leave this hang for debate but will answer fully because I have wanted to get to this for a very long time. The answer does lie in the term emulsification and the difference between it and homogenization.
To emulsify means two substances like oil and water that ordinary will not mix or that can not be mixed without emulsifying additives.
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That’s what I was thinking, I believe PG is a better carrier that the flavors can bond to and in turn help bond the flavors to the higher viscosity VG.
True, and I’d think that any larger manufacturers of vape juice probably use high shear mixing? IDK ?
I just threw that out there in case anybody wanted to float their boat,
I’m happy using PG
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These two statements seem to contradict each other, I’m thinking back to the introduction of Latex paint vs oil based
Edit, I read that wrong 
good point
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I know specifically that FA does because I’ve seen their equipment thogh the owner Mancini just called it an “expensive mixer.” @mjag mentioned once that a mfg sampled his juice and asked if it was made by high shear. I can’t imagine any large mfg not using them.
A test could be done using concentrates that have been made water soluble. Our concentrates contain water and so does VG. As I mentioned above adding more water will act as a dilutant but as Letitia said she just ups the percentages slightly and I’m certain this works. I prefer PG and so do most.
I don’t know what you mean.
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Hehe, yeah I edited that while you were replying. I read that wrong
I’m in agreement with that, like I said “I’m not gonna try it” if the thread OG wants to replace all the pg with water, ain’t gonna work IMO, a little DW, ppl do that. I don’t see the point of it myself
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@jinx_d, it is perfectly safe to have miniscule amounts of water in your bottles from rinsing. I do it, at least every other time I mix and it has never caused me a problem.
If you’re still concerned about it, you can rinse again with a little rubbing alcohol, to assist in evaporation, and wait a few minutes for it to completely evaporate.
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The analogy between oil based paint and water based (latex) is a good example now that I have thought about it. The chemists make the pigments dissolve either or according to what they want. Its basically the same with our flavor concentrates.
Generally speaking, most flavor materials meaning nothing else but raw compounds will not dissolve in water standing alone. PG acts as a solvent along with other chemicals which dissolve them into water soluble molecular structures which will then mix with water and VG. PG based concentrates are used nearly universally and most attempts to make VG based concentrates fail. The flavor materials separate.
I was emailing with @muth earlier today and recommended a video of a tour of the flavourart facility that shows how concentrates are made from the molecule up. Its long but very worthwhile and the owner/founder speaks about the process. The base materials get diluted from 80 to 100 times by pg, water, and other materials into the final concentrates that we use.
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Just to throw a completely different concept out there. My chief concern would be the potential for “dry drowning”. The molecular structure of PG and VG is such that “supposedly” they do not accumulate in the lungs. Water on the other hand is more than happy to stay there.
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Nope: only enough to reduce the viscosity of the VG - 5% max I’d think would be enough to cut through the jelly-thick consistency.
Also as I said I’d still use PG for tobacco flavours since that dry harshness has its place there, but I don’t see why I’d want it in desert mixes where bitter and dry doesn’t enhance the flavour in the slightest.
I could just use 100% VG but it’d take forever to shake and wick poorly if I ever decide to use it in a closed tank.
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Yeah, that was One on One when they were located in Corona, CA. Not far from my home so I would pick up direct at times, really nice people. One of the flavors didn’t mix well and was off. When asked if I used a high sheer mixer (prior to the GC) I just said nope and gave the shaking with my fist motion. I am sure they thought man, this guy must jerk it a lot
As far as this topic I use to make a 100% VG juice using VG nic and VG flavors for someone who had a sensitivity to PG. I used 5% DW to thin it out and it worked well.
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I’m not too worried about that.
No more worried than I am walking in the heavy blankets of fog we get covering the town for days here or breathing steam in the shower.
And though the vaping world generally accepts that VG and PG as well as all the flavours are “safer than smoking” we still don’t really know we’re not going to all have major medical issues in another xx number of years because none of it’s been proven safe, which seems odd considering vaping has been a thing for over a decade now…
You would think our scientists - backed by the huge vaping industry - would’ve found conclusive evidence with all the studies that prove its safety by now if such a fact were true… yet there’s still nothing concrete…
Instantly I can hear everyone’s minds echoing “it’s food based and safe to eat” course, but we are not eating it: many, maaany things that’re safe to eat are not safe to inhale and certainly not all day, every day, week on month on years.
So a bit of water in a mix is the lowest concern to me far as safety goes.
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