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Leafy - Tainted Carts investigation

Surprisingly, they’ve all been pulled from the market. Fear of lawsuits?

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Welcome to the rise of nationalism in the U.S.

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Yeah, I think history shows that there has never been a large central government that didn’t become a tyranny, or ever will be. Our whole structure of separations of powers and checks and balances between the branches, and the states, is crumbling. I wish that the larger picture could be recognized, meaning that if they can do this crap with “emergency orders” then they can just send the legislatures home and do anything they please. I know it’s cliche’ but “a nation of laws not men” comes to mind.

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Back to the tainted carts subject the pesticides/herbicides found in the NBC examples came as somewhat of a surprise to me. I see a pattern of similarities where a trail to a point of origin might be established. It seems clear to me that CDC and others have had to have had test results for weeks, if not months.

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Deliberate/consistent conflation of separate issues for the mongering of “FUD” (fear, uncertainty, denial).

The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism:
… a deliberate strategy of “shock therapy”. This centers on the exploitation of national crises to push through controversial policies while citizens are too emotionally and physically distracted by disasters or upheavals to mount an effective resistance.

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That sounds like it could tie into the batches of products that were declined/denied by whatever regulatory agencies and processes are in place in the state of California.

IIRC, I read about such, but it was in reference to the marijuana industry. Not vaping.
But it stands to reason that product that’s already been grown, processed, and prepared for market, would make its way through the black market channels (as opposed to taking a total loss) by less than scrupulous (or those entities who operate outside of the regulatory system anyways…) individuals in the supply chain.

Again, IMO it just reinforces the need for approval of the vaping and marijuana industries, and regulation of the same. But, that would mean that the underlying goal actually WAS public health, and not simply attempting to ensure that the money is being funneled through “the right hands” [whether on The Hill, or in the relevant industry]. (Oops. My bad.)

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Yes, banning legal non THC containing vapes that already have a minimum age to purchase won’t change a thing. But obviously they are construing all matters with a broad brush of “vaping.”

FDA: " if we determine that someone is manufacturing or distributing illicit, adulterated vaping products that caused illness and death for personal profit, we would consider that to be a criminal act. "

That is the issue for which they have overwhelming evidence aside from the oils used for “cut” we have been focusing on. Whether the tainted garbage on the street came from grown, processed, and thereafter rejected product or from an underground lab that processed it, it’s poison and a criminal act.

If a legal lab rejected then I’m certain that records are there. Underground obviously makes tracing much more difficult, particularly when dealing with persons or entities with no regard for human life.

I have zero faith in government and said from the beginning that I believe this is an orchestrated take down. My speculative analysis is simply to develop legitimate questions we can demand answers to.

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Still selling these ?

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NBC went on the street, I think? to buy the carts tested. So man I really don’t know and have never purchased or used a THC vape. CBD yes, sort of, but I check lab testing.

I don’t remember where but did read that the brands listed on that site are all counterfeit and also that products from a legal dispensary are way more expensive.

My point is that if the government has all the concerns they say they have then they should have gone after this shit the instant they found pesticides. I’d like to know what they knew and when they knew it. I imagine the families of the sick and dead would too. But after all, street fentanyl takes 130 people a day and cigarettes over 1000 a day.

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I’m going to share this on twitter as a public service message.

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Yes feel free to share anywhere. My take is that there is a big difference between the utterly stupid but legal vitamin E oil cut used and deadly poisons found from use on the cannabis crops. I asked a local farmer (ordinary farmer) and he was stunned that some of these chemicals would be used on something to be inhaled. He said “you know what a hazmat suit is?”

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I hear where you’re coming from. My reference to vaping oil was because some physician on twitter told me that his patient got sick from vaping flavored oil. We had a nice discussion about lipoid pneumonia. It’s when I remembered from my time in working as an RT most physicians (unless they were pulmonologists) turned to RT’s for ideas for the lungs and it’s scary how little they knew.

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Yes its pathetic how little some know. I’ve been told many times that medical school is like standing in front of a firehose with your mouth open to see how much you can take in. Then “continuing studies” are paid for by pharmaceutical companies and consist mostly of teaching them to prescribe their drugs. Its really, really sad.

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No kidding. The diagnoses of pulmonary conditions seems to be an uncertain and limited business - where patterns seen in X-rays (CT) images are rarely definitive in their nature. Tests (save for certain bacterial species) are limited and can be quite involved relating to various viruses, some bacteria (ie, TB), and fungal, antigens. Anything but a simple occupation. “Solution searching for problem(s)” approach is always dubious.

Speaking of condfounding causations bound to further reduce the (already horrible) “Signal/Noise Ratio”:

(STAT, September 27, 2019): “Flu season threatens to complicate diagnoses of vaping-related illness

The issue, experts say, is that flu and other respiratory viruses can, in many ways, look strikingly similar to a case of vaping-related illness: Symptoms include shortness of breath, night sweats, low oxygen levels, and hazy spots on a lung X-ray. …

… Under the current guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, doctors are expected to rule out flu or any other infectious cause of illness before diagnosing a case of vaping-related illness. But as winter nears, it’s increasingly possible that people who vape heavily will also start testing positive for flu or another respiratory infection. As a result, the agency may be forced to reconsider its definition of vaping-related illness, experts said. The CDC, when asked, didn’t respond directly to the question of whether its definition might need to be revised. …

… A CDC spokesperson told STAT that during flu season, the agency recommends considering both respiratory infections and vaping-related illness in patients with both respiratory problems and a history of e-cigarette use. Since it might not be possible for doctors to definitively determine the cause, it might be necessary to treat patients for both conditions.

Experts said the overlapping illnesses likely won’t complicate influenza surveillance, as patients will still be tested for flu. But it will make it harder to accurately track cases of vaping-related illness, a critical step in the effort to get the outbreak under control.

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I’d be curious to see a study on people that vape and get the flu. I’ve never had it.

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How do you know such to be true ? There exist ~200 Rhinoviruses, and a good number of Influenzas… :thinking: RSV is contagious and common - peaking with Influenzas around January; also active throughout the year.

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I used get colds and sinus infections a lot. In three years of vaping I’ve had 1 cold, period, and I’m pretty old with a weakened immune system that comes with it.

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Don’t press your luck. We operate just a little bit away from being overwhelmed by various serious antigens. Am reading that the Influenza-A H3N2 inoculation worked so poorly in Australia that the US is likely to have an even more pathetic flu vax this year than last year - as we are now stick with that same irrelevant as well as hard to culture item.

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Don’t tell anyone because I don’t to become a statistic, but I stubbed my toe while vaping tonight. Had to pet a pony and color a unicorn and everything. Finally, I grabbed someone for a snack and I’m all better now.

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When I was a public employee (~12 years), at the annual pinhead-festival in August, the “human resources” clowns used to give out goofy rubber pencil erasers shaped like weird little animals that they called “kudos”. Sounds like you need a “kudo” ?

:stuck_out_tongue:

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