Obviously having this discussion is too contentious - reminding me a lot of how some of those Acetylpropionyl discussions went in that, ahem, other forum. So I’m taking the high road and ending my participation in the matter just for harmony’s sake. Last thing I want to do is battle especially when I’m trying hard to just chat.
I read something like that too just this week. Can’t remember where though I do so much reading. But I have believed this all along, and so has my family. When we have get togethers the smokers go outside and we vapers get to puff indoors. Kinda nice in the winter.
I really would not like to see this thread turn into a argument as well. I feel as though it doesn’t have to if used as intended. To learn. I’m learning a whole lot researching the wires and honestly have not touched all. Even though we all think Titanium is the best wire to use. There are different grades that none of else have looked at including myself. Grade 1, Grade 2, what else? Are there alloys that would be nice for vaping? Are there other grades of SS wire? I’m gonna get some 430 grade SS eventually and take a look. I feel it is promising. This is actually a interesting subject and does not have to turn into a argument. Can we not look at this as exploring our options…
I wasn’t saying you were beating a dead horse or did anything wrong at all, so I apologize if I came across that way.
All I was talking about is what seems to be this growing divide of coil selection to the point of you’re “wrong” if you use this and not that.
By dead horse I just mean there have been more than enough threads on what coils people prefer and the quality of each. To me it seems like we keep going in circles on this topic by repeating the same preferred coil over and over.
By now we know everyones opinion on it and at the end of the day people should use what they enjoy regardless.
Im all for threads like this one, where we can investigate and educate the dangers, if any, on the different materials we all use. For me that is the one major thing that is lacking in this “culture” is more health info
Now I still don’t twist my own coils for the most part and that just boils down to the fact I do not have time (9 months out of the year I am so insanely busy I do not have time to sleep or eat and most days I don’t) but my SS coils are SUS316 on the coils. Is this the “standard” for SS grade in the vaping world? Is this what you use ring? Just curious because I don’t know of any other grades on SS only because I haven’t needed to
I actually read something like this a few weeks back as well and it also applied to second hand vapors too. I don’t believe vaping is bad for you by any means, give or take a few things. I just meant some people are hoping to be told that what they worry about is good for you…not that it’s necessarily “bad” for you.
It is pretty funny though because we all used to smoke cigarettes and I think a lot of us are more concerned with what we vape, way more than what we were smoking…which we all know is so incredibly bad for you. If this concern and worry stemmed over in to cigs no one would smoke!..well…in theory at least
As far as I know, yes. Most that build their own use the SS 316l wire. I believe the manufacturers who do SS coils also use the 316l. More than likely it is safe to use in most applications. I do still want to try the 430 grade cause it is nickel free…
Very true, but we were addicted. Not a lot different from a addict that shoots up drugs knowing they can be exposed to HIV, Infection, and other problems cause from shooting up, YET, still choose to do so. And yes, I see your point, and it is valid. Now let me make a point. Maybe it is best for us to worry just enough for us to get off our ass and study these questionable things about this industry. Why you ask? Because the cigarette companies don’t have the FDA, The Medical Field, or State Governments breathing down their backs trying to ban their product. We do! It is up to all of us to find the safest means to vape and show those bastards and the public it’s not the beast they portray it as…
Oh no I’m not saying because we don’t smoke any more that we shouldn’t worry! I was only pointing out how from a distance, the worry seems more with vaping than it ever did with smoking but there is no wrong in worrying.
Totally with you on that and we need to be concerned, no question there at all! From the flavorings we use all the way up to the coils that vape it! We all know there’s not enough information out there on vaping and any dangers in the equipment we use… there wouldn’t ever be, if people weren’t concerned or asking questions.
Couldn’t agree with ya more ringers!
There is more health risk in a can of coca cola…seriously
You would think manufacturers would automatically use the higher grade…but then again…dollars and cents
So excuse my ignorance but what effect, if any, do you think the higher grade SS would have? More so on the TC/wattage end of it. So would not having the nickel in there be significant enough to change the coefficiency or resistance or whatever? Or is it more so the…health…benefit of not having the Ni? Sorry if it has already been discussed but there can’t be too much Ni in SS? I would imagine only a few percent of it is Ni? like 1-5% maybe?
I hear ya. I won’t say you’re wrong if you’re not vaping with TC and Ti wire, but I will say you don’t know what you’re missing! And no need to apologize sir, I wanted to distance myself from even the hint of heated debate, that’s all.
Actually we hope they use the safest materials but I expect them to go with the cheapest. The Coefficiency, good question, guess more googling is needed before I try. Was actually thinking of the stainless in Wattage mode so may not be important for at least that application, but I would think it should need be close though, especially if you want to use TC mode…
Yeah, for me nickel is something I don’t trust. If you checked out the article I linked above…“The dangerous kitchenware lurking in your home”, apparently there are those who believe the nickel gets in your food when cooking with stainless steel pots and pans. The GOOD cookware makes use of 430 grade stainless steel. That’s why 430 grade SS looks so interesting to me…
Yep, we stay clear of nickel and aluminium in the kitchen when it come to heat, storage or highly acidic products. I have always been a little weary about Ni myself. I actually posted the same vids as you did about it and I thought I was going to get lynched! lol
I don’t know scientifically that it is good or bad BUT I do know it effects people with allergies and if that’s the case it is obviously coming into contact with us one way or another. I have all my TC Ni coils still sitting in my crown cases just because I don’t trust them enough to use them. Better safe than sorry for me
Hi guys , I’ll chime in with what I now about the 4xx series stainless. As far as I know it is primarily used when one wants a harder and/or magnetic stainless and are willing to compromise on corrosion resistance. Nothing known helps corrosion resistance like the addition of chromium and 4xx series stainless is why stainless kitchen knives still rust. 316 and it’s variants (eg 316Ti) are the most corrosion resistant stainless steels and are commonly used in high end aggressive semiconductor applications where hardness is not the primary need. Now that i think of it that chromium never seems to contaminate the resulting ULTRA-pure crystals as far as I know, even when transporting hot, aggressive chemicals like vaporized acid.
TiO2 is well adhered to the surface of the metal (I mentioned this in another thread) while iron oxide (rust) is less so. Neither is particularly bad for you, but titania is so inert they use it to line metallurgical furnaces (it don’t react, folks)…its only “dangerous” as a particulate, which applies to most everything harder than meat. It is no more dangerous to you than sand of the same particle size. . .Nanoparticles BTW ain’t that easy to make, I have paid truly enormous sums for them, although they are generally cheaper these days. Not cheap, cheaper.
I really encourage folks to seek out true and reliable materials for these types of investigations, not Internet “experts” or anything posted by an individual, and that includes me. I just happen to have a Ph.D. that is largely materials based. But how do YOU know that or that I didn’t just cheat my way through in a low grade third world institution? The CRC handbook is a great starting point as is Matweb. MSDS really tend to be pretty inadequate for questions like general safety, but they are easy to get, so it’s not wasted effort. In this case I would bet OSHA has set exposure limits. . .whatever that is worth.
Please also understand that just because Titanium reacts with air doesn’t make it dangerous. Water among virtually all materials reacts with air to form corrosive carbonic acid (among other things)…which we gulp down in soda…and that ain’t what makes soda bad. Oxygen is literal poison in high concentrations. . .that chlorine in your city water and pool…not real good for ya! Neither is its replacement, ozone.
My final point(s) here is that you are looking at the minutia of vaping with wire. A CRITICAL point made above is that you would never suck on a device with a coil approaching dangerous temps, wicked or unwicked; it would be very unpleasant. Why not look at what we are breathing in large quantities, VG & PG. And we are breathing them in at elevated temperatures (making them more reactive)…more so as coil technology/technique advances. There ARE publicly available studies on this already and I’d imagine more studies are now ongoing. I would bet you breath in more dangerous METALS in one whiff of your cars exhaust than a day of vaping chemically pure vg/pg. A good question is how pure is that stuff we are breathing in? I may even go try to find some data on that. Until very recently, I had the equipment to measure, but alas that job is no more. Still, MY biggest concern remains in inhaling a hot organic solvent as I am largely organic and assume at least some of you are as well.
Best of luck in the quest for knowledge. This is a very civilized conversation born of genuine intellectual curiosity. It’s very refreshing to see people thinking together instead of bickering. Thank you.
First let me say excellent post! With your PH.D. you have acquired knowledge which to most others is equivalent to a foreign language. Most areas of expertise are like that though, right? Even in my line of work, where advanced education is helpful but not necessary, the lexicon specific to my field of work would be alien to the average person. That is why I’m very interested in seeing study results on the various wires used specifically in a vaping application as I feel I am better equipped to understand those results. I’ve searched out and found plenty of data but it’s all been industrial in nature which, although it can help guide the reader to draw some conclusions, doesn’t really address the questions at hand for the layperson.
But after reading your post and other things I have read, along with a minor dose of common sense, I’m thinking there is far less to be concerned with when it comes to some of these resistance wires…especially Titanium. I’ve been using it a few weeks in temperature controlled devices and quite frankly I find it to provide the absolute best vape experience by a wide margin over Kanthal - more so over nickel.
I did receive some 316L stainless wire today. I’m running it in my TFV4 tank right now and so far it’s very good as well. I have run less than a tankful so I’m still not 100% how it stacks up to Ti, but for now it seems to be very close as far as providing that cleaner taste.
Again, thanks for your post. I’m eager to hear more from you whenever you can contribute.
Thank you very much for your thoughts. What you have contributed I find most helpful. May I ask what your thoughts are in the actual use of 430 grade Stainless Stain for vaping coils. Basically if you see a reason one should not give it a shot for building coils…
and it also applied to second hand vapors too. I don’t believe vaping is bad for you by any means, give or take a few things. I just meant some people are hoping to be told that what they worry about is good for you…not that it’s necessarily “bad” for you.
