MF is an extraction, not a concentrate. It just doesn’t make sense for them to take an extraction and then dilute it, especially since their aim is not to serve the vaping community.
As for ‘ultra’, there’s a recent thread on it. Concentrates/extractions are not made with the intention of being ‘ultra’, that’s a vaper term for how little you need due to its’ potency.
I’m on the road right now. taking a break to respond to you. Alright let’s try this, how about capella diluting their flavors to 40% flavor use would you be happy with that? After all Oh, it’s the same taste correct?
My issue is use more buy more. if this is the case then the manufacturers actually making double triple quadruple the amount of what it actually cost to create the flavoring. By using little I spending a little bit more to get quality, who’s winning in the end? 
I dont even know why i jumped in on that conversation …This is a MF recommendations thread…I recommend if you dont like MF dont buy , if the price is too much and you dont see the Value dont buy them…There is a difference between Extrated Natural flavoring and Synthetic Concentarates…Its like comparing NETS to Tobacco Concentrates …
Thx fidalgo. Every day we learn something… 
I understand (very basicly) the difference, but the question i had is would the liquid that we buy taste differently if it is pure extract like in MF bottles today and if it would be prediluted 9:1 with PG (which we add anyway at mixing right) by MF?
And just to keep things leveled out… @Mikser, no one’s attacking you or anyone else. We’re just trying to explain why MF is what it is, to answer your posts about why it isn’t diluted. As Figgy says, and it’s really true- if you don’t want to futtle with trying to mix at such low %'s, just don’t use them or FLV or WF (SC), or any of the ‘ultra’ types. This DIY stuff should be fun, after all.
It’s sort of moot, isn’t it? It isn’t going to happen anyway. You could do that test for yourself if you want to know the answer badly enough. And you could have it neatly meted out in the diluted ratio you prefer to work with, too.
Yes Mikser there is a difference …The best way I coule explain it is going back to Smoking Yuck I know…Have you noticed how a lot of people try to get that Taste of a real Ciggarettte but cant ??? Its bc they are using Synthetic Flavorings basically… Habe you ever had a fresh squeezed orange juice ?? Then had Sunny delight that the difference… Even if MF diluted like you are saying the Taste would be superior than say TPA wild blueberry and even if they diliuted it it would still be stronger at 1.2 pct than FW BB at 3 to 5pct and a more natural taste …
I hope this makes sense
MF uses Natural Flavoring like Vanilla , Clove , anise plus the natural flavoring to create the extract and they use a CO2 extraction process that is a lot different than using Compounds
you said it better than I could. Still not home now it’s just hot and muggy in my car!
Thx Phil, fidalgo. I was asking because really curious about this. We have an example here; MF is sold under Botanic Elixir brand in one UK shop and they are selling 9:1 diluted MF flavors. Now it makes me curious if those are the same flavors as MF (as everyone is talking; plus because i see many advantages of non-ultras vs ultras). Thx all.
If they’re selling that for the same price as the undiluted MF, they should be indicted.
I’d guess the primary reason MF does not dilute is because their customer base is probably less than 1% vapers, and the other industries that use them want them full-on. Probably not a good business model to go through all that for a tiny customer base.
The price is very affordable ofc which makes them great for testing, before buying the real ones. somewhere around 3.50 pounds or something like that
Then I just have to ask… why not just buy that?
yes youbare getting the same product however they have added a base , you should get the same taste though…im not sure it chamges anything except strength …The price should be different though… Remember MF werent made with Vaping in mind and they never catered to the Vaping World until Nic River became a distributor and asked them to reformulate with a PG base…the PG is Vegetable Based though if that matters to you …So as far as diluting them for a Eliquid Mixer or Vape company it never made sense for MF to do so…
@Mikser i understand your thought process , when I first bought a MF flave it was called Lotus from ECX at 9.99 fir 5ml and that a weak flavor for them lol…Its a tough pill to swallow , but you also hear people complain about lemon fading MF doesnt etc…Once you taste the difference you would be surprised …The Value is there though . I see people reupping on their fave flave bc they have to use it at a high percent they essentially spend more money on a average flavor than I do on a MF flavor over the same time period … Take WF for example to get 150ml how much would that cost ? Over 20$$$ 15ml of mf can be diliuted like you say that would be 150ml at apprx 22$ and your still using in some cases less than 1 pct of flavoring that is the VALUE and you get a superior product USUALLY lol
Note: there are downfalls to MF as well…there isnt a perfect flavor line out there
I think I covered that somewhere too @fidalgo_vapes…
something like… use more buy more… yeps…
See, this exactly is what i meant (partly anyway). You said you had to swallow it and buy those 5ml Lotus… You didn’t choose 15ml at that time, although they were a better deal price-wise, but you rather took 5ml (that was about 2 years ago, right?). Most think the same; me too. And have in mind that you were quite experienced (and most probably had over 200 flavors) back then + that there weren’t that many magnificent flavors back then compared to what we have now. 15ml of extreme ultra is too much for average consumer; that’s why i say it would be great to have either 5ml bottles or preferably diluted, non-ultras (since that would allow easier mixing for average consumer).
I bought Dark Chocolate and Coffee MF about 18 months ago since i couldn’t find great flavors for these back then despite having 10 coffees and 6 chocos. Are they great? Most definitely are. Are they worth the extra price for me personally? Nah, i doubt i would buy again them again; there are too many great flavors nowadays and so many amazing recipes + there are so many new flavors which i desperately need to try + i hate looong steeping. There’s only one MF on my list atm, Wild Raspberry, but i doubt i’ll pull the trigger. Too overpriced and way too big bottles for my needs.
I know what you mean, but here is a thing. Like most of you, i really like experimenting and trying new things all the time; i rarely mix the same recipe twice. And now i am buying about 100 (mostly new) flavors, mostly 10ml in the next weeks and my budget is planned to be around £220 (yes, including 15 FLVs). I could get 10 MFs for that amount (but i’d still need about 50 of those must-haves that MF can’t deliver).
With my limited budget i’ll rather take 15 WF/FA/VTA 10ml than 1 single 15ml MF at any time (prices in Europe). And this is important - that’s primarily because they are ultras; if they were diluted to normal use, then the price and amounts used in a recipe would be similar to others and mixing them easy (and thus much more inviting for average consumer).
Here is another good example: would an average vaper (not talking about pros) rather have WF ultra concentrated at 0.2% usage, but at 15€ price or rather have it like it is now? Would one rather have Rich Cinnamon FLV used at 0.8% and at normal price or like it is now? I bet a large, extremely large majority of vapers would much rather take the ‘normal’ bottles, rather than ultras; price-wise, ease of mixing wise, being able to taste more flavors for the same price wise. That was my thought regarding ‘ultras’; me not a big fan of them.
Thanks, but I’m confident that GMO is a red herring with regard to corn sensistitivity issues ( I might add, by way of supporting that statement, that i’m personally forced to buy organic GMO-free products, in the main, to avoid various allergens, but the corn containing products amongst then make me ill nonetheless)
BTW, It;s also very clearly a myth that PG allergy is caused by petroleum products, now that it transpires that it’s the norm, rather than the exception for PG to be derived from corn, not petroleum , I think I can simplifynearly all my own food sensitivities down to corn sensitivity , now i’ve learned more about the processes used by the food industry. And now I wnder how many others that might apply to?
And jus t to correct a minor misconception. I not suddenly sensir\tive to corn, but rather my corn sensitivity has suddenly heightenened to the point that the slightest trace causes a reaction. I’ve lived with this fotr many years already, and it just got substantially harder,
At the same time, I’ve developed all kinds of odd addition sensitivities groan , though can never be entirely sure they’re not corn sensitivity in some novel guise, it’s so uniquitous , and so universely thought to be harmless, the chances are traces find their way into just about all manufactured food, if only by cross contamination.
Anyway, I’ll shurt up about it now, because it’s pretty damned irrelevant to other readers of this thread. (At least, I hope to God it’s irrelevant. Wouldn’t wish this on anyone else )
A few years back I found and made a Matcha Kit Kat recipe that was very tasty. It used FE Green Tea and TPA White chocolate. I thought I might try some substitutions and ordered…
1Tea, Green Flavor: Tea, Green Flavor - 15 mL|22.00|22.00||
1Chocolate, White Flavor - 15 mL|22.00|22.00|
1Coconut Flavor - 15 mL|22.00|22.00|
1Guava Flavor: Guava Flavor - 15 mL|22.00|22.00||1
1Raspberry, Wild Flavor: Raspberry, Wild - 15 mL|22.00|22.00|
Since shipping was the same cost for 5 bottles as 2; I convinced myself I was saving giant $$ if I bought more flavors… 
May I suggest splitting this thread? It went way beyond "“MF recommendations” as such, the moment the stock clearance sale was announced.
Don’t get me wrong: it’s a great disussion, but increasingly off topic.
Heck, it prolly needs splitting at least twice over already 
Not going to do multiple splits i think one will suffice