Michigan becomes first state to ban flavored e-cigarettes, cites dangers of vaping

These (flavoring) matters evidently “legally dovetail” (in terms of the type of the statutory authority, as well as public agency jurisdiction of enforcement) with this 2019 law. Michiganers might want to give the ESB 106 a look. Combined with recent Emergency Rule, it completes a “legal picture” surrounding these types of things:

Michiganers: If you make an effort to figure out your legal situation without success, and have a specific question(s), I’ll attempt to find some answer(s) for you (if needed). Am getting a bit burnt-out on research.

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Don’t know if this has been shared… I posted it to my page before bed…
I also was accused of hurting people with this info… (WTF?)

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Look 13 posts up thread at woftam’s post (that you had “liked” and “tada’d”). Care for a tad of Nicotine ? Can Caffeine be inhaled ? There must be some reason for breathing one’s food ? Just “blowin’ steam” ?


Source: https://www.massgeneral.org/News/newsarticle.aspx?id=3135

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No, just my fluffy blanket and where’d my pillow go?? :stuck_out_tongue:

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@woftam A few States where they TAX e-juice (containing Nicotine) They only sell 0mg jucie and then a seperate Nic booster to nic-it-up. Since the TAX on a 30-60 mL bottle is going to be hugh compared TAX on a samller 1-2mL nic booster. But yea 0 mg nic juice I hope they can’t touch it ever.

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Update
http://www.casaa.org/call-to-action/mi-stop-the-governors-flavor-ban/
(Update – 09.23.19)

On September 19, 2019, Michigan Representative, Beau LaFave (R-108), introduced a bill ( HB 4996 ) that would strip the state’s department of health of the ability to ban the manufacture and sale of vapor products. In effect, this bill would undo Governor Whitmer’s “emergency order” banning flavored vapor products.

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billintroduced/House/htm/2019-HIB-4996.htm

A bill to amend 1978 PA 368, entitled

“Public health code,”
(2) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that bans the sale, manufacturing, or use of a vapor product.

(3) Notwithstanding this act or any provision of federal law to the contrary, the legislature finds that all of the following are not subject to federal regulation and are instead subject to this state’s sovereign authority:

(a) The manufacturing of a vapor product in this state.

(b) The sale and purchase of a vapor product that is manufactured in this state.

(4) As used in this section, “vapor product” means that term as defined in section 4 of the youth tobacco act, 1915 PA 31, MCL 722.644.

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funny about Michigan…they want to ban vaping as dangerous yet have a shithole city called Detroit full of thieves, drugs, weapons, murders, no jobs…yeah…fuck Michigan and their lead water

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I’ll buy in on fuck Detroit, but the rest of the state is quite different. Unfortunately, Detroit is the population density and politically controls the rest of the state.

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perhaps, but I don’t see vaping as the killer so to say. its a saver otherwise all of us would still be smoking and dying. I don’t think the leaders in the state of Michigan have all the wires hooked up in their heads to deem vaping is bad yet have Detroit as their rainbow city

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A rep from our Upper Peninsula has filed a bill to shut the Empress down just today. I’ve already sent out emails to my reps endorsing the bill. Believe me if you can, the rest of Michigan has no love loss for Detroit and the surrounding areas.

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Tomorrow I intend to contact Reps. and co sponsors LaFave, Markkanen, Steven Johnson, Maddock, Eisen, O’Malley, Miller and Meerman. However, I am not a citizen of Michigan so I will identify myself as a citizen of Indiana and commend them for their efforts.

My opinion is that section (3) “Notwithstanding this act or any provision of federal law to the contrary, the legislature finds that all of the following are not subject to federal regulation and are instead subject to this state’s sovereign authority:” is a very, very smart provision which has implications for our entire nation. Jurisdiction will be settled and must be done in a federal court. (I can elaborate)

Who is to pay for putting people out of business and work and causing a major health crisis: the federal govt or the Detroilet majority? Just my opinion but I think it’s a brilliant move. They know the lawsuits are coming and have already backed off the lawless edict.

Edit: those interested can search “federal preemption” and “US Constitution-Supremacy Clause.”

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Hmm…So Mister E Liquid establishes an ejuice business in Michigan in 2010 when FDA did not have authority to regulate. (as decided in FDA v Brown and Williamson and controlling the Soterra (NJOY) case.) In 2016 pursuant to an act of Congress FDA gained authority to regulate ENDS products and “deemed” them tobacco products. Mister E Liquid now employs 80 people and producess products in an FDA approved and inspected ISO clean room facility. They are in compliance with federal law and allowed to manufacture, sell, and distribute by FDA. The date for PMTA documents is being litigated though a federal judge has set this as May 2020 with case by case extensions under the discretion of FDA. Mister E Liquid CEO testified to a house committee that the proposed ban will cause him to file bankruptcy, dismiss his employees, and close his business. Others testified to the black market health hazards.

Who should pay and who has authority to impose these losses upon him and all similarly situated? How many will die from buying dirty street liquids and who will be responsible:FDA or Michigan?

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Sovereign Immunity.

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34 U.S. Code § 20932. Immunity for good faith conduct.
The Federal Government, jurisdictions, political subdivisions of jurisdictions, and their agencies, officers,employees, and agents shall be immune from liability for good faith conduct under this subchapter.

Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/34/20932

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STATE SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY AND TORT LIABILITY IN ALL 50 STATES

Sovereign or governmental immunity concern themselves with the various legal doctrines or statutes that provide federal, state, or local governments immunity from tort-based claims, as well as exceptions to or waivers of that immunity. Generally, a state government is immune from tort suits by individuals under the doctrine of sovereign immunity. Local governments, municipalities, and political subdivisions of the state are immune from tort suits by virtue of governmental immunity, because the state grants them immunity, usually in its constitution. … The common law origins of sovereign immunity can be traced back to the notion that the king made the laws, and thus anything the king did was necessarily legal. The doctrine was thought to pass through to the several states before the founding of this country. …

A compromise doctrine subsequently developed at common law, whereby government officers could be held liable for the negligent performance of ministerial functions (operational acts involving carrying out policies), but not for discretionary functions (those involving policy setting and decision making).

… In many jurisdictions, government officials still enjoy immunity from liability in connection with the performance of their discretionary or governmental functions and acts. On the other hand, liability arising out of the negligent performance of a proprietary or ministerial act by a governmental official is not granted immunity. The doctrine of sovereign immunity varies from state-to-state but is usually contained either in a statutory framework (such as a Tort Claims Act) or within judicial and case decisions. Excluded from the doctrine are cities and municipalities, which are considered to be mere creatures of the legislature, and which have no inherent power and must exercise delegated power strictly within the limitations prescribed by the state legislature. As such, by default, municipalities are liable for their actions unless shielded by state law.

Source: https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/STATE-SOVEREIGN-IMMUNITY-AND-TORT-LIABILITY-CHART.pdf

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Qualified Immunity”.

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The phrase “good faith” can/has been socio-politically “stretched” to include promoting harm and death:

Unintended but foreseeable, this transition exposed users to drastically higher risk of overdose because of the lack of regulation over the contents, quality, and dosage in black market opioid products. … after remaining largely stable for years, overdose deaths involving heroin spiked rapidly, tripling between 2010 and 2015. … These increases in harm were as predictable as they are disastrous. … As this crisis has evolved, the iatrogenic risk to the health of people who use drugs was not just foreseeable, but in some cases directly foreseen by policy-makers. One of the most shocking articulations of this came from Pennsylvania’s former Physician General, who recently remarked, “We knew that [drug user transition to the black market] was going to be an issue, that we were going to push addicts in a direction that was going to be more deadly. But … you have to start somewhere”. This statement is emblematic of the belief that decisive action is more important than reducing overall societal harm. … seemingly widespread, this sentiment is inimical to both public health scientific and ethical norms.

Source: “Today’s fentanyl crisis: Prohibition’s Iron Law, revisited”; Beletsky, Davis; 2017

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Yes, I’m well aware of all of the immunity doctrines. However, I’m also well aware of what constitutes an act in complete absence of jurisdiction which is actually where I believe the sponsors of the bill referenced above are going. I’m also aware of the purported savings clause in the federal Act. So, who has jurisdiction in your opinion?:smile:

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Sounds like perhaps you are better equipped to research and opine upon such things. I am “all ears” … :thinking:

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I have no idea how any judge will rule, only that I believe the sponsors of the bill are attempting to force it before more harm occurs. Every day across this country people walk into courtrooms knowing they are right on the facts and on the laws; then walk out attempting to stuff their entrails back in.

As to research ability, I don’t know or care who is “better equipped.”

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Well put. … :nerd_face:

Nor do I. Was speaking to the fact that I shall leave such involved tasks and battles to willing/able others.

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@anon36682625 Outstanding points, and details. I almost hate to have to answer it, but “Save the Children” right ? Isn’t that the whole ball of wax right there ?

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Well that’s certainly what they say isn’t it? That may even be true in some cases and I think that here and among the general public no one wants kids to be vaping. But to me their logic is like pointing out that junkies use syringes and OD so they need to confiscate all syringes from diabetics.

I’m reluctant at this point to say much more except that I think it clear that this is about tax money and tobacco profits and the rest are just contrivances. Am tied up at the moment. More later.

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I will simply wish you the very best in your quest, and hope you keep posting up.
I agree it is totally unfair, considering the circumstances.

I think we all know, what big Pharma wants, they shall grab and run with it.

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