Mixing VG + Flavors + water for dillution. No PG

for a 10ml container. I wanna put two flavors in it with VG.
The flavoring has PG … I dont know their percentage but the flavors do have PG. and besides, i have no PG in the crap country i am in right now. its $100 dollars for 500mil. lets skip PG.

is this equation correct?

6ml VG
then 2.5 split up between the two flavours, strawberry and banana.
then the rest, 1.5 water.

Yet when I make this I get a cardboardy taste. I have tried organic cotton as well as regular unwashed cotton. I am not sure the cardboardy taste … I am howerver still leaning towards the cotton being the culprit?

Please help me out. I am bad at math and the calculators online all wanna put nicotine and pg when i dont have those and dont want them to begin with.

I can see why no one has wanted to touch this one :slightly_smiling:
But I’ll give it a try!

First, you DO NOT have to use PG if you don’t want to, I don’t. I can’t think of any calculator on ELR that “forces” you to put PG into your recipe. Take ELR for example, you can check the box that says, “MAX VG” and boom…all VG :wink:
Now lets take your equation up top, which I fully don’t understand but I can see you are making a Strawberry-banana recipe, using only VG,2 flavors and water? No nicotine? Personally I have never used water in any of my recipes and never saw the point but that’s just me.

You are going to have to give us more information before anyone or myself can fully help you, like what company makes the flavors you are using? This is important to figure out the right %s of flavoring because as much as we would like to just throw a little of this and a little of that and have a nice juice…it doesn’t work that way. Each company has it’s own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to actual flavor taste and potency.
Also we need to know how you are measuring your ingredients? Syringes/pipettes/beakers/flasks/measuring cups/eye/weight? All these are important and I would suggest using a scale for the EASIEST and fastest method but syringes/pipettes would work too

But back to the ELR calculator…
Select create a new recipe and under desired strength put a zero(0) and under nicotine strength zero(0), since you will not be using any nicotine. Then click “add flavor” and type/select your flavor/company then the % you want.
Below this you will see the finished recipe and you do not have to do any math what so ever. The problem is, there isn’t any golden % for a flavor, trial and error my friend but I will say any banana flavor will be a lot stronger than any strawberry, so maybe start with 10% SB and 5% banana, personally I would not add water…but again, not enough information to help you here.

Otherwise use the search feature on this site, it is very helpful!

1 Like

I dont have any nicotine locally here to buy. so thats why i left it out.
I do howerver have chinese 30mil straberry bottles that have concentration of nic at 18mg. Can i use that?

In regards to the flavourings. this is also a pickle. I am picking what they have in the market. The bottles they give me from (i buy 100mil for 2 dollars) … the big 1 litter they give me from is a jordanian company made. it has no water and no alcohol and says it has PG in it as well as Ethyl Maltol. The company is called “United Flavours & Frangrances”

Now. there is another company of which flavours are available. I plan on going tomorrow to get some of their flavours to try out. i have tried contacting them with no response.
Its called scentium-flavours … the bottles at the stores lack any info on the ingredients.

so as you can see. i am screwed. unless i can find a company that will ship to baghdad/iraq i am willing to buy flavourings.
in the meantime i wanna work with what i have. if its possible.

I don’t see why not? I am not familiar with this though and that’s where the math part would have to come in.

Let’s skip that for now and get you familiar with mixing this flavors with your VG. First I would do AS MUCH research on this “United Flavours & Frangrances” company, in order to know more about their potency and maybe vape applications? Who knows maybe you will find someone that has used it and a rough range on a starting percentage?
I would start with my suggestion above but keep in mind you first (and probably 2nd, 3rd, 4th…) juice may not be all that good. Too strong/not strong enough but this is where you will have to take notes so you know if you need to go higher/lower on the % or not.
Also what are you vaping with? Tank/mod and that? SubOhm? This is also important to know

Moving forward… I am going to assume you are measuring in ML somehow, so make sure your preferences on the ELR recipe site are set that way. Then do exactly what I mentioned above by setting your nic to 0 in both places and select MAX VG.
Click ADD flavor and type Strawberry. You will see a drop down menu, just ignore it, for I do not believe this company is on here but I could be wrong. So type Strawberry MINE or whatever you like, really doesn’t matter at this point, just so you know it is your flavor and then add the % you like. Me not knowing anything about this company I would just suggest a starting % of 10
Next do the same for banana @ 5% and click SAVE (make sure you keep your recipe private)

That’s it! It will tell you exactly how many ML of each ingredient to add. Shake it up or whatever method you have and that’s it. Juices should steep for some time to really let the flavors blend and “mature” but for a simple one like this, you may get away with a “shake and vape”

If you find there is way too much/too little SB/Banana then adjust your next recipe accordingly. You’re not screwed, your just without the help and guidance of the flavor databas to give you a good idea of %s

As far as using a flavor that has nicotine in it. This may be a tough one but maybe someone here has tried it? You can use the calculator and just pretend you flavor is the nicotine and you would have to enter “18 mg” in where it says nicotine strength (100% pg) and then you would have to enter your desired nicotine (in finished product) at the top, lets say 3mg

Then repeat what I said above and in your final recipe it will list your 2 flavors AND where it says “Nicotine juice 18 mg (100% PG)”, that would actually be your nicotine flavor. Make sense? Because I really do not want to be taking pictures right now hahaha

Thank you so much for the fast replies.

Yes. I am using syringes as i find measuring in ml easier.
and i am using a dripper. … i have a velocity and a indestructible . Whats odd is i could swear i made that recipe you put down so many times but i still get that cardboard-taste.
i have tried all sorts of cotton as well… could the cotton be causing me the weird taste?

my wire is pure kanthal whether its 28 or 26 gauge. all ok. and i am ok with making wire and glowing from inner.

now, please keep in mind that that company has added PG and Ethyl Maltol which i believe is whats making so perfume like and so strong.
i am not sure of the percentages.

i guess once i figure out a working receipe i can try to put drops of the nic-based flavours to get the effect.

should i shell out the money for the PG? would it make a difference? OR should i go ahead and get that other flavouring from Scentium-flavourings to try? these guys are european as opposed to the jordanian one i am using now.

You won’t say this once you use a scale, trust me :wink: You will be kicking yourself that you didn’t use one earlier

I’m not sure I could help you much here. It could very well be the cotton and if it is a new cotton, it may have to be “broken in” for a while first to clear that taste OR it could also be the flavoring itself. Granted I have never heard of any flavoring giving off a cardboard taste but not every flavor is a good flavor.

Back when I started out, I would get so discouraged because I would make something simple, lets just say a SB & Banana and it would be HORRIBLE! No matter how many different %s I tried, I would still get a nasty taste. Once I started buying different SB flavors, I realized it wasn’t what I was doing, as much as it was the flavoring itself. Just because something says Strawberry, doesn’t mean it’s automatically going to be a good SB.
Now I am using SB as an example because in truth I have yet to have a bad SB haha.

DIY is a game of patience and trial and error…more errors than anything starting out. I have never known anyone to make their first blend and have it come out how they wanted it.

To me though, it sounds like it’s in the wick

Don’t say that too loud around here :wink:

A lot of people get a nasty taste from this and they don’t realize it until they switch to a SS or titanium, for me I have always used SS but I did start off on Kanthal way before these new wires became popular. That taste would be more a metallic one than a cardboard though

This really comes down to personal preference and it won’t fix this cardboard flavor. PG does carry flavor more than VG, that’s why flavors are typically PG based, but it won’t change the issue you speak of.

I have always preferred MAX VG myself. PG does make the flavor “pop” for some but I love my VG mixes and I get enough PG in the flavorings to pop

Sorry for the multiple posts but I forgot one thing. Cardboard flavor aside, do you taste the SB/Banana?

can you elaborate more please. because i think we maybe hitting the nail on the head but not quite… when i smell and taste the mix it is fine and bearable (what i make)… but when i put it in the dripper it shifts. and yes i do leave it overnight and do take the bubbles out. i do steep it.
so you say its the wick. do you mean the wire or the cotton? what should i change?

i also have nichrome 80 wire. thats about it. i am oversees and stuff is hard to get in a country where this stuff is banned :slight_smile:

theres a bit of taste in there. yes but overwhelmed by cardboardy, burn smell.

Sorry when I say the wick, I do mean the cotton. I am not an expert when it comes to builds, so I can’t guide you through those stages but I do know when I have a fresh coil with cotton, I get an off flavor that goes away after 5-10 pulls. This can be from machine oil on the wire, the cotton not being broken in yet and a bunch of other things. Kind of normal but a burnt taste is different. This means you are not getting enough juice through the cotton to reach the coils in time, causing a dry hit. The burnt taste is exactly that, cotton burning. Now this can happen if you have packed your cotton too much and it is too dense to absorb the juice fast enough.

Does this flavor get any better the longer you use the cotton? Worse? The same? It is definitely the cotton in my opinion. Not necessarily the type/brand itself but that’s where your issue arises.

I also do not drip, so I know nothing of the Velocity

I guess I need to know if it is more of a burnt taste all the time or a cardboard one? In my mind those are 2 different possibilities

Out of curiosity, is that Strawberry a flavor concentrate? or is it a premade ejuice that’s ready to vape?


Don’t suppose you can upload a pic of your flavor bottle and wick could you?

I was more curious to see the Flavor Concentrate labels if they had any. Was going to do some web digging.

heh. its mostly in arabic anyway.

ingredients: pg, vanilla, ethyl maltol, colors e150, flavors.

thats the long line


Meh, I live in Dearborn, Michigan. I bet my neighbor could translate it. :wink:

This tells me what I was looking for anyways. They have three product lines: food, fragrance, and shisha. At least I can dig deeper knowing what the label looks like. The Shisha line looks like the one you want, but this looks like this is from the food line.

From uffjo.com

UFF: is the main line of flavors and is used in:

• Soft & carbonated beverages
• Confectionary, sweets & chewing gum
• Ice cream & dairy products
• Biscuits, wafers & bakery
• Fats & ghees
• Pharmaceuticals & personal care products

AROMATIC: is the line of flavors and colors tailored to suit the needs of bakeries, restaurants, hotels, coffee shops, patisseries and retail shops. AROMATIC flavors are of a lower concentration than UFF flavors.

Shisha Flavors: is the line of flavors dedicated to the tobacco/smoking applications which include shisha and related industries such as steam stones, e-cigarettes and e-shishas.