Hey @Kinnikinnick, just a question, I was looking for a good N.E.T walkthrough, I have a gallon of PG onhand, and just curious of how much tobacco leaves to put in how much PG, I tried watching a few videos but they don’t go into much detail. You are my most trusted source for this info, is there a good guide you could refer me to??
Hope all is well! I’m on the patient train as I brew my own wine so I know all about the waiting game.
(Bonus question, was trying to find a chocolate tobacco or could you recommend a good starter tobacco?)
What works for me is a half oz of shredded tobacco in a pint mason jelly jar and topped of to a 1/4 inch or so of the lip with pg. but the weight is for untreated natural whole leaf tobacco. Most mixed tobacco blends tend to be heavier and would need to be adjusted accordingly.
@anon13011326 pretty much nailed what I do, but at 1/2 the amount. Here’s what I have typically sent to folks who are interested:
Here’s a bullet point version of how perform PG macerations:
Combine 1oz of tobacco in an 8oz jar with 150ml of PG or until you “top” the tobacco with PG.
Warm jar for 6 to 8 hours, between 125 to 150 degrees *F.
Place sealed jar in cool dark closet for at least 30 days (longer is better, esp. for cigar leaf).
Strain through coffee filter at least 3 times; low micron scientific filters (Grade 5) are best for final filter.
Mix at roughly 15% ratio with base mixture.
This process will yield enough extract to produce roughly 900 to 1000ml of finished NET eliquid, depending upon the strength of the extract. That’s ALOT of extract. This is the reason some folks only use a 1/2oz of tobacco. For me, a 100% NET vaper, it makes sense to go for the 1oz version… I’ll eventually vape it all.
You’re going to lose 10 to 20% of your solvent in the process, due to the tobacco soaking up some of the PG and filtering methods; no big deal… you’d still be left with 125 to 135ml of extract, down from the original 150ml applied to the tobacco.
I know this is a crazy ass long thread, but there’s a lot of good info and methods in the thread. But, I’ll be glad to answer any other questions you might have on your NET process/journey. The big thing is… find what works for YOU!
Well… the more I vaped NET, the more I realized I didn’t like other flavors (casings) coming between me and the tobacco; I primarily vape non-aromatics. So, at the moment, I couldn’t suggest a “chocolate/cocoa” cased tobacco. But, I’ll do some searching on a couple of other forums about the topic.
And recommending a starter tobacco is kind of a hard thing as well. I don’t know if you like sweet, smokey, heavy, light, smooth, or spicy tobacco backgrounds. You might need to give me some direction as to your tastebuds desires.
This is an extract that I enjoy very much. Not saying it is ‘chocolate dominant’, the note is subtle.
Sample#27* - Lane Ltd:CohibaPipeTobacco: -Black Cavendish, Virginia: - The aromatics come through, giving the vape a sweet, vanilla, touch with a heavy emphasis on the Virginia. There’s a Burley nuttiness present, and overall a very sweet vape with pronounced chocolate / cocoa top notes and good tobacco base note depth. Recommended.
@Kinnikinnick and all, thanks for the awesome responses. I tried to look up a few shops and they only sell it in pounds/lbs, belay the website request, just saw the one from @50YearsOfCigars
I’ve been doing some reading as I get ready to dip my toes into NETs and after reading about people using a freezer to help filter PGA based extractions, I was wondering if anyone has tried a “lagering” kind of technique?
Basically, has anyone tried sticking a PG based maceration in a fridge set at slightly above freezing for an extended period of time? (A month or longer.) It’s an important part of the process for making certain kinds of beer so I’m curious if a similar technique could apply to NETs.
By way of introduction, everyone knows me here as the “precise word guy” - So here you go with a little of that type of thing:
The word ‘filter’ has a very specific meaning, It means (forgive the slight oversimplification) to mechanically remove particle through a screen or other barrier material that will not allow the particles to pass. The placing of Ethyl Alcohol extracts in the freezer is not for the purpose of ‘filtering’ What it is about is the changing of the physics of a couple of things to accomplish a couple of narrow and specific goals: One is the agglomeration of fatty materials at low temps to pull them out of the extract. , And the other is the changing of density of the carrier solvent as the temps are lowered, thereby allowing gravity to selectively ‘drop out’ and then cold filter those particles that normally would suspend at room temps. The purpose of the process in beer making (if I have that right, I think I do…) is that long term cold ‘lagers’ allow the beer to ‘fall clear’. This was a way to make these very clear beers in the days before advanced technologies like those developed by Coors Ceramics allowed ultra filtration and very clear beers to be made in a hurry.
If you are just starting NETs I would suggest you follow a simple recipe in PG to start and use simple mechanical filtration. Leave Ethyl Alcohol extractions for later after you get the idea. It is an advanced technique and there is a bunch of considerations with it. Technically it is almost a lab exercise and if done right requires Anhydrous Ethyl Alcohol, which must be prepared by advanced lab methods. Another issue is that it extracts higher note flavor profiles vrs a cold PG extraction. For someone just starting out this can all be an un-necessary wrinkle to toss at you out the gate, as the best overall flavor profiles with Ethyl Alcohol involve re-blending with PG extractions to add back in the base notes.
And since we are on the subject of filtration, i would mention that ultra clear, 100% particle free, is not necessarily what you want with NETs. Flavor components are carried with the extraction and in some cases are, in fact particles. Leave some of them there, they are important ! The subject of flavor components in NETs is involved and not trivial. You can explore that subject later.
If you are just starting out with NET then Please see my post elsewhere about - an example of a 9 jar “starter kit”: - If you put that phrase in the search bar at the top of any page it should take you there.
Funnily enough, I actually sent you an email today asking for a couple samples.
In the home beer brewing community, I had sometimes seen lagering hailed as the answer to improving any beer for both clarity and flavor so I was wondering if maybe it could help us as well.
I was thinking once I try making a PG based extract, maybe I could try steeping half in the back of a fridge and the other half at room temperature and see if there’s any real discernible differences between the two.
Yes, I just got it… I will also throw in a sample of American Patriot by Missouri Meershaum as It is a great tobacco I always reccomend for a beginner. It is a very fast PG extraction, if you use the @Kinnikinnick ‘hot bump start’ with 28g in 150ml of PG in a Pint Mason jar you will have a great extract in as little as 60 days. Of course 120 is better ! -
This is the best/fun part of creating your own extracts… trying things that others have done, as well as experimenting with your own technique of maceration. Don’t be shy about giving any/all methods a go. You might just discover something new.
Yeah… I should take care to be more specific about certain things. Sometimes I’m just hammering out on the keyboard what rides on the surface of my brain.
I reckon this question will come across as obvious to you, and most N.E.T. masters, but how does one heat the liquid for 6-8hrd at 125-150 °F?
(I imagine a slow cooker is used, with perhaps a shallow pool of water?) I’m using 1 US cup (237ml) Anchor (pyrex) jars for my 1oz steep if that changes anything…
Salute!!
