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NET Rating 14ea FLAVORAH synth "tobacco" samples

On a other forum (not going to name the person or the platform lol), but somebody very new to diy, put rich cinnamon at 5% I think it was in their mix. Saying he/she could barely taste it.

I don’t own that flavor but I heard it’s horribly potent. Anyway, Smokey offered to send that person 4oz of rich cinnamon, if he/she would record a video of vaping that mix.

I thought it was funny, but if you don’t know Smokey and I clearly don’t “know” her, but finally caught up on her input on flv flavors, people might think it’s rude and degrading, hence a huge fight started.

The reason I mention this here is, I think that’s how it got understood again, something down the line of she’s just a paid fan girl.

That’s a opinion everyone allowed to have of course, but unfortunately I think if taking that emotional stuff out, looking at her testing and explaination, can be extremely helpful.

At least for me it was, I stopped testing every flavor at a set percentage, regardless of brand with her method, and while I can’t taste 0.02% of a cap or even flv flavor in my kylin mini, doesn’t mean she cant. Thank you for that @anon84779643

Point is, and that’s in general not addressed at you, even tho I quoted you above, giving some flavors a chance at lower percentage might yield a different result.

Either way it’s still helpful and if the topic was net vs authentic, then regardless of percentage is still valuable.

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The issue is:

He did not state he did anything in a lower amount, if he had, he would have posted that into too… he jumped right to 5% and had said he “did his research” on sft (but musta missed the flv learning curve.) Did not even say if it was a add flavor to base and suck down, or a add flavor to base and how long it sat… I can imagine what that 15% cured tobacco is doing right now! Talk about hitting all the zombie and freak zones, with plastic wrap… yeah its what one gets for going so high, might as well just vaped the flavor straight up.

He could not answer why he went higher, when I had even posted up I have people that can taste it at 1 drop in 10ml… but yet too cured up to 15%… why???

exactly… and yes I would still wait… and would suggest for him to give his poor mouth a rest (after 15% cured tobacco, poor soul is in dire need to!) and try again this time next month with lower and within normal range of usage. Thought I made that perfectly clear… however… everyone here feels under attack, and I wonder why on that as well.


How to resolve the solo flavor testing: by starting low and working up… nothing else can or will help, and it is how to create your own recipes better, and better suited for your own tounge. I have yet to see anyone goof from doing just that…

Working with a flavor overload tho… will handicap you in the end.

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I am not paid… and that offer was straight out of my pocket… :wink:
I am not an employee of FLV yet I do work for a lab, and under contract I can not disclose my work.
I love my job too much. :slight_smile: lol…

but… lets get it all clear here… I am not beating anyone up… I only want to know why we do what we do.
I do not believe wanting to know something is a crime, or attacking anyone.

If I can help improve what we inhale, and make it even better, you bet I will carry the info right back to my boss.

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Oh yeah I know, just using the words above lol. But thanks for pointing it out, because I really believe that is what lots of people think, after reading your statement, not just in this topic.

As I said, have to get to “know” you, as far as internet can do that, before disregarding the information and putting you into that stereotypical drawer :wink:

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The only way it is wrong is if “she” or who ever it is… made it and then made you vape it :stuck_out_tongue:
then again if it is you and not I… is that wrong?? :slight_smile:

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Some clarification is in order to explain why I used this 5% technique to SFT the samples. Please consider the following two points:

1.) In professional flavor testing it is customary to use high intensity samples in order to make the process of determining the overall profile of the sample easier and more readily accessible for the tester. A good example is in professional coffee cupping where a rigorous and repeatable protocol is used to infuse the coffee under test. The ratio is 2 to 4 times the eventual brewed rate. This is done to make more readily accessible the flavor profile by using a small liquid volume amount taken in by the tester for each new sample. The goal is testing in other words to note and detect the desirable as well as any defects. The goal is not to make a consumable ‘brewed’ cup of coffee.

2.) In the world of vaping there has developed two distinct styles of vaping, similar to the world of coffee where there is espresso pressure extraction and pour over filter techniques. With vaping we now have high volume direct lung sub-ohm, and then low volume MTL… Please consider the physics with that. The volatilized amount of components taken in by either the tester or the end users is different by many multiples for each technique. Sub-ohm recipes typically uses less that 3mg/ml Nicotine, where, in contrast, MTL typically uses 12mg/ml, a multiple of 4x to account for the difference in amount given over to the user during the draw. The flavor percentage that control flavor presence of the final recipes also differ with each style by similar ratios, typically 4x or more. For example in NET MTL recipes it is not unusual to have 15% where as in sub-ohm typically the controlling flavors are held to a total that usually does not exceed 2% to 3%.

In fact, the recipe noted by one of the posters as very well liked, Winstin, has a controlling flavor ratio of 2.5% and is meant for sub ohm. If I was to make this recipe for MTL, it would be very likely I would at least double that to 5%, the same amount as I used for my SFT.

I want to take a moment to respond to the posted reactions to my appraisal of the FLAVORAH samples I tested. I am more than a little surprised that the comments are so negative, as actually I rated more than 1/2 the samples as either good to very good and usable for synth work-a-like tobacco recipes. In fact I rated 2 as excellent, the Kentucky Blend and the Virginia Tobacco. I rated only 3 out of the 14 as having defects. The remaining ones were not to my correlation standard as acceptable for labeling with the term ‘tobacco’, but that is not to say that they were defective, just to say i would have preferred that the manufacturer labeled them as something else more in line with their actual flavor profile.

It is worth noting that FLAORAH has done pretty well with that turn out on my tests, as anyone who has dabbled with making their own NETS knows it is typical to get less than a 25% success rate. Typically the NET experimenter throws a good deal of his efforts out in the garbage as having severe defects. I think the same is probably true for those of you that buy commercial synths. Probably the list of ‘keepers’ from your last order to Bull City is not anywhere near 100%.

I hope this all helps to clarify my original post.

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Well now… everyone has their own way of taste testing DIY concentrates, huh? :wink:

For me, as pain staking as it was… I did typically use a 1%, 3%, 5% test mix method for just about every artificial/synthetic concentrate. It did prove useful for me, albeit time consuming. At the end of my artificial/synthetic testing days, I did eventually just start making up 5% test batches from the get go. If it was awful, I backed it down to a lower percentage. I do the same thing with my NET creations today; mix it on the high side and back it down if the extract is too bold.

To each his/her own way of doing things, I say. :grin:

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First: You assume a lot, and without any experience, or even tested yourself on this recipe.

Go mix this as I have it, then without changing a thing other than your pg/vg and see how you like it in a mtl device.

For Flavorah… even with a sub ohm turned to a mtl juice… I do not raise my flavor amounts. :wink:
Try it out and see, but… you will have to pick up, or purchase those flavors, to give your opinion and like us all, we have our own.

Getting up in my mail wanting to “discuss away from this forum” about my recipe… and when I did and you respond this way… eh… dude… lol you assume you know a bunch… in reality tho… keep on keeping on with what you know and enjoy… glad you had you test run… this explains nothing more to me, still as… you really did not test in full… low to high is the normal way of doing things… If no one explained that when you started mixing, you should have figured it out by now. With ultras, there isn’t much need to raise it for a 50/50 blend… and I can only imagine, Mr 15% how your tongue is atm.

I can’t even finish reading your post, 50… I tried to help you last night in pm… and now this wappy explanation?? Im heading to bed… I think I am going to avoid certain posts now… and eh who cares… do what ever you want, post vape mix… lick it up, snort it roll around in it… drink it. … I can not help someone not willing to help themselves and explore, even when given free flavors. wow… Please do not send me mail again. What info I have given you, try it for yourself before spouting things like this.

Peace chill and try to have the rest of your nights go well.

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I think that’s a good idea. We CAN disagree WITHOUT being disagreeable here. It really sounds like your having a temper tantrum. WHY ?? I know I really don’t have a dog in this catfight BUT I love this place and your being just plain MEAN. Why ?? So you don’t agree with his findings. So what !! Life goes on…

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If you saw someone using tpa @ 25% wouldn’t you try hard to enlighten them? That is about the adjusted equivalent.

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I got pulled into this.

At least @Kinnikinnick knows if it tastes bad, to back down and try again…

I can see Alpine at 25% too yeah buddy!!

I am pulling out. I can not help someone that obviously does not want or need my help.
He is doing great!

If he thinks flv is like his nets, week and limp… that is on him. use more, buy more… YAY!!
Since he thinks ejuice is like coffee and should be forced higher… yeah he is on the right track, carry on, who the hell am I to disagree?

If I am mean by stating all of this… so be it. but those that use flv on a regular basis, know better.

If I am so mean by stating my opinions on a thread I got pulled in on, so be it.

I was taught… less is more, less is better and better for you.
What we have here is a failure to communicate… a failure to understand…

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I think 50 is right in his testing. Vaping has been around since 2007 and coffee since the 15th century. So his testing is solid.

He is half a mellennium ahead of you. Catch up.

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I think this person “smokey_blue” has some sort of issues, I am not sure what is going on there. I suspect she has built some sort of marketing concept plan for FLAVORAH, either as a paid consultant or perhaps taken a percentage payment for orders generated by her web site, which IS an e-commerce site. You can place orders for FLAVORAH products directly there and I assume they are filled by what she has referred to as “her lab”… So there is a conflict of interests there for sure. If you read her material you will see that a lot of it is out of the current playbook of social media pyramid marketing. Things like "and if you use this, postup that you just love Flavorah flavors and give me a shout "

In any event, the synth manufacturers do not want the light of day shining on their compounding techniques, and accurate flavor testing reveals what they are up to. This is a little like the magician that keeps the “trick” a secret. In the case of FLAVORAHs tobacco line of tobacco products, if you read my testing results carefully you will see what they are up to creating this product line. Basically they take one of three different readily available synthetic smoke types and mix them in subtle and different ways with three other top flavors, mostly different nut shell hull types flavors like walnut and almond. In some cases they have used artificial wine flavorings. This is a clever way to create a product line, and not an unreasonable way to get somewhere in the realm of “tobacco”. I am sure FLAVORAH had this done for them, probably under contract by professionals from the food flavoring industry. That’s the way re-sellers approach such a project and create ‘flavoring product lines’.

The problem in this forum thread is that their marketing gal has wrapped this in a cloak of gimmick sales pitches like “ultra flavorings”, and the mantra “FLAVORAH is different”… and so forth. And, of course the “magic trick” must remain as a closely guarded secret, so from that we get the “that tester does not know what he is doing, has made bad mistakes in his testing, so disregard his explorations into our products, rather, everyone please jump on board with 'we must try to enlighten this newbie”

-I can understand all this, and it is fine with me, as it is the way the food industry has worked for a very long time. An example is the closely guarded ‘secret formulas’ of the major cola and soft drink manufacturers… The idea that there is some sort of ‘special secret’ to Coke versus Pepsi, is just marketing nonsense. Under the cover, it is just very standard professional flavor compounding techniques that must meet the goals of repeatable consistency of manufacture, low cost, and a reliable supply of raw precursor chemicals.

On a personal note, I have a very thick skin, especially when it comes to the question she is raising about my palate. I have been around tobacco for longer than she has probably been alive, so the idea that my palate is “new and inexperienced” is grating, but easily dismissed.

-:grin:

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I guess you missed it… again!!

I do not work for Flavorah!
Yes you can buy things on my site… if I did not have it in vacation mode, but… You can’t.
I do not want your money… thank you anyways. Not that I think you will buy anything, either.
No, Flavorah does not fill my orders, thank you very much!

So take your tirade, and your 15, 25 and 50% ideas and like go play with flavor west or something…
Or go pay for more flavorah, or medicine flower or something… traffic comes to mind too.

If I said once, I say it now… I do not work for Flavorah!! :slight_smile:

assumptions, yet again…

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:joy::joy::joy: Thanks for that! Your skin is about as thick as a onion skin.

Your habit of sending PMs and calling people that disagree with you trolls speaks volumes of your character. You took this disagrrement to PM and then come here, on this thread, to blast them after that didn’t work out. :joy::joy::joy:

Oh I can’t stop laughing. Priceless!

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Hmm. Seems like we are getting off topic. @50YearsOfCigars I would still love to hear you thoughts at the 1-2%

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I think after that 5, 10, 15% cured tobacco, we can count that one as empty…
Maybe he should have started low and worked up. Who am I to say tho…
Go big or stay home, eh? :stuck_out_tongue:

I think back years ago, and I wish I had someone like me to help guide me into mixing.
I wouldn’t have made the mistakes I have had done, but then I wouldn’t know what I was talking on either.

Now with so much info and everyone is an expert… yeah…

But I am grateful…
I am. My mail box has run over from here to Facebook and beyond. and I just want to say thank you to those that have appreciated bits and snips that have helped. Most of these tobaccos should be run from .2-.25% up to around 1.25-1.5% depending on the mix, and what else is going on. and even then, that is heavy to me. It could be light to others… but if you run mixes up too high, and experience bad results… go back down. It might take a bit for you to even think to retry… but if and when you do… low is your friend on ultra concentrated flavorings. Flavorah to me just happens to be king of flavoring. After all these years of mixing with them and a few others… I have yet to become bored, I am not missing out on a thing and I enjoy what I mix.

My work and business life should not matter to anyone, unless you want to pay my bills. :slight_smile:

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First of all, i just want to say that i appreciate your knowledge base when it comes to flavoroah. I have mixed a few of your recipes and they were fantastic. Whenever i am thinking about purchasing a new flavor i check out your notes first. I appreciate the effort and hard work that you put into educating the masses . I just dont understand why you got so upset. His palate may be slightly different than yours. Isnt that why we are here, to learn and grow as mixers. I like rich cinnamon as a SF @ 3%, depending on my mood. Some would call that % too high, but too high for who ?

I just found this a bit much

Ok now I’ve taken my nose out of it. Let’s get back to mixing some awesome combos. @anon84779643 :smile::):grinning:

I tried my best to stay away from this thread, but it has become very hard to sit silent when there are some clear issues with the method used while testing these flavors.

I did notice your comment that your notes/ratings are how FLV TOBACCOS relate to the actual tobacco flavors. Even NETs aren’t true to an actual smoked tobacco. Yes NETs are derived from actual tobacco, but unless you light and burn them, you won’t get the same effect as smoking. If anything it’ll be closer to chewing tobacco. I know this from experience, but in some cases they are closer to the real thing than some synths.

Most times when testing flavors a user will seek a % that best represent where the tested flavor tastes best, but there was no effort to find the sweet spot… (if there is a sweet spot for you). So even if the flavors you rated good (compared to real tobacco) it’ll still be hard to accept your findings even though they are favorable.

I also notice you saying you get a plastic note from from several of the flavors you tested. This is also called a chemical taste with some synth flavors and is not exclusive to synth tobaccos. This is common when some concentrates are over flavored.

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