New database error discussion thread

[fidalgo_vapes]

And it will only be a matter of time before the complaints about that start up again…There is no winning.

“100k bad names it seems it wont take long until it is just as shitty as before.”

[TorturedZen]

@JiM210

If you look at 02 (Invalid Name or Unknown Brand) and look at the recipes that use it there are 59+ pages of recipes that use it.

Just an FYI…Any flavor names that began with 01, 02, %1 etc were flagged as Invalid because there were either no brands indicated or they were simply unrecognizable. If I recall, a sizable chunk of them were in other languages like Chinese, Russian, Korean as well. A concerted effort was made by utilizing Google Translator, but it became massively tedious and I ended up just being overwhelmed due to the sheer numbers.

[Ken_O_Where]

Man there were so many, i didnt even notice until Gregor pointed it out when he submitted some, insane number of squiggly flavors.

[TorturedZen]

@fidalgo_vapes

And it will only be a matter of time before the complaints about that start up again

I’ll take the complaining and haters over 100K of bad flavor names any day.

[TorturedZen]

** Indeed!

[Lynda_Marie]

@Frunkster

did find one flavour listed for this “Raspberry Candy ( framboise) FA”

Same exact thing happened to me yesterday with this same flavor. I’m really beginning to dislike this whole merge process. I have an invalid cake flavor, but when you click notes it’s saying it’s a one shot pineapple upside down cake. I’ve never purchased anything like that. No idea what it is.

[Lynda_Marie]

@TorturedZen

Any flavor names that began with 01, 02, %1

Cereal 27 (Capella) was 02 “invalid “ I think this was the first flavor that had that came up invalid. Also a handful of The Flavor Smiths came up invalid.

[Lynda_Marie]

A handful of the new line The Flavor Smiths got the axe. Some are completely gone, like coconut jam.

And, there are 4 pages of recipes for this. Granted for 2023 this was a complete deep dive, BUT, notes are valuable to some people. This flavor is still being sold at DIYVS. Every time I enter notes, I enter the name, & the flavor house.

[Lynda_Marie]

@SessionDrummer

Imp Dust by Gremberry Farms,

Holy smokes! THANK YOU! That’s what some of my invalids are, Gremberry or Gremlin, I just about love you right now lmao I forgot about Imp Dust, I actually like it as a single flavor. You made my morning!

[SessionDrummer]

@Lynda_Marie

Holy smokes! THANK YOU! That’s what some of my invalids are, Gremberry or Gremlin, I just about love you right now lmao I forgot about Imp Dust, I actually like it as a single flavor. You made my morning!

Damned glad to hear it @Lynda_Marie.

I don’t have them all, BUT …

I do have a couple .....

@SessionDrummer

Creamy Coconut (Gremberry Farms)(One Shot) 13% (9-24-21) – This one was a super rich treat, and I had to wait till a second tankful to get a good grasp on it. I couldn’t decide if it was more of a Creamy Coconut, or a Coconut Custard. I think I’m leaning towards the Coconut Custard. A good ratio would be about 55% Custard, 45% Coconut. The custard seemed like a mix of maybe CAP’s VC and one or two others, that was perfectly suited for pairing with a Coconut. The overall impact was a super rich, and delicious custard, that flowed into a somewhat receded coconut. The coconut was similar to TPA’s Coconut Candy, which leaned towards more candied than natural, but not entirely. It was hard to completely identify the coconut because the custard base completely enveloped it, and, in a good way. The super rich, and almost perfect pairing of these two elements cannot be overstated here, and it really needs to be tasted to be fully understood. Very skillful on the balancing act between the two. Sweetness was above average, but felt where it should be, and @ 13%, it was very full, rich, and present, without being overbearing. If you are a coconut custard fan, this one WILL work out for you. Only minor takedowns, not for taste, but for it presenting more as a coconut custard, than a creamy coconut, and for the lighter, more recessed coconut notes. Very good mix here, and I’ve already polished off two tanks, if that’s any indication. 9/10.

Dryad (Gremberry Farms)(One Shot) 13% (10-3-21) – This one was billed as a Butter Pecan Ice Cream and at times, it did nail that, other times, it wandered around into almost an RY4 with some butterscotch. Every so often I got an almost burnt finish on it, but only every so often. @13% it was super full, and rich, and above mid level sweet. I’m not sure why it “wandered” around on me, but at times it was a fairly convincing BPIC. After (2) 3ml tester tanks, it was somewhat “gunky” so the sweetness was clearly to blame. Taste wise, and convincingly-wise it was fairly buttery, and tasty. Minor takeoffs as it did stray a bit to my tastes. Nicely done, and it felt good at 8.8/10.

Imp Dust (Gremberry Farms)(One Shot) 13% (9-24-21) – After reading @SteveTC review of this one, it actually COMPELLED me to buy a few of Gremlin’s “Solos” (One-Shots), and try them out. I think his review of this one was spot on. I found this not only an interesting pairing choice by Gremlin, but also a nicely executed one. Because of the custard/pudding elements, a 2 week steep seemed to be a wise choice. The Blackberry greeted you right out of the gate, and in the middle and end, the creamy, almost pudding-like custard carried throughout the finish. The Blackberry although tempered by the creamy custard, still held it’s own, and while missing some of the bright sparkly punchy notes, did not get lost in the mix. The custard (as SteveTC said), was almost pudding-like, with maybe just a HINT of eggy-ness, but it was soo low in the mix, it really did present as more of a pudding. At the very end, there was almost a smidge of dryness or bitterness, and I’m sure Gremlin could have erased that by adding more sweetness, but they didn’t, and that restraint, was well received. Sweetness was at, or just below mid level, and you COULD enhance if you felt it necessary. The pairing of the two main elements was skillfully done, and neither overpowered the other. I can see why this is one of their better sellers. While trying to deconstruct the Blackberry element, it almost seemed as if there was maybe some rich blueberry in there, to round out the blackberry. All in, this was a great Blackberry Custard, that was just fruity enough to keep it interesting, and creamy enough to keep you interested. Nicely done by Gremlin. Easily 9.8/10.

Pink Sunburst (Gremberry Farms)(One Shot) 13% (10-3-21) – Who doesn’t love Starburst ?? I sure do, and I was excited to try this one and see how close they came. I think this one was “in the ballpark” for me. Def. a pink candy of sorts, and there were aspects OF the Starburst in it, but it never truly took off for me. “Pink” was the best way to describe it, and being a medley of sorts, it was hard to pick out exact fruits, but needless to say, “Pink” was the implied profile. Just above mid level sweet, and 13% felt pretty good, and I don’t think increasing the rate would improve this one much. As it stood, just a so so flavor, and could be used to base/bolster pink candy vapes for sure. Leaving it solidly at a 6.5/10.

Purple Gremlin (Gremberry Farms)(One Shot) 13% (9-27-21) – Having never been a HUGE Grape Vaper, I am always anxious in trying a new one. This one, actually surprised me, and actually DID present, JUST like a Grape Bubblegum. Now I haven’t bubblegummed in years, so I won’t be able to precisely nail down which exact brand, BUT, it was an impressive, accurate representation of an American Bubble Yum-ish bubble gum, but tempered with a really good grape. Both the BBG and Grape were candied (duh), and I could almost pick out the pink in the gum, just below the grape. Gremlin did a skillful job of mixing the elements again, as they WERE perfectly paired. You could almost pick out the white (starch I think) coating on the outside of the gum. Was def. above mid level sweet, but what would you expect in a sugary gum. At this testing weight, it was nice, and in your face, but not overblown, and I actually liked the fact that I could pick out the pink gum, BUT, also the grape. Wow, actually, very spot on, and this is coming from the guy who doesn’t vape grape much. If you like bubble gum, and in the grape variety, I think you will not be disappointed with this one. This one might just make you want to vape the grape. 9.85/10.

Vanilla Overload (Gremberry Farms)(One Shot) 13% (10-3-21) – If you think about it, testing Vanillas can be tricky. Why ?? Most times, they’re Vanilla Custards, Vanilla Puddings, Vanilla Cookies, etc. Of course, when I loaded this one up, the first thing I thought of was, “Could this be as good as DIYFS Holy Vanilla” ? This might be, BUT, in a much different way. The first thing that hit me was how clean this one was. A nicely full, clean, somewhat lighter vanilla. Now just because it felt a bit lighter than say DIYFS HV, really didn’t leave it lacking in any way. At 13% it was nicely full, not overly rich, but did have some good mouthfeel. No custard, no pudding, no cookie, no ice cream here, just a mid to high brightness level vanilla that was fairly complex. It was full enough, that it could easily be pushed into a milkshake if needed. It had similarities to other Vanillas I have, but really felt more like a medley, and a surprisingly good stand alone one shot. For a very clean vanilla, with great mouthfeel, this one should work for you. Impressive @ 9.9/10.

White Gremlin(Gremberry Farms)(One Shot) 13% (10-9-21) – After much delay, finally able to get into this, my last Gremberry Farms One Shot in this series. This one, proved to be rather interesting. It was billed as a White Cake with a Berry filling. Actually, that’s pretty close. At 13% it was full, but still somewhat relaxed, and did convey a fairly convincing White Cake, but with an almost berry edge to it. The berry/berries was/were very low overall, and at times almost disappeared in the mix. Maybe by design ? The White Cake while very good, wasn’t the richest or fullest that I’ve had, but strangely that didn’t detract from the overall experience. The berry “edge” seemed to reveal itself closer to the very end, and “spiked the finish” as it were. The berry/berries tasted like a darker variant, and eluded exact classification, and had just a smidge of an almost jammy tartness that allowed it to push through the more dominant cake. At times I almost wished there was more of either the cake or berry, but even with that, it was a satisfying mix. All in, it was great flavor, and fairly unique, which is always nice when you’re looking to add another flavor to your collection. Sweetness was about mid level, and expected for a cake flavor, and the berry/berries kept it JUST a bit more interesting throughout. Finishing off this run with a nicely placed 9.1/10 with this one.

[TorturedZen]

As I said before, I am painfully aware of the the Cereal 27 issue as well as some of the others. If you want accountability ok here I am, flame away. But if you’re looking for answers as to why all that happened I honestly can’t tell you because I do not know.

The database merge process is, to my knowledge the only method for dealing with the tens of thousands of wonky names…but it is also a very unforgiving mechanism if something goes awry. I have heard talk of Lars exploring a way to maybe reverse some of the mishaps, so there’s that.

But I do know this…flavor name entries and new flavor submissions by any user must be shut off. We have all known this as truth for years now. Once that happens there will be no need for a merge process (except those names that are pre-existing). So again, until Lars deploys a re-coded Recipe Calculator we have to live with what God and Lars gives us.

[TorturedZen]

Here is a sample of what would qualify for a merge.
This is an actual recipe from yesterday.

No action has been taken, but can you see what the problem would be if this is merged into Cherry (Invalid/ No Brand Name)??

[Lynda_Marie]

@TorturedZen

So again, until Lars deploys a re-coded Recipe Calculator we have to live with what God and Lars gives us.

I completely understand you guys have been working tirelessly on trying to fix other’s mistakes. I totally wasn’t being rude. I think you’ve probably seen me comment on recipes that have errors asking people to please fix them. My stash only has 11 invalids, and most of them I don’t care about. I just wish there was some way to omit people inputting flavors in wrong. Like a red that would not let them move forward until they corrected it.

[fidalgo_vapes]

I dont have one invalid flavor in my stash .I had Cereal 27 but added it again and tada

[SessionDrummer]

I think I have 11, C27 was one of them. Some that I didn’t SFT, I can’t tell what they were.

[Frunkster]

I can understand totally that this whole process must have been very taxing & time consuming for you & Ken, as for the immediate solution to the ongoing mess of new invalid flavours being added back to the DB, I think this could be tackled by a small amount of coding to adjust the way adding flavours on the DB works -

So only known valid flavour with the correct spelling & brands included can be entered & there be some kind of submission form which is passed on to the admin team to look at & confirm prior to new flavours being added, I.E if it’s a new flavour from a brand / an unknown brand etc, then evidence in the form of screenshots from the manufactures be needed to confirm their legitimacy.

Taking the uncertainty out of the equation & not allowing members to just add any old thing into the DB.

How easy this change would be I am obviously not aware of, but I agree something needs to be done so random flavours can’t simply be added back further compounding the issue.

I have 1100+ flavours in my stash & I have several which I know were entered in correctly but have been removed/renamed or simply merged, I do know some of these were lesser known brands like DEA/CFL/Cornish Liquids etc, but they are all known brands with the correct names cross checked on the manufactures websites to be sure about getting them right.

[TorturedZen]

First, my apologies that some of your stash got whacked also. Some of my own did as well so I can relate to the frustration. But I use an offline calculator so I merely compared those offline recipes to my ELR whacked versions.

As for your suggestion, it’s a good one but ideas like yours as well as some others over the years have already been submitted to Lars. Making a change to the code, however small it might be, would be a significant project. Many variables would be involved which in turn would require a bunch of testing before the server could go live again. I’m no programmer but have worked in corporate IT before, so I’m relatively familiar with some of those processes. I’m just guessing but I think one reason Lars hasn’t moved on this yet is because he’s staring at a daunting task.

[Frunkster]

I’m no IT wizz myself so don’t know how much work is involved Dan, but my son does a lot of coding & seems to think it should not be a massive task, the testing on the other hand could well be, I also totally get where Lars is at on this as I run a couple of vintage collectors interest guides which are constantly being updated & you don’t always have that get up & go/mojo that’s required on tap.

I’ve actually not re entered any of the messed up flavours back into my stash, but would really like to try & get it back in order, just don’t want to be throwing petrol on the fire, I do know all the ones that need adding back are 100% confirmed real flavours from mainly little known brands, but the names I had them entered under were correct in terms of full name/correct brand (or abbreviation) & spelled correctly.

I do like yourself feel something needs to be done sooner rather than later to avoid more incorrectly named flavours being added to the DB, but TBH I would rather work around them than them being renamed/merged as that was creating a lot of work for myself & no doubt for others.

I know the system was a little broken in terms of all the wrongly entered flavour names, but as I said it was something you could navigate past without to much stress.

Fingers crossed Lars gets his 2nd wind going forward & we can all look forward to a positive future for ELR, as I firmly regard it as my mixing home & choose to keep supporting it & not using any other calculators for my mixing.

[TorturedZen]

@Frunkster

but TBH I would rather work around them

And that’s fine, for those of us that know better. But it’s also a double-edged sword. The recipe side gets new users virtually every day that don’t quite know how to navigate the names…so they enter their own and think nothing of it. Or they have somewhat of an idea but, either out of ignorance or laziness, they just select the first name that pops up. We who know how to navigate using workarounds are vastly disproportionate to the other users, who will likely just keep adding to the mess.

[SessionDrummer]

@TorturedZen wasn’t it you that suggested TWO databases ??

The first would be pre-loaded correct flavors, that would show up in the drop down list when adding ingredients. The would be correct flavors, and would add, and be shown in your recipes.

The second would be the @$%#%^$^& database. Any time a user added a random or incorrect flavor it would be added to THAT database, and it would force that recipe to private.

That way the clean database stays clean, and the dirty one, well …