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Nic salt mixing vs freebase nic

Okay so, because I am a very compulsive addictive personality, I have immersed myself in DIY for the past 5 months and have learned a lot from this site and all of the knowledgeable artists on here, and achieved more success than I expected in a relatively short period of time.
So here’s a question that might get some eye rolls!
I have a friend or two that vape nic salts.
I’ve read quite a bit about them but haven’t found a clear answer to this:
When mixing for someone to use the juice in a novo 2 or similar refillable pod device, do I mix the same as when I make my pg/vg freebase nicotine, and just sub out nic salts for the nicotine?
And when mixing for these lower wattage wussy e-cigs :slight_smile: do I need to make the flavors weaker, stronger, or leave the percentages alone? Okay that’s two questions.
Anyone?

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I suppose I should clarify one other thing.
Im looking at nic rivers salt nic @100mg hoping to use it with the calculator to adjust strength just as I do with my freebase nic.
Maybe the reason I haven’t heard this question answered is because it is obvious to others that (yes silly), that’s all you do.

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Nicotine Salts (being more acidic) are reportedly actually somewhat less efficiently absorbed than base Nicotine. All “vaporized” e-juice components at the coil-wick interface affect “absorption efficiency factor”.

While Salts of Nicotine may make it more aesthetically bearable to inhale higher Nicotine concentrations, the two are not (other than the efficiency differences due to pH, where Nic Salts may be inferior) otherwise different in Nicotine absorbed (up to ~75% of it that being through mucus-membranes of mouth, throat, and stomach to the CNS over ~30 minutes time). Regarding smoke/vapor pH and lung tissue absorption, Ciggie Tobacco uses Ammonia compounds which are added for a more basic pH, to increase Nicotine absorption.

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I use a (note, crude) “rule of thumb” - where I multiply the Nicotine concentration (in units of mg/ml) by the (average) power (in units of Watts). For me, the product often ends up in the range of ~100 or so. When I decrease power (to hold down temps), I increase Nicotine concentration accordingly - or, vice-versa, etc.

It seems “anybody’s guess” (without empirical testing) how various flavor molecules/compounds (having different thermal decomposition temperatures) will behave with the addition of an acidic (“salt”) component.

One detail is that Nic Salts (ie, with Benzoic Acid as Nicotine Benzoate) will have a higher molecular weight than Nicotine alone - and thus you may be charged for what is “Benzoic Acid” (1:1 molar) weight included. If that is the case (I’ve no idea), then one would be paying “double” for the Nicotine included. That would suck.

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I find it depends on both manufacture and recipe.

If you do your solos correct, you will know if you need to decrease or increase amounts of flavoring, for any device…

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Hey there… Your going to get a lot of different answers. My GF uses the original Novo pod system . When I mix a recipe for pods I try to eliminate creams and keep the profile as simple as possible …i also mix at 50 vg and 50pg… I do raise the percentage some but more important than raising your pct up make sure you know how high you can take that flavor heres an example of a Pod Recipe

Ive used the Cap as high as I think I can and back it up with another fruit loop cereal than I add another cereal type…IMO when making a pod recipe temember your not going to be able to taste multiple layers maybe two notes so use a Raspberry and Lemon those two flavors contrast but pair well the raspberry lemon is only an example of many pairings that will work.

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I’ve read salt nic has smaller molecules and are more readily absorbed in the lungs unlike freebase which is much more effective absorbed though mucus membranes.

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They are still the same Nicotine molecules, existing in physical proximity to molecules of the particular Acid used to form a Salt in solution (where various types of chemical bonds, including ionic, may exist). I wonder if what you read had to do with “aerodynamic particle size distribution” (rather than smaller molecular sizes).

This study found that:

The nicotine concentration inside droplets of refill liquid, whatever the aerodynamic size-fractions in the submicron range, is constant for a given PG/VG ratio of refill liquid.

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Deeper (into aerodynamic particle size itself, as it may relate to Nicotine absorption activity in lungs):

Particle size is the major determinant in the deposition and distribution of inhaled drug within the lungs and hence is related to local efficacy. The particle size distribution of an aerosol is usually expressed in terms of its mass median aerodynamic diameter (MMAD). Particles deposit in the respiratory tract by inertial impaction (3-6 mm), sedimentation (1-3 mm), and diffusion (<1 mm). To reach the lower respiratory tract past the carina, the MMAD of inhaled particles should be less than 5 mm in diameter; specifically, the particle size with the most efficient deposition in the small airways, so-called extrafine particle fraction, is said to be less than 2 mm. … Although it is widely accepted that for efficient lung deposition, the MMAD should be lower than 5 mm, it is more controversial what happens to small particles with MMAD lower than 1 mm. It is conventionally believed that particles lower than 1 mm are mainly exhaled and therefore may not able to elicit any therapeutic activity within the lungs, because of their extremely low settling velocity. … We have therefore evaluated the relationship between in vitro MMAD and in vivo lung deposition (LD), and the exhaled fraction (EF) expressed as fraction of the delivered dose. … the relationship between the ratio of EF to LD and MMAD was also evaluated. … the present data demonstrate that the EF/LD ratio is independent from the MMAD, suggesting that extrafine particles will not be associated with an appreciably higher exhaled fraction.

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I have no experience with nic salts so I can’t comment, but you shouldn’t be embarrassed to ask anything… So perhaps change that title into something more relevant to the question :slight_smile: Other people looking for similar answers would be helped by it too.

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I found that everything effects the mix’s taste. So I do what I have to do to make my mix taste the way I want it to taste.

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Good idea, lets see if I can do it…

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I know what nic salts are, I just wanted to know how to use them in mixing e-juice.
Oh my dear Raven, whatever would I do without your polysyllabic thesaurus-word infested pontifications, replete with hyperbolic employment of words parenthetical (lots and lots) and run on paragraphs tantamount to (the most high brow) college thesis papers?
I’m thinking of purchasing for you a reverse thesaurus so you can look up word synonyms made for regular human consumption.
After reading your words I need dialect Rolaids.
Thank you for your response though.
Thanks everyone!
I’m going to mix like I do normal e-juice, and adjust accordingly. In fact, I have several new empty pods I can play with for my “cbd” novo2 pod.
And yes Fidalgo, I thought that avoiding long steeping custards and coil killers would be to my advantage. Thanks.

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I dont use pods but with a decent mtl tank i use same recipes as dtl tank just change to 50 50.
To get same amount of nicotine mg will have to be higher i did 3mg for dtl and 10 for mtl.

Edit dont right of creams until you try. some mtl setups play very well with creamy mixes.

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And perhaps with some steep time…

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Imagine that…

I think I might have said something like this too… maybe?

Only a few days if you use the right flavors… :slight_smile:

but what do I know? :smiley:

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Who do you think i learned it from :wink:

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but I know Nothing I tell you!! except my bottles are empty, it’s mixing day…
maybe one day I will share more new recipes… :stuck_out_tongue:

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I’ve distilled the subject-matter down to a more accessible form for sundry ruminations, while at the same time addressing that ever burning intellectual flame in the unrelenting quest for meaningful knowledge. :thinking:

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aWNOHWy

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Free base. No salts here. Does your list offered include endorsement of Acerbic Acid (Nicotine Acerbate) ?

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Should it be endorsed? Is that something new or better? Only heard of the 5 types beliow.

But it is intersting reading about all the different properties of the various types for sure!

Nicotine Levulinate, Nicotine Benzoate, Nicotine ditartrate, Nicotine salicylate, Nicotine Lactate

(Descriptions @ middle of page)

Also find this blurb interesting from the page.

From an organoleptic perspective different salts also seem to work better with different flavours.

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