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NYS flavor ban would include possession of flavored liquids - link to rule included - electronic_cigarette

If I am reading this right it would be illegal even to posses any flavored eliquid in NY other than tobacco or menthol.
Please if anyone could clarify, I am not legal savvy.
Click on link to see the document from ny state

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Here is a link to a somewhat easier to read copy of the same proposed rule making statement
(NY state I.D. No. HLT-45-18-00006-P), published November 7, 2018 (a fairly long time ago).

A quick look at rule-making processes in New York State sets forth the normal process:

A New York State Agency itself:

Writes proposed rule.

Prepares a Regulatory Impact Statement to
address the impact on regulated parties, as well
as a Regulatory Flexibility Analysis for Small
Businesses and Local Governments, Rural Area
Flexibility Analysis and Job Impact Statement.

Obtains approval to proceed from the Governor’s
Office of Regulatory Reform.

Submits the proposed rule, with accompanying
statements, to the Department of State for publication
in the New York State Register; submits
copies to ARRC and legislative leaders.

Considers public comment for a required
statutory period of time (minimum of 45 or 60
days, depending on situation). If substantial
changes are required, submits a revised notice
for publication in the Register, initiating another
(30-day) comment period.

Adopts the final rule.

Files text of adopted rule with the Department
of State’s Division of Administrative Rules, with
an Assessment of Public Comment.

Source: https://www.dos.ny.gov/info/pdfs/rulechrt.pdf

See also: https://www.dos.ny.gov/info/faq.html

I do not see further activities (of the state publishing) documents pertaining to that (Nov, 2018) posting. Below is a link where interested readers can watch the NY State Register (and search by keyword(s)):

https://govt.westlaw.com/nyreg/Index?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)

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UPDATE: The text of the (90-day duration) Rule approved on September 17, 2019 at this meeting is here:

https://www.health.ny.gov/facilities/public_health_and_health_planning_council/meetings/2019-09-17/docs/title_10_nycrr.pdf

Folks can read it. I will be reading it, and may post some comments about any “possession” provisions.

A separate (Power Point style) PDF format “presentation” from the State of New York is here:

https://www.health.ny.gov/facilities/public_health_and_health_planning_council/meetings/2019-09-17/docs/emergency_action.pdf

“Possession” appears to be restricted to “paid and/or profiting persons” involved in commercial distribution:

Section 9-3.1 Definitions.

[c] The term “possession” means having physical possession or otherwise exercising dominion or control over flavored e-liquids or a product containing the same. For purposes of this definition, among other circumstances not limited to these examples, the following individuals and/or entities shall be deemed to possess flavored e-liquids, or a product containing the same: (1) any individual or entity that has an ownership interest in a retail, distribution or manufacturing establishment that possesses, distributes, sells or offers for sale flavored e-liquids, or a product containing the same; and (2) any clerk, cashier or other employee or staff of a retail establishment, where the establishment possesses, distributes, sells or offers for sale a flavored e-liquids or a product containing the same, and who interacts with customers or other members of the public.

Note: Section 9-3.2 appears to make (any) person “distributing” e-juices a violator of the Rule. This would appear to mean that any person (including not-profiting persons) gifting e-juices would (also) be in violation.

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Section 9.31(b) is wholly incoherent in its ignorance. Essentially not (rationally, objectively) enforcable:

The term “flavored e-liquid” means any e-liquid with a distinguishable taste or aroma,
other than the taste or aroma of tobacco or menthol, imparted either prior to or during
consumption of an e-cigarette or a component part thereof, including but not limited to
tastes or aromas relating to any fruit, chocolate, vanilla, honey, candy, cocoa, dessert,
alcoholic beverage, mint, wintergreen, herb or spice, or any “concept flavor” that parts
a taste or aroma that is distinguishable from tobacco flavor but may not relate to any
particular known flavor.

Virtually all Tobacco leaf products are “flavored” with a veritable plethora of such (non-tobacco) additives.

.

Department of Health officials will start conducting visits to enforce the flavoring ban beginning on October 7. Retailers who violate the ban will face fines of up to $2,000 per violation, which is defined as each unit of flavored e-liquid or product containing e-liquid that is possessed, manufactured, sold or offered for sale, health officials said.

The good news there is that it looks like enfarcement responsibilities may fall upon overworked NY State Department of Health bureaucrats (as opposed to state/county/local police personnel, who likely are not interested in an additional work-load). The inevitable result would seem (to me) to be a flourishing “illicit” market in e-juices - one almost assured to be causative of far more dangers and harms than not prohibiting.

Page 9 of the Rule contains a built-in monetary incentive to cite and penalize by fines (to fund enfarcement):

Costs to State Government and Local Government:
State and local governments will incur costs for enforcement. Exact costs cannot be predicted at this time because the extent of the need for enforcement cannot be fully determined. Some of the cost however may be offset by fines and penalties imposed pursuant to the Public Health Law as well as through utilizing State Aid funding.

So, get in on the punitive governmental revenue-sucking inquisitory opportunity, local law enfarcement:

Local governments have the power and duty to enforce the provisions of the State Sanitary Code, including 10 NYCRR Part 9, utilizing both civil and criminal options available.

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Suggest every vaper in NY carry around unflavored PG/VG, just joking. They will nail you with something that would be illegal.

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Rule, Page 8:
Adult smokers who want to continue to use e-cigarettes will have the option of unflavored, menthol or tobacco flavored e-cigarettes.

Ironically, while the Rule (on Page 8) states:

Some e-cigarette flavors contain diacetyl, the buttery-flavored chemical that is used in foods like popcorn and caramel. When inhaled, diacteyl can cause bronchiolitis obliterans, a scarring of the tiny air sacs in the lungs that is commonly referred to as “popcorn lung,” which is a serious concern that has symptoms that are similar to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

… the Rule does not prohibit e-juices from containing Diacetyl. (Perhaps) because it is in Tobacco smoke.

The highly trusted source on many related issues, Dr Michael Siegel noted (in 2015) that:

New Study Finds that Average Diacetyl Exposure from Vaping is 750 Times Lower than from Smoking

Even in the case of Tobacco smoke exposure, causal links to “bronchiolitis obliterans” are lacking (2014):

Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione inhalation have been suggested as causes of severe respiratory disease, including bronchiolitis obliterans, in food/flavoring manufacturing workers. Both compounds are present in many food items, tobacco, and other consumer products, but estimates of exposures associated with the use of these goods are scant. … because smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor for bronchiolitis obliterans, our findings are inconsistent with claims that diacetyl and/or 2,3-pentanedione exposure are risk factors for this disease.

The (so shocking) truth is that these (of various party affiliation) politicians live and breathe pure horseshit !

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TL;DR. Illegal, yes, no?

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The human race has made it this far in spite of itself. It’s a true wonder.

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Enforcement.
Gentlemen, what’s up?
Oh hello officer, we were just thinking about going into this record store to see if they have any records.
Well, I’m on vape beat today…
Excuse me vape beat?
Well yeah, by the authority vested in me by the state of New York, I have been given the task of seeking out vapers in the city, to be sure that they are within the guidelines of what the government deems safe for humans.
Oh, I see! Well me and Tommy here, we’re enjoying this lovely day by grabbing a bite to eat, looking at t-shirts and records, and vaping this delicious vape juice that we got off of e-liquid recipes from a mixer called fogchef, its called Apricot pipe tobacco.
Tobacco, huh? What’s this ‘apricot’ thing?
Well, this particular recipe is 2 percent apricot flavoring, but also has a flavor called Soho, and ry4 Asian, there’s some vanilla swirl at a low percentage and another called liquid amber and black honey. Its designed to mimic my dads pipe tobacco when you sniff the pouch of tobacco.
Well guys, we need to make sure you’re smoking the real stuff, not just coil killers, but people killers, you know, cigarettes.
Analogs?
Huh?
Never mind, so combustibles?
Uh, yeah, cigarettes, or at least vape juice that tastes as bad as cigarettes, like ash, tar, donkey ass, campfire, burning house, ammonia, you know. Because if the flavors are delicious that might lead little kiddies to start vaping and then they might start smoking cigarettes,and cigarettes are bad so we don’t want to start making cigarettes seem not bad, so no apricot.
So we can smoke cigarrettes?
Well,not here, no.
You have to be more than 50 feet from everything because second hand smoke could kill everyone else in the world if they get a whiff, but yeah, no apricot ever, anywhere. Only donkey ass.
Ill need to sniff your tank.
Excuse me?
Your tank. I need to sniff it.
Umm… Okay, here.
Sniffs tank.
Smells good. That’s bad. Turn around and put your hands behind your back.
What did I do wrong sir?
You made a delicious alternative to cigarettes, and that’s against the law.

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:policeman: I smell strawberries! Pull over shit head this is the cops lol! :police_car:

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Vape police? woz in dat mix uh? Strawberriez and cream??

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The fun starts when the gang bangers and cartels start killing each other over territories.

There’s blood in the streets, it’s up to my ankles
Blood in the streets, it’s up to my knee
Blood in the streets in the town of Chicago
Blood on the rise, It’s following me.

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Tiger Blood??

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Puts a bit of shade over Bloomberg’s motives when he is an investor in this

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No information relating Bloomberg found anywhere within your provided link. What are we missing here ?

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Backstage Capital is Bloomberg (Pretty sure that is the one the news was broken on the vaping legion and i would have to go back thru the stream to confirm that is the correct company)

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I am not finding confirmation on the interent (FWIW). I find these mentions (including no Bloomberg results):

Company information: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/backstage-capital

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cued up to the relevant section

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Sorry. My browser codecs (Opera on WinXP) cannot do YouTube HTML5 video. If an association actually exists, it would be nice to see any (other) evidence of such a relationship - as we are such sticklers for our rigorous ideas surrounding reliable info sources. I would think that such skepticism would be globally applied.

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Speaking of Bloomberg (media), I saw this pretentious and weepy half-baked hack-job of an opinion piece authored by a writer with a degree in geophysics who has taken it upon herself to become master of pain medicine, pseudo-psychiatry, toxicology, “addiction”, and everything else about how she deems we plebians could and should be living our lives. Such a piece of feckless/worthless crap that I did not share it - until now:

Laying on the nanny bullshit real thick : “The Medical Community Has Been Complicit in Opioids and Vaping

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In fairness, Little Daddy Mike’s cyber-rag (also) published a somewhat “insurgent” (from his own) opinion:

(September 23, 2019): “Vaping Is a Problem. Banning It Would Be, Too.

Kind of a classy touch after his recent expurgation of “Righteous Bloombast”:

Bloomberg Takes on Vaping After Giving $1 Billion to Fight Tobacco
New York’s former mayor has committed $160 million to ban flavored e-cigarettes amid a series of efforts designed to increase oversight of the industry

Mr. Bloomberg, the former mayor of New York City, said that his Bloomberg Philanthropies would aim to ban the flavored e-cigarettes in at least 20 cities and states.

(September 10, 2019, co-authored by Bloomberg): “Ban Flavored E-Cigarettes to Protect Our Children. We know Big Tobacco’s playbook: It is targeting kids - and putting them in serious danger

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