A friend has asked me to make some RY4 juice to replace his commercial alternative that is a lot less sweet than the TPA RY4 Double. The overall TFA flavor profile is very close to what he has, just a lot sweeter than the commercial stuff heâs vaping now.
Oh, originally you said it was too sweet for your palette.
Well yeah, he got me back to tobacco flavors as well and I find it a bit too sweet too 
I said Iâll check out the Hangsen RY1 flavor d_fabes suggested but I wonât get them overnight.
That doesnât mean I wonât keep looking for that RY4 flavor that my friendâs commercial juice uses. Iâm sure there must be something similar and less sweet than what TFA has.
Well, you can start with RY1 and add sweetener as suggested, sweetener is cheap. Of course you may not like using sweeteners.
Or try 50 / 50, RY4D (or RY4) & RY1 as your tobacco base. You can always add a hint of another flavor to adjust itâs personality.
Who knows what other flavor elements might have been added to a commercial RY4 Double mix. Itâs anyoneâs guess. One thing is for sure. When you start from scratch youâll know exactly what is in it, and have an accurate baseline to adjust from.
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I know nothing about RY4, so that qualifies me to comment here: 
But what I do know about is tobacco extractions. My observation is that @d_fabes is right on target. If it is RY4 you want to fool around with then make your own and control all aspects of it. FYI it is a given that commercial RY4 is made using Tobacco Absolute extracts, you can get these from several specialized sources on the internet I think, or you can make your own NETs and start from there.
There are several threads here on RY4s from Nets. There are 1/2 a dozen suggested recipes in that thread that will give you a place to start. and also see the overview of NETs in general.. If you want to give that a try, but making your own NETs is too much of a hassle then PM me, as I have some information on NET samples.
As much as I dislike the general tone of voice over there, and try to avoid ECF at all costs, there is this rather interesting thread on things RY4
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What @d_fabes says, try the RY1.
Iâm not really into RY4 either, itâs just not enough tobacco for me.
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RY4 D components is cyclotene, vanillin, ethyl maltol, water, PG. IMO sweetnes mostly comes from cyclotene and vanillin. So lower the RY4d and add more Cotton Candy (Ethyl Maltol 10%). For example RY4d @ 8% and Cotton candy @ 4%. A ratio 2/1. I think that it would need 2-3 weeks steep.
https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/componentlist.aspx?sku_search=346093
So where do the tobacco notes come from ???
From the compination of Ethyl Maltol and Cyclotene. For example Ethyl maltol Descriptions: sweet, burnt cotton sugar candy like, with jammy, strawberry notes. And IMO from the taste and the throat hit of your nicotine.
so there is no actual baccey in it?
According to TPAâs components list, no.
itâs all good. i know they combined stuff to get the desired taste, just odd that there is no actual 'baccey in a 'baccey mix
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They are just looking for, and report, a limited group of single compound finger prints that they have pre-programmed into a GC/MS machine. If they programmed the over 400 found in a sample of TA the resultant report would be a hopeless confusion. See complete compound listings (of molecules) that TPA would have to track here, obviously an impossible task .
I know that but I am pretty sure that in this case is not something hidden, not something like TA at least. Also TPA has no problem to give biggest components lists like the follow for example
https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/componentlist.aspx?sku_search=600179
Also RY4d has not a real tobacco taste just a sweet and burnt caramelish maple like flavor and vanillin. Is not like, lets say, Virginia FA.
Right, what they have done is bought an off the shelf MS machine and programmed it with this:
> https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fcn/fcnnavigation.cfm?rpt=eafuslisting
or they have contracted it out to a lab that does this sort of thing. âTobaccoâ is not in that list. The reason is that tobacco is not just one compound. There is an old expression 'if you donât ask the right question you will never get the right answer". You can ask a pre-programmed MS all day long to find love, but itâs not in its database, so it always comes up lonely 
I will take your word for the flavor profile on RY4. I know I am probably the only person on this forum that has never vaped RY4 !!! I am just a converted cigar type that makes his own NETs so I know nothing. Except a little chemistry, after a 40 year career as an industrial manufacturing chemist (explosives of all things !!! )
In my career we constantly faced problems of how to justify âfishing expeditionsâ when asking questions like âexactly what is this stuff?â Sometime you can ask very simple questions that have very complex and hard (and expensive $ ) to resolve answers. I donât know who PA is or what is going on behind the scenes there but I would suggest you not jump too fast from what they say in âAâ to what sounds logical in answer âBâ.
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not sure we are getting off track just yet but why would they purposely hide the fact that there is any in it at all? would advertising that there is tobacco of some sort in it deter one from using, not sure, just a thoughtâŚ
IMO Because they donât want to find somone else the formula of this flavor.
@50YearsOfCigars I will answer to you later because I try to translate my thoughts to English⌠if I canâŚ
I didnât know for your background in chemistry so in my past answer maybe I gave a simplified answer. Sorry about that. My English is not good so I try to give on point answers with less words. I have found some flavor demos formulas on www.thegoodscentscompany.com like the follow and I believe that the flavors we use, well is not the same, but they have a lot in commone. http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/demos/df1012941.html
I am feeling glad to have the opertunity to speek with a chemist with your backround. Hope you can find some spare time to explain in an other new topic some more complicated chemistry like the chemical bonds and the time will need to acomplish, when we mix two or more flavors for example.
Thank you for the links, are very helpful.
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Iâm gonna agree with @Josephine_van_Rijn and @d_fabes here, hs ry1 is really nice and definitely not overly sweet. Iâve been testing a few mixes with it that are about month old now, and 4-5% seems to be where I like it. Its quite strong initially after mixing and has some unpleasant high notes at 4-5%, but it really smooths out over several weeks into a tasty flavor. I liked it as a SNV at 1%, but after steeping it got lost at that low of a %.
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