# Possible to math your way to a good recipe or is it all touchy artsy?

I never been much of a recipe maker myself, I usually just mix other peoples recipes, maybe do some changes to fit me a bit more. The furthest I’ve gotten are some single flavor recipes. But I’m planning on changing that now. Its just looking at recipes and trying to learn from them are so wild, the percentages just bounce around all crazy. But I figured I try attack this problem with some reason, maybe it doesn’t have to be touchy artsy stuff so to say. But I need some help understanding this.

Lets say I have 3 flavors I want to mix A, B and C. All of these vapes good at 12% single flavor. So to make a mix of all 3, I thought I would mix them all equally at 4%, for a total of 12%. But then you look at similar recipes, and they are all mixed at 8%, making it a total of 24% flavor, which is almost double the original single flavor percentage.

Is there something I’m missing? Is mixing basically about just stuffing so much flavor down a bottle you possible can until it starts to taste like chemicals? If A and B single flavor works great at 12%, you could basically double the flavor by throwing 12% of both down the bottle?

What is the reasoning behind mixing? I feel like there should be some kind of through line to follow when mixing, but cant find any information about that. All I find when I search is people mixing already figured out recipes, not how they got to that point, or the thought process was getting there.

7 Likes

Think of it like a food recipe. You have primary flavours, secondary flavours and nuances. The individual flavours may be really tasty as solo foods, but when you combine them you wouldn’t use them all at full strength.

If you wanted to make a caramel coffee, you would use a different amount of coffee, caramel and milk. Any yet individually they all would probably work at the same strength.

Make sense or did I just go in a circle?

10 Likes

Yea but what I mean is like I don’t see the reasoning behind changing the different amount. For example if im cooking something spicy. I know I need 2 red peppers for it to be perfectly spicy, or 2 green peppers, single flavor so to say. So if I’m going to mix the peppers I know using 1 red and 1 green is going to yield right amount of spiciness. But when comparing e-liquid recipes, its like I could use 1 1/2 red pepper and 1 1/2 green pepper, so 3 peppers in total, and still achieve the same flavor results as I would if I used 2 red or 2 green by themselves, without the meal itself getting to spicy(chemically, mute)

5 Likes

Ahhhh, now here is the rub. Taste is subjective, so what may work for you might not for others. For instance, my taste perception is pretty ordinary and I vape MTL. Lower wattage and poor taste means my flavour levels can be reasonably high per flavour in a mix, or I just can’t taste it.

Also, older recipes were created for atomisers that were not as good as current ones. The equipment even a few years ago did not always allow flavour to work well when combined, but single flavour was ok because it was not competing with other flavours.

Another factor is that recipes are created by individuals for their own style of vaping. It could be high wattage DTL, medium to low wattage MTL or even POD devices they are mixing for.

Fundamentally, my advice is to use recipes on here as a guide and be prepared to play with percentages as you go. Just because a recipe says to use a lot of something doesn’t mean it will suit you, or me, or anyone else apart from the original mixer. I have seen popular recipes that have comments saying someone couldn’t taste it, or that it was muddied due to too much flavour.

10 Likes

Also, as a “for instance”, I vape CAP Vanilla Custard V1 at 10% single flavour, FA Custard Premium at 7% single flavour and TFA Vanilla Custard II at 7% single flavour.

If I do a recipe where I mix them, and I do have a recipe for this, I use CAP VCv1 at 6%, FA CP at 5% and TFA VCII at 4%. Total flavour percentage is 15% which works for my palette.

The flavours interact with each other differently when mixed than they do when vaped alone. Some people increase different aspects to make a certain profile more dominant in the mix.

8 Likes

I love to bake but not cook while my wife is a great cook but not a very good baker.

Cooking is art and baking is science. Creating vape juice is an art. Replicating it is science. I’ve never been good at creating my own recipes and I’m perfectly fine with it. Like others I make adjustments here and there but there are lots of great recipes out there suit me. It all comes down to an individual’s strengths and capabilities.

10 Likes

But if this spicy sauce is to accompany red meat, or white meat, or fish, it will surely “silence” the fish, maybe it is balanced with the white meat and maybe it is soft with the red meat…
Something similar happens when the flavors are combined, some enhance each other, others are silenced, others do not seem compatible. Keep in mind that they are chemicals that when combined, react, creating new chemicals. Food chemistry is a specialized branch of chemistry.

6 Likes

I never thought to mix 3 custards together…I’ve done 2 but 3rd…that opens up a whole another can of worms
Yummy ones.

6 Likes

There are basically two methods to the DIY approach. One is simply copying someone elses recipe just like you have already observed. “Those ingredients look good I think I’ll mix that one!” Someone else has done the legwork already so mix it up. Done and done! Technically they’re still ‘mixers’.

The second method requires individually testing each flavor the mixer will work with, taking notes and becoming more familiar with the nuances and intricacies of their flavors. What works for you and what doesn’t. From there it becomes a matter of what your palette likes and how creative you can be combining the right flavors. It starts with single flavor testing (SFT) and it is most crucial part of the mixing process.
You asked how those recipes got to that point? THAT’S how they got to that point. That’s the thought process that got them there.

There are several topics in the forums on SFT but just be aware that it is a time consuming process that sadly, many users aren’t willing to go through. Have you ever seen the guy that says “I just bought xxx flavor. What I can mix this with?” LOL don’t be that guy!

10 Likes

I find most custard’s aren’t completely all there for my liking. What is missing in one vendors custard is covered in another vendor and so on. My standalone custard contains CAP VC, FA custard., And INW custard.

8 Likes

@Greger, @Ianc13 really made a great point above ^^^^^ Typically you SFT (Single Flavor Test) or use, single flavors much higher as they are the ONLY game in town. Nothing to overshadow, nothing to conflict with, nothing to compete with. BUT, once you add even the SECOND ingredient, things can change.

Once you have multiple flavors, things CAN (not always) get more complicated, BUT, it doesn’t have to be. You’ve received a LOT of good responses here, and I’m not a chef, so I cannot put this in terms of cooking, but to SOME level (not always), you kind of need to at least roughly know the flavors, at least to SOME degree. Some flavors are stronger than others, some will ENHANCE or BOOST other flavors, but many can CONFLICT with other flavors, and that’s where the voodoo magic comes in.

Sometimes you can look at other peoples recipes, but look at them in a different light, like this.

Don’t worry as much about trying to get the WHOLE picture in a snapshot, but look at WHAT flavors are paired, maybe even TRY the recipe, to make sure it’s for YOUR palate/tastes. If it is, look again at what flavors were used, maybe even take notes. What flavors were used to enhance what other flavors. Maybe even pay attention to the ratios of how they are used, like, maybe a Custard is used 2 to 3 times as strong as another cream, and maybe a brown sugar or graham cracker was used low as a supporting flavor as well. LIke this:

Vanilla Custard 6%, Sweet Cream 2%, Graham Cracker 2%, Brown Sugar 1%.

This is JUST an example, but you can see the the Vanilla Custard will be the MAIN NOTE, and the SC and GC will support it, and just a smidge of the Brown Sugar.

Sometimes WHAT flavors you use is important, and then in what RATIO they are used, is just as important.

Learning what flavors BOOST, or CONFLICT with others can take some time to figure out, so peeking at other recipes, you can start to get an idea (to some degree) to see what people are using together.

Obviously not all recipes are good, hehe, and I’ve got plenty of BAD ones to prove it. If you mix, mix SMALL, even 5ml bottles, SAVE the recipe(s), and TAKE NOTES when you test them, as to what WORKS, and what DOESN’T.

If you start off thinking you’ll just “Keep it all in your head, and don’t need to write anything down”, that may not work so well, hehe.

13 Likes

@Greger, @TorturedZen is right. SFT can be a CHORE, believe me. I’ve done a LOT of it. Now look, your and my palates, and tastes may be COMPLETELY different, BUT, if they’re similar, and you are wondering WFT SFT is all about, take a peek.

As always, there is NO REPLACEMENT for YOU doing it, BUT, maybe I, and others, can save you some time, … maybe …

7 Likes

[quote=“Greger, post:3, topic:263722”]
Yea but what I mean is like I don’t see the reasoning behind changing the different amount. For example if im cooking something spicy. I know I need 2 red peppers for it to be perfectly spicy, or 2 green peppers, single flavor so to say.

I totally agree with @Ianc13 .
My wife is Italian. We eat pasta like most people add a potato to a dinner and all our sauce is made from scratch. All red gravey starts with tomatoes and needs to be spiced. Two routes to get the spice into a finished gravy. I can add Italian seasoning to taste or build my own by adding oregano, basil, garlic,red pepper, cardamom, sugar or wine to cut acids, all to taste. By adding different amounts of ingredients to the gravy can change the taste of the tomatoes greatly.

8 Likes

@Greger don’t feel bad, as it’s not always easy.

Here’s one that I’m STILL not happy with, and it’s 24 Down, because I’ve tossed 24 down the drain so far.

9 Likes

@Greger let me just add ONE more IMPORTANT thing. One thing that OFTEN gets overlooked is that sometimes your FAILURES are more important than your successes. I mean, sure, when you get a real winner, it’s great, but often times, they are far, and few between. More often, keeping track of what you DON’T like, or DOESN’T work, can help put you on the path to success faster than you think.

Don’t be afraid to take notes. They’re just for you, and no one else. If you think it, feel it, taste it, write it down.

10 Likes

Like that way of thinking makes sense nice one

5 Likes

I’ll never throw my bad mixes away. I vape it just to punish myself

11 Likes

Hehe, there you go @rcleven !!!

3 Likes

Hate Vaping the new way to get all your anger out lol

7 Likes

Wait a minute, RageVape ??

5 Likes