Quick Discussion About Percentages

Hey Everyone,

I’ve been using ELR for a while now but haven’t ever posted anything. Thank you to the many posts and recipes I have read that have helped me grasp my way around our DIY adventure.

I started my DIY’ing over a year ago. Like most, I read a bunch before beginning. 20% seemed like that great number everyone was using and every mix I did at that percentage turned out muted or just overall bad. I have since learned that going above 5% (with a single flavor and sometimes mixes) with about 80% of the flavors out there is a bad thing. I wish to discuss a few things with other DIY types.

Quick flavor usage background. I started with TFA only and have used about 90% of the flavors listed on their site. Soon after I started using a variety of flavors from Flavorah, Flavor West, Capella, Inawera, Flavor Art, Northwest VG, and Flavor Express,

Since over a year ago, I haven’t bought vendor juices until here recent. I noticed something quite intriguing after having purchased around 5 juices from 5 different companies. All of them seemed to have a much “smoother” hit than any my juices and close to the same flavor intensity (some of mine maybe a bit stronger). I vape at 3mg and 3 of the 5 juices purchase were 6mg and even those where much smoother. All of the juices purchased were 40/60 PG/VG and I usually vape DIY with 30/70. You would figure higher VG would be smoother but in this case, it is not.

So, I tested a mix the other day, no nic for now, just 2 flavor. Both flavors were added at extremely low percentages, 1% for one and .5% for the other, 80/20 VG/PG. The flavors were Rainbow Drops (TFA) as 1% and Marshmallow (CAP) as 0.5%.

As expected, the vape was much much smoother than normal. The flavor though was the surprising part. The flavor is only a little less strong than it normally is. The marshmallow punches your taste buds with the accent of whatever Rainbow Drops tastes like (it’s not skittles really lol). TFA flavors are not known to be potent flavors and I know people also give CAP a hard time. I find that anything above 0.9% with CAP Marshmallow will out power a mix. (Note : I added nic a bit after the initial test. 3mg and it was still smooth, much smoother than normal)

So I guess I have a question within all of this. I will be testing out several of my complex mixes with much lower percentages. I will post one as an example below. My question is, has anyone else came up with this conclusion? Do higher percentages of flavors cause the vape to be less “smooth” and a little bit harsher on the throat and taste buds? Is going even lower percentages something that you guys have decided to do as well?

I’m waiting on more nic to arrive so I can’t test this until later this week. Even if it turns out not as strong, I won’t waste it so need the nic :).

Recipe Example for testing.

Melon Born Candy V2

  • Wild Melon (FLV) - Was 3% now 1.5%
  • Candy Watermelon (FW) - Was 2% now 1%
  • Sweet Watermelon (CAP) - Was 2.5% now 1%
  • Dragonfruit (FW or TFA) - Was 1.5% now 0.5%
  • Marshmallow (CAP) - Was 0.9% now 0.5%
  • Lemon Lime II (TFA) - Was 0.7% now 0.3% (was a little too strong previously)
  • Sweetener (TFA) - Was 0.9% now 1.1%

Everyone knows taste can be subjective but the feel on the throat is something everyone can experience. I’ve seen people at my office vape on 12mg vendor juice without issue and cough up a lung with my DIY juice at 3mg and 10% of flavoring.

my ultimate goal is to produce a juice at the lowest percentage possible with the best taste , to achieve this some people use higher concentrates flaves but i think the most important thing is knowing what goes with what and how to layer the recipe welcome to the forum

Thanks m8, that’s been my goal as well. The taste was fine at the around 10% mark with the recipe above. Now I am focusing more on the “feel” of the vape if that makes since. I want it to be as smooth as these vendor juices I’m trying without sacrificing much or any of the flavor profile.

that one im not sure about havevyou used mts or saline ??? for me i vape at 70 / 30 and certain flave like honeydew will make that throat hit more pronounced but i like a kittle throat hit i think we should xall upon @Pro_Vapes to maybe answer this or @Amy2 i trust and depend on these two whenever i have a question btw try to kill the sucralose that was hard for me to do but i enjoy the vape much more , have you tried pyure as a option to sweeten

I’ve tested both smooth and MTS previously and still use smooth here and there if needed. Heard long ago that saline is pretty much an unnecessary venture but there isn’t any harm in trying. I stopped using MTS after the first 3 months or so and just kept to using smooth. I’ve tested smooth in the above recipe without a change in the result as far as the “harshness”. The thing is that it isn’t really a TH feeling, it’s just more harsh I guess, hard to explain.

I haven’t tried any sweeteners besides EM and Sucrose. Sucrose was hands down more of the sweetener for me and haven’t found a real use for EM. You really think the Sucrose could be it? I didn’t add any to that test mix, I may have to try some VG/PG with just sucrose in it and see what the result is.

Just to note, 2 of the vendor juices I picked up where melon mixes for comparison. Both seem to have Wild Melon in them as well and are also much smoother than my mix previously created.

You could always try a bit of cream…like fresh cream FA at 0.25%. Also try switching your marshmallow to FA or tpa.

As for the fresh cream at 0.25% your not really going to taste it…but it will help with a couple of the sharp notes. Same with marshmallow FA at 0.25%.

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im not sure if the sucralose is it to be honest im just taking a stab at it , for me i know what flavors give me that harshness suchbas tpa honeydew but I LOVE IT. the honeydew that is , try to eliminate one of your wild melon or lime to see if one of those are it it might just be process of elimination

The thing is that it isn’t just this mix that I listed as an example, I just used it for a talking point. All of them turn out that way it seems. My strawberry by Inawera @ 2.5% just by itself produced the same harshness, just tested. Lowering to 1% lowered the flavor (obviously) but the harshness was not as much.

Maybe I’m just a sensitive woos lol.

@Chrispdx. Used to use TPA marshmallow, love it but it takes more than the CAP does so the CAP lasts longer. I tired the CAP Marshmallow with just VG/PG, although at a lower percentage than normal, and it was as smooth as the vendor stuff, so that isn’t it. Haven’t tried FA Marshmallow yet.

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what brand of nic do u use , sorry if i missed that info

i love cap mm but fa is better imo if your using as sweetner

Thanks for the recommend, now I just might just try it anyway lol. I use nude nicotine, the nic was only a month old (120ml of it). Just ran out, I store it in a cool dark closet. I’ve tried my nic about a week or so ago @ 3mg in a 30/70 mix without flavoring and it was smooth. I thought it was going to be the culprit at first.

sorry i reread and noticed its still harh without the nic , im lost on this one for me its typicalky a flave , for example when i use to buy store juice i use to get looper bc bird brains and pebbles by glas just killed my throat and i guess its bc the fruity pebbles flaves are harsher than the fruit loop flaves

Yeah, after speaking with you, I’m thinking it maybe more me than anything. I’m starting to test each flavor at different percentages w/o nic, hate to just be experimenting with them all but never the less, one sure way to find out.

EDIT : Then again, it doesn’t explain why my colleagues at work experience the same effect as well as my wife. My flavor pantry was practically empty a month or so ago, all the flavors I have currently are about that old, all stored in the same place as the nic. Even though they are fresh, that feeling is there.

May or may not be a factor in this, but; Steep time.
How long are you steeping your mixes? Vendor mixes tend to be very well aged, month+ easily between creation and end consumer sale. That age could make a difference, I believe.

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i store all my flaves in a mini fridge , i use to store them in a closet and would lose flavors because it would get pretty hot and humid i couldnt imagine that all your flaves are bad , but maybe ur pg or vg is bad , i know some people have bought the wrong glycerin and this had a bad effect cld it possibly be ur pg or vg ??? test those individually and together with zero flavor

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I have had some vg that I vaped that tore my throat to bits felt like licking a stick of deodorant lol could very well be that also :slight_smile:

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ive been blessed not to get bad vg or pg but man ive had some nasty nicotine

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I appreciate the brainstorm guys, thank you.

After several tests I’ve found the Sucrose to be the culprit. By itself, it isn’t that harsh on me but with even just one flavor that feeling returns.

So… I’m off to find a new sweetener. I can’t stand a mix that isn’t sweet. For example, I really like Gummy Candy by TFA but it has no punch to it. Sucrose made it much much better and I can’t stand the mix without it.

Been vaping with Sucrose for the whole time I’ve been DIY’ing, never even knew just how harsh my vapes were until now.

Thanks again guys!

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sucralose? try pyure instead, in much lower percentages

I use sweetener in very few of my recipes and if any recipe calls for sucralose I sub pyure (aka liquid stevia) at a much lower percent

Looking into pyure now. I like candy vapes and can’t stand it if they aren’t at least almost as sweet as there actually candy counter parts. Skittles without sweetness is not a good vape XD.

Most of the flavors I have do not seem to have a good amount of sweet behind them, for example, Rainbow Line Gum from FW is very good IMO but has no sweetness really to it. Same goes for Wild Melon from FLV but it has more to it that RLG. These are just 2 of many of the flavorings I use. I’d say 80 - 90 percent of them don’t have the sweetness that I am personally trying to achieve and can achieve with Sucrose… but at the cost of vape quality wasn’t my idea.

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