[REQ] A Kiss Goodnight - Kai's Virgin Vapors

I’m in NY, can’t get e-liquid, but I can get flavoring. I really like Kai’s Virgin Vapors “A Kiss Goodnight.” They don’t have it listed anymore due to PMTA. Not sure if they’ll get it back.

The description is as follows: “The sweet romance of chocolate covered strawberries.”

I am not all too familiar with DIY flavors. I usually stick to NET. I’ve read that Kai’s Virgin Vapors either uses Medicine Flower or Nature’s Flavors. I haven’t purchased any flavors yet. I think I would like to stick with those brands. Just not sure which one.


Wow, you can’t go wrong with either of those companies and there is a very large fan base for Medicine Flower. Personally, I don’t have any experience with Nature’s Flavors, but from what I hear they are also quite good. I am sure someone in the know will comment.
With Medicine Flower, they are very concentrated and I will let @fidalgo_vapes explain MF to you. There will be a lot of Fans that will comment I am sure. Anywho, I think MF is ultra concentrate and will be more expensive than every other company but they will last A LOT longer due to the fact that you put drops in as opposed to milliliters.

@Nicotine_River has quite a few on sale

Good Luck


I hope someone can help you, but if not, i wouldn’t go that way (experimenting with MF). The reason is not just price-wise, but also the difficulty of mixing. Personally, i hate mixing with micro amounts where every drop might change the profile and i totally hate long steeping. This means you have a long long way until you could come near to what you wish for.

Another reason is that we finally have pretty good chocolates on the market nowadays (while some years ago Dark Chocolate MF was the only king) and for strawberries you’ll probably be able to find out a solution to come close. Watch Noted on DIYORDIE YT to find out what chocolate & SB flavors might work for you.

This path would be way cheaper, easier and quicker (and you would learn much more); but that’s just me; i hope someone can help you more. Happy mixing!


I am no familiar with Kais Virgin Vapors , I am familiar with MF and personally enjoy them . I do not find them difficult to work with and price upfront may seem like its more money , but common sense will show that they are actually Cheaper in the long run since you arent using as much. MF are Natural Extracts which means the flavor is extracted from Natural Products instead of 1000 different compounds to make an inferior product , MF also doent fade , YES they do take longer to steep but during that steep they will blossom more instead of fade , MF also can be used to boost other flavors which is where I really like to use them Take VSO or FW Blueberry and add MF Blueberry at .2 to .3 pct and you have magic instead of something that is just good enough. As for Chocolates I dont agree, I actually have heard the VT dark is comparable to MF dark so I bought and tested and it is laughable imo I will say the synthetic Concentrates have come along way . Like all other companies MF isn’t perfect their best flavors are the best of the best on the market . Take Strawberry for example the strawberry is very good but it needs to be used a little higher so the Value isnt there like the other flavors but all you need is that one where with synthetics you will need to stack them together to make something comparable oh and btw the synthetics will fade …So imo MF are great , yes there is a learning curve but you have to learn how to use each flavor you buy so no biggie … As far as the liquid line your referring to I have No clue and Natures Flavors is one that i havent dived into . @Plunderdrum uses both NF and MF and would be a great resource Take a look at VSO Flavors @SwaggyShane is the owner he is a DIY mixer as well his flavors are Naturally Extracted he does add PG to them but they are still Naturally Extracted…


I have a shopping cart of Natures Flavors and a shopping cart of Medicine Flower extracts. Medicine Flower is quite a bit more expensive and more limited in flavor options.

I could see Medicine Flower being worthwhile if it tasted that much better and if Nature’s Flavors suffers from fading.

What is the shelf life of these extracts? If they last only a few years i’d probably end up with waste.

Tough choice…


Hi, CAAB. There are a few things to get into here. Bare with me if it drags on… And, forgive me if you know all of this already! Better safe…

My first hope is that if you’re buying directly from Nature’s Flavors, you’ve done some research and know which of their many product types are safe to vape.

Nobody new to them should ever be guided to their front door without a good set of do’s and don’ts. ( @Dan_the_Man, I’m looking at you :kissing_heart: )

Acceptable product lines from NF direct are:
Organic Extracts
Organic Extracts without Diacetyl
Organic Coffee & Tea Flavors
That’s it. Dont try anything else.

To make it easy, and less expensive, head over to diyvaporsupply.com. They have many, many NF there and all of them are safe for our purposes. They’re all from the Organic Extracts line.

NF Extracts are alcohol based real extracts with no PG or VG. The Coffee & Tea line is just the Extract line with a bit of added VG to help coat the coffee beans… Which is 1 part of why it’s presumed that Kai’s uses them along with MF. Part 2 of the presumption is the flavors Kai’s comes up with.
If you study all of the flavors offered by MF and NF, then go read the descriptions of all of Kai’s VV, it is obvious.

Here’s where it gets weird(er)… Last year(?), MF revealed that they have been using PG all along. Sorry, Kai…) But, it’s a special bio-based PG derived from vegetable oil, and my wife doesn’t have any reaction to it like she does with standard PG-based flavors. They have since discontinued the old line and released 3 new lines of flavors. Premium line, most like their old-school formula, uses the vege PG. Silver line is Alcohol based, zero PG and even more concentrated than the original, Gold line is or is going to be Coconut Oil mct based. Never buy the Gold line for standard vaping.

Ok! With that out of the way…

As @fidalgo_vapes wrote, MF are some fantastic flavors. Dont let the price scare you off. Their Dark Chocolate is a must have. At 0.3 to 0.6% needed, it will last. Their Strawberry, as also mentioned, might need 2%. A rarity for MF, but still a fantastic flavor. 2% is actually pretty low compared to some more standard flavors, and you won’t have it fading away…

NF Strawberry is also fantastic. Also less expensive. It goes well 1-3%.

If you’re into the Virgin Vapors for the PG-Free aspect, pick up some Rick’s Sugardaddy Sweetener at diyvaporsupply while you’re there. No PG there, and good at 0.5% if you let it steep.

I haven’t had VV since I started diy in 2017, but they were very tasty. But, we were paying like $17+ for 15ml of liquid! That is what led me to make my own. Very little PG-free liquid available and what was available was crazy expensive.

Not knowing what A Kiss Goodnight tastes like, I can’t tell you which flavors they may have used. But if I were to try it blindly, I’d start like this:

Strawberry MF 1.5%
Strawberry NF 1%
Dark Chocolate MF 0.6%
Sugardaddy Sweetener 0.4%

If you only want 1 Strawberry in there, I’d use NF at 2.5% or the MF at 2%. Combining them, I try not to use them at full potential mix %.

Now, if you are mixing with only flavorings and VG…I add PG to mine… you may need to push the flavors up, but I’d try the above 1st. If it lacks in flavor after 4 weeks you’ll need to nudge the flavors up. Or, down… hard to say unless you try. Sometimes, less flavor % can boost flavor because you’re muting out, sometimes you dont have enough. All part of the fun. I actually hope you like a little PG in your mixes. It makes things much easier. I had no luck trying to help a mixer out recently mixing only VG. We just couldn’t find the right combo. It will take you putting in some trials and time to get it right for you if it doesn’t satisfy right off the batt.

Good luck! Ask me anything and I’ll do my best to answer.

Edit: (I knew I’d miss something). When I mentioned MF %'s up there, i was referring to the original formula! I haven’t tried the new Premium line. Hopefully someone can chime in and say if the Premium Dark Chocolate and Strawberry are similar enough to the old formula for the % to stay the same, and if the flavors are equally awesome.


Thanks for dropping in brother …I had a feeling you would have an answer


Yeah, dude! Any time. Tricky subject to write about, esp on a phone keypad! I started responding and was like, oh, yeah, this is going to get lengthy. Haha! Glad you lit the beacon. Hope you’re doing well!


Hey, I lit the fire that lit the Beacon! Ha. :wink:

Well, I can see that, now. You gave such great advice that I feel justified in only giving the barest of info and I’ll never do that again. I’ll just say " Hey @Plunderdrum, come give some advice eh?". Though, as I said, I did get @fidalgo_vapes vapes involved who also gave such great advice I feel like I should start using MF again.

Peace my Brothers


CAAB, are you really sure it’s one of both companies or is it a rumor/assumption? I‘m asking because everything is all about profit. Imho, most eJuice companies use „cheaper“ and readily available brands such as TFA, CAP, FW. If you want to sell a product for years on end, then you need to assure the supply of ingredients.
I don’t have any experience with MF or NF, but my question would be, if they are 100% naturally extracted flavors, how could you assure that each batch would taste exactly the same? Yes, I‘m thinking of wines or tobaccos, where every vintage tastes different. That’s something that you wouldn’t want for a commercial eJuice line, or so I would think. Help me out here guys;)).


It’s $22.50 for 30ml, before shipping. Compare that to $26.99 for 100ml of Jam Monster
They are using expensive ingredients. I was able to compare a sample of their Plum liquid to MF, and it matched.

NF aren’t all that expensive, either. You can get their Lavendar extract for 13.50/2oz bottle.

MF and NF been at this a long time, before e-liquid existed, and these companies deal with chefs and food/beverage companies. They somehow figured out how to make their extracts taste stable over years of production. Pure wizardry, I think.

@Dan_the_Man all good, bro :slight_smile: just hate to think someone would go in there and click on “Concentrates” because we use that word for everything. They’d be in for a bad time mixing with NF concentrates. Gums and stuff only suitable for drinks and food


All good here to my friend and I wholeheartedly agree. That’s why I took down the link. :v: :vulcan_salute: :call_me_hand:


Thank you @Plunderdrum for the valuable insight! I read a thread on NF you were active in, and was able to steer away from the non-vaping related NF product line. I will probably go with DIYVS for NF extracts.

I am glad to hear that you work with MF and NF. I am interested to hear that you actually use the same flavor in both brands in the same e-liquid. I’ve read of people using more than one brand of a specific flavor to get a more complete flavor profile.

I have a few other recipes I am looking to replicate which will require the following ingredients. I am wondering if you recommend MF over NF for any of these, or using a combination of both:

  • Red Apple

  • Black Cherry

  • Cinnamon

  • Coconut

  • Mint

  • Vanilla

I am also looking for a dark coffee flavor. I was thinking NF Espresso unless you have any other suggestions.

Thank you in advance for your insight.


That’s interesting, the idea of using a sweetener. Do you use that in all your eliquids or just fruity and dessert, or something?


Gotta be brief, hopefully more detail later.

Sweetener is not a necessity, personal choice. I will say the pure extracts don’t have what a lot of lab created flavors do, like vanillin, maltol, or even sucralose. They’re just raw flavors, so some may need some help in the sweet department. No need to start with it, just use if you aren’t getting results as sweet as you’d like.
And use it sparingly!

I’ll get back to you on flavors


Appreciated. No rush. Whatever you have time to help with.


Breaking a rule thumb here. I mixed the recipe I wrote up there this morning, and I’ve been shaking and vaping it all day! Not something usually done with MF recipes. It’s a very good start for a Strawberry/Chocolate recipe. Surprisingly enjoyable for no steep, which should mean good things to come.

As @fidalgo_vapes mentioned, you really dont need to with MF. But, once you start using them separately you might find that one brand is brighter or more zingy, one is darker and sweeter.

I’ve found this and use either one as dominant and sneak the other in to round out, or closer to halvsies to create a whole new vibe. Though it really isn’t necessary, like with some of the common lab flavors, where one may have a gap to be filled by another. These can stand on their own, but you can still mad scientist it up.


Exactly , they dont need help BUT they are great at helping other concentrates if that makes sense


They will take a pretty good recipe of standard flavors over the tops with just a few drops!

Mixing them with other pure extracts, like the single flavor NF’s, is another level of that. Both are complete, but together, is just off the charts.

I just mixed this a minute ago, and the Black Cherry-ness is ridiculous, knuckle test, pre-steeped. Can’t wait for the steep.


Got on a roll, testing my own advice from above.
Here’s one more. Knuckle test tells me it needs some steep to get groovy. The Black Cherry recipe I could enjoy testing tomorrow…
But, my Green Apple MF is a little(2.5yrs+) long in the tooth. Need to re-order.