LMFAO as a steeping method this is now on my list of things to to try
Umm… Isn’t this how everyone steeps their juice? No? Just me?
Its so true though
All these companies try to make you think its somthing magical going into their whole process
But one thing ive learned the best way to keep your recipes unclonable is by simply using “stones”
Stones are a commercial mixers best friend
Eg) strawberry stone @ 3% =
20% ripe (tpa) = .6%
20% sweet (cap)=.6%
10% Fuji (FA)=.3%
20% rasp sweet (Cap)=.6%
30% strawberry (FA)=.9%
Now how would anyone ever nail those numbers down without the recipe in hand. Lol
However i do love clones cause they get the profile and thats whhat matters
I absolutely agree with you there are some manufacturers that use their own custom N.E.T creations but for the most part they all have and use the same flavours we use. A clone is well within everybody’s grasp with enough time, many mixes and good taste buds you can get the right profile the % they use are the hardest bit.
Oh and of course testing the hymen integrity of many walrus
After u mix for enuf time u know all the flavors without a question but the % is kinda a crap shoot
It’s an admirable goal to try and get a dead on clone and I agree that given enough time, effort and walrus inspections, it is attainable. For the sake of my sanity though, I’ve been happy with close enough to the general profile.
Not having tasted the juice it is hard to suggest a crust but you could try a combo of cookie fa, biscuit inw (low% it has great bakery notes) combined with small amount of marzipan and coconut - it will give you a sort of almond meal/coconut biscuit crust
I don’t think that’s necessarily true.
•A lot of people are professional scientists. I’m a few months away from being a bachelor of science (degree in pharmaceutical chemistry).
•We have access to the exact same flavours.
•How many ways can you mix a solution?
•Steeping is steeping, the only variable is time and temperature, keeping them cool and periodically testing mixes will solve that issue.
That’s what I love about mixing e liquid, we have access to exactly the same concentrates, equipment, additives, and procedures. The only difference is the work space, most pros don’t work in their kitchen/bedroom Although workspace doesn’t alter flavour.
I’ve never needed to use my degree for mixing purposes. When analysing flavours it can help to know what’s what, but the nomenclature of flavour compounds is pretty easy to learn, and also not really necessary.
Sorry, I don’t mean to argue or anything. But I strongly disagree with you lol.
Got any suggestions for % of FA cookie?
I got some a long time back, used it once and couldn’t get away from the acetyl pyrazine in it. Since then I’ve not really touched it
I’ll have another bash at a lower % with some other biscuits and let the OP and everyone else know if it’s getting closer to the mark
I would be thinking around 1%- 1.5 on the fa cookie (i would go low) and maybe 0.5 on the inw biscuit
I’m not saying that it’s literally impossible to recreate a commercial e-liquid, just like it’s not impossible for a home cook to recreate a dish made by a cook in a 5-star restaurant. I’m just saying it very improbable to get it exactly the same and the proof is in the amount of good clone recipes that are listed on ELR. Just like the creators probably, I’ve been very disappointed in my months long hunt for a few good clones when I started with DIY. Again, I’m not saying they’re bad recipes, I’m saying they fail in direct comparison to the original.
There are 1000’s of different ingredients and no, not all those ingredients are accessible everywhere around the world. There are not only all these ingredients but also the unlimited amount of different combinations of ratios that these ingredients are used at and then you also have the techniques and equipment used to make the recipes.
I’m not saying that I know it all, I am saying that it’s very NAIVE to think there is just one way of mixing a e-liquid. Flavors are chemicals and each individual chemical interacts in a certain way with another chemical. Nobody needs a PhD in chemistry to know this.
There are differences in the chemical process whether you throw everything in a bottle and let it sit to do its thing, or whether you’re going to follow a certain order, apply heat or other mixing methods to individual components etc. I’m sure not every commercial company works with difficult mixing processes, some do, others don’t. It’s just because of the sheer amount of ways of making a liquid that I say it is nearly impossible to make an exact clone.
This is not just my opinion, there are plenty people in the industry who say the same thing. One thing is the ingredients.
Of course, this “argument” could be over if you redefine the definition of the word clone. To me, a clone is something that looks, smells, tastes, feels the same as the original. If you take it under a microscope it may be different, but the general experience must be indistinguishable from the original. If it’s not, it’s a bad clone or not worthy of being called a clone.
If your definition of a clone recipe is something simply within the same flavor profile, then sure, OK, you’ll find dozens or hundreds of good clones around and I’ll take back every word I said. Otherwise, I think the list of clones on this site, from the 70K or so public recipes can be counted on a hand, maybe 2… because sure, there are some really simple recipes out there that are “perfectly” cloned. The moment you start adding flavors and go from 2 to 3 to 4, it becomes exponentially improbable that you’ll get a real true clone. Again, no chemistry degree needed, just 1st year highschool math.
Yes, you did right here.
I haven’t actually seen you say you know it all. In reality you don’t know nearly as much as you think you do. But you come off to me as arrogant and knowing it all. Now I’ve witnessed you follow a thread and regurgitate what 2-3 others have said on the same thread. That’s not knowledge. That just shows me that you have a decent reading comprehension level and the ability to reword what many have said. But I repeat, you don’t know much.
Why don’t you take a step back, look at some of the responses you are recieving across this board. Reflect on those responses. Settle down a bit. Be quick to listen slow to speak.
I believe it was me that said that about him (holds hand up)…
You do understand @Jake31 that you inhale desserts for a hobby…it’s a grown ups bag of sweets…it’s fun…please don’t try and kill the fun…we need the fun…the fun is…fun.
Chill the fuck out man
i get a lot of friends and acquaintances that ask me to clone something i always tell them that ill get them the same profile even some of the same taste but never identical for one i dont use any sweetener and two its damn near impossible it still sometimes takes multiple versions to get it where i think it should be the good thing is they usually like mine better and they save a ton of money , bad thing is i get stuck trying to nail something i dont make anything new lol , i get what your trying to say about the 1 to 1 cloning i believe there are lots of variables that make it hard to clone something especially when .5pct of a flavor can throw the entire recipe in another direction, nothing is impossible but without wanting to spend a enormous amount of time cloning a recipe isnt probable so just call the clone a Remix and that solves the cloning part
I do agree that it’ll probably never be exactly the same recipe, but a decent enough alternative to fool our fairly limited taste buds is more than doable. There’s more than one way to do things. And that’s where the fun lies imo, trying to get as close as possible with the tools you have.
@Jake31 I will quote myself since you obviously didn’t read it. I get it you don’t believe clones are possible and you know what, you are to a degree correct however writing a post detailing why YOU think it is not possible would be fine if the title of the thread was “Why is making Charlie’s Chalk Dust Mr. Meringue Impossible” I did just check and that isn’t the title of the thread.
The OP was chasing ideas not reasons why it isn’t easily done. Making a clone isn’t about getting it perfect it is more about the journey. Have you never set yourself a goal knowing that there is every chance you will fail in that goal but learn a ton along the way?
If you have a helpful idea feel free to throw it out there it appears that you do not so kindly refrain from posting.
I notice that you post in a lot of threads a little of what you say is correct however most of it is as @TheTinMan1 correctly says you just “regurgitate what 2-3 others have said on the same thread”.
Please try to restrict yourself to posting in threads where you have a valid point to make or are personally knowledgeable about the subject. I suspect that if you did this your posts would drop from 50 to 1 in a very short time.
It will have the added bonus of making everybody’s time here on ELR much more pleasant.
absolutley correct and most the times you achieve a better end product than the vendor juice
FW has a Lemon meringue pie flavor. Maybe worth a shot for the missing link.
Hate to sound like a broken record, but I’ve tried that lol. Again, thanks for the input though, establishing what doesn’t work is just as vital as finding what does work
Just in case anyone was curious about why. A few of the lemon based flavours I’ve tried (FW LMP especially) either have a really odd lemon dish soap taste (Not an actual dish soap flavour, but the lemon flavour that accompanies the soap is what I get) Or they’re too bright, almost too real, and are a lot like lemon juice or lemonade. FA Lemon Sicily is a really sweet lemon syrup/curd type thing, TPA lemon and CAP juicy lemon are both on the sweeter side of lemon too. But a bit more like the straight fruit.
Sorry for hijacking your thread, I just hope some of this discussion is helpful to you