Just a quick one, from my point of view, the flavour percentage it’s not a rule.
A lot depends of what flavor brands you see in a recipe, if you see FLV or super Concentrates, are not easy to adjust, e.g. a strawberry SC at .5 at 1% might (will…) play weird.
If we look at “old” recipes you’ll see that the average goes from 15 to 25%, those are easier to adjust, do I do it? Rarely.
If you use a POD MTL system, you could go as far as 25%, 27%, never mind 20… the final result depends on the atomizer you use, a mesh wick is not the same as a cotton wick or a mesh coil, and might all have a tight MTL draw,
MTL is now a trend we’re going back to, like we were at the beginning.
Personally I’ve always been a middle of the road vaper, a fairly loose MTL (Air wide open on Flavour chasing Genesis mesh wick atomizers) but if I think at recipes, it’s very rare that I use the “Adjust total Flavour %” option, and only if it goes on a POD.
Instead of looking at percentages, I look at the final result. Does it please me? Can I detect the taste? Good to go!
I’m gonna have to agree with @Iv3shf. It really depends on what companies concentrates are in the recipe. I rarely mix recipes from the database. However, I do mix recipes that interest me from the mixers I follow on the recipe side. I never use the a adjust total flavor option either. Usually, it’s only one or two flavors that need to be lowered or raised.
Pods have come a long way. They are no longer crappy flavor machines. Some are good and some not so good. Just like the rest of the industry.
Probably my fault for not wording things the right way. What I meant is more along the lines of I find a lot of later recipes seem more targeted towards DTL vaping rather than MTL vaping with the smaller percentages of individual flavours but multiple flavours the same, ie: “layering”.
To me, this is not as tasty MTL wise as a recipe with a higher total flavour percentage but less flavours. Like 1 custard, 2 strawberries and a biscuit totalling 20% rather than 3 custards, 4 strawberries, cookie, biscuit and additives totalling 15% flavour.
It does, but it really goes back to the ‘personal preference’ thing we see so often repeated here. Everyone has to figure out their place in the DIY community. Even if something works for the vast majority of people (at least according to reviews or notes), it still doesn’t mean it will work for you- or that you are the odd duck if it doesn’t. I look at things less as ‘rules’ and more as ‘guidelines’ in most cases.
Even though in my early days of mixing and making recipes public, there were many of my recipes which carried way more than 3 or 4 flavors in the mix. I learned over time that what you are describing works best for me.
Not to squash the creative juices of the recipe chefs out there… but, I came to the conclusion that, for me in particular (and others, most likely), my little tastebuds couldn’t pick up on the 7 to 9 different flavors I was using in a mix. So, I dropped back to using only 3 or 4 flavors in the mix, totaling between 15 to 20%. I was much happier with the outcome… plus, I didn’t labor so hard over creating recipes.
I wouldn’t. As a new vaper I would have probably enjoyed them a lot, waiting for my senses to recover from smoking. Maybe you could just caveat them as ‘meant for new vapers’ if you feel the need to do anything.
Still can’t see MTL or DTL related to flavour percentage, or recipe outcome, my fault.
Regarding mixing trends, I agree with @Kinnikinnick (no wonder) we still do layering (@Kinnikinnick I even layer two kentuckys) but on average my latest creations uses 4 to 6 flavours (at most) instead of 10, with a percentage that goes from 8 to 15%
In these years vape flavours manufacturer have improved a lot and today you can find a good single Strawberry at 6% and don’t need 2 SBs @8 . I don’t know who nowadays uses 10 flavs in a mix, kiss is always been a must for me, if it’s complicated or lengthy, there’s something wrong that can be simplified, a trinity can always become a couple, too many accents might not even be noted… (absinthe @.35% is not an accent… )
I have a theory, that more flavours you put in a mix, the higher the chance of muting and the chance that some molecules will disapppear after steeping, the infamous battle of the Titans…
E.g. Let’s mix a strawberry biscuit recipe and use Butter Biscuit, Cream, VBIC, strawberry and cream, it’s only 4 flavs,easy does it, or does it?
Now, let’s push the percentages up to 17-20% do you know how much Butyrate we used in those four innocent flavours? A bloody ton of it, What’s the chance that the butyrate will mute the mix or be the star? Let me tell you, very high, rest assured, something will fall short, quite a few molecules want to be the star overpowering the others, even make it rancid or the famous “Can’t taste the Strawberry…(that’s the muting done by Maltol BTW)” and just think if on the top of that you’ve got some accents: a dash of dragonfruit?? Even more butyrate!!
So when testing something will be missing and what’s the chance that some mixer after testing will start adding flavours to cover the MIAs? 3 strawberrys, 2 custards, more biscuit… making it only worst, but making it a public recipe.
A mix has to be fully thought out keeping in mind the final result, 4 flavours can be a mistake, 20% can be a mistake.
From my point of view, there is no right or wrong and (IMHO) there is only one rule in DIY " Brain switched to ON" When creating, when testing, when modifying.
I agree about the muting, have had some high percentage mixes that have been like that. I know Strawberry Ripe TPA does that from experiments.
I may have to try some lower percentages on some mixes and see how I go. I know others have tried some of my lower % mixes and said they were flavourful but to me they were bland. Could it just be my olfactory system that causes this?
Doubt it’s your olfactory, were they using a similar atomizer??
A mesh is extremely different from cotton, different atomizers, different results, why do you think shelf liquids are so loaded with sucralose and high percentages? To cover all ranges possible.
The other things are: airflow, coil surface, heat, generally an MTL atomizer has a small airflow (1,2-1,8mm holes typical) with a contact or small spaced coil around .8-1Ohm with a power range from 12 to 25W and small drip tips,small chamber, a DTL has wide airflows, with dual coils, or big complex single coils, subohm and power from 25W and above with large driptips and large chambers.
Still grenerally speaking, a wide spaced coil has more surface, a dual coil even more,with this setup you need high power, more surface, more power, more liquid being vaped therefore hypothetically more flavour, but a concentrated drip concentrates the vapour, a wide tip draws more air, making it “Fattier”.
Different setups, different outcomes, with MTL you might appreciate some fine tobaccos and nuances, with wide drip tips creams and bakery
It’s one of the things that we DIY for, we tailor our liquids to our setup/personal taste, it’s always a good thing when we publish our recipes, to tell people our setups, it will help them understand better.
My everyday Atomisers are always the same. I use 5 x VandyVape V1 24mm Berserker RTA’s as my rotation. Coils are always SS316L but vary between 26Ga, 28Ga round wire or MTL Clapton. I always use Temperature Control usually on Pico mods with Arctic Fox firmware. Best for me is usually 20 watts and 420°F.
My juice profiles are always dessert or bakery based. No tobacco, fruit only or menthol/cold ones. I use strawberry, trying banana and sometimes lemon in my mixes if appropriate.
If you check out my stash you can see what sort of flavours I use.
If your a custard lover you should try INW’s custard. Not only is it good but it only takes two weeks to steep. Another must-have IMO is FA’s Premium Custard, which they don’t sell in the states. However, you can get it from Chefs Flavours. If you want to get it cheaper, get the Flavour Creative Premium Custard because it is rebottled by Chefs Flavours.
Oh ya, another custard I like a lot is OOO Vanilla Custard Cheesecake. Ya, I’m a custard lover too. I think I need to start picking up some custards I don’t have. Just to explore to see if I can find a gem.
Keep It Simple, Stupid… the principle that less is more. Keeping things as simple as possible to make things as easy as possible. Or from the intertubes:
The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore, simplicity should be a key goal in design, and unnecessary complexity should be avoided.
I like what you’ve said here and it reminded me of a talented artist friend of mine who had either OCD issues or some other type of brain problems. She showed me a beautiful pencil portrait and said she wasn’t done yet. Days later she showed it to me again with all the changes she made to make it perfect. It went from looking like a Da Vinci pencil etching to a smudged mess.
Excuse the long story to make an analogy but Brain On was clearly not in play here. The overdoing it, destroying the genius of simplicity, or just knowing what flavors to use to get to where you’re going is key. This is just my opinion.