and WF in the same sentence does feel a little awkward though
and WF in the same sentence does feel a little awkward though
So you are saying it is bad faith to publicly list what your flavours contain?
Not at all, I encourage it and not all warnings are really reason not to use them.
It’s just the stuff like this that makes me a little uncomfortable (to say the least) to use them. It’s not just one flavor but quite the range.
I’m not going to tell anyone not to use them though, everybody makes their own decisions. But when these flavors enter the commercial juice market, what remains of those warnings?
And if you compare WF to other brands, their list of warnings is just humongous, just an observation.
Only to those who are “hyper cautious” (to be polite/respectful).
The majority of those listings revolve around DAAP, which remains an unconfirmed source of being a threat (meaning no long term scientific data exists to PROVE that there is a reason for concern). In addition to which, tests will have to be done at varying power levels, because it may well be proven (in some cases) that a particular flavor MAY only be a concern above a certain wattage/temp, or when combined with a certain metal (coil type), or even wicking.
There’s simply TOO MUCH info that has yet to be obtained/learned before taking a hard line position IMO.
Somehow I knew you would go straight to Furfuryl… lol
Honestly though, even that one says “MAY cause”. And if I recall reading correctly, those tests were only done on rats. Not people. (And God only knows at what levels, and whether or not they even relate to human results)
Regardless, I strongly agree with you here:
I think this could easily be resolved through proper regulatory rules. But we aren’t even there yet. FFS our govt (USA) is still fighting over how to address vaping as a whole. And we’re quibbling with shit that may not even matter if we can’t get those in politics (and the rest of the country) to understand that vaping is SAFER than smoking?? /smh
One fight at a time man.
As an aside from @Sprkslfly perhaps you should do a little research
From the FAQ page
How can these flavours be used?
Our flavours are multi-purpose, they can be used in candy making, ice cream, desserts, whipped cream, coffee, tea, water, cocktails, soda, DIY liquids and many other applications. As our flavours are PG based, they are not recommended for baking. We do however offer custom flavouring to which we can create our current flavours with any base or create your own unique flavour.
I do not see vaping on that list (WF are FOOD flavouring company) just like many others we use.
WF list the flavours that comply with the TPD which is a lot more than other flavour companies do. Which flavours you use is totally in your hands but you cannot call out a company as having bad faith when they put all the info in plain sight.
Again from the FAQ page
What is TPD-Ready?
While none of our flavours have added diacetyl, our flavours tagged as TPD-Ready also do not have any of the following compounds; acetaldehyde, acetoin, acetyl propionyl, furfural.
So I would consider them transparent in fact they are far more transparent than many other flavour houses.
So you’re saying I should just ignore those warnings? Why would I take something willingly that may cause cancers when other companies do not have this ingredient?
I’m not holier than thou though and I’m sure there are other ingredients, maybe that aren’t even listed by other manufacturers, that could be just as bad or even worse. At the moment, we don’t know, but we can take (personal) decisions about the stuff we do know.
Again, I’m not going to tell anyone not to use these flavors, I’m just making a personal choice to not use them in any of my juices. You go right ahead if you like them Whatever the warnings, I’m still convinced it’s a hell of a lot less damaging than the smoking we all did before.
I have no issues with DAAP, but the other list still is a long one with WF, longer than the total list of warnings for most other companies.
Yes, like I said before, I think it’s wonderful that they list their ingredients and I think every company should be so transparent. It allows me to take an educated decision. I’m not saying I am educated in what those ingredients chemically or biologically speaking do to the human body, but I know which ingredients are doubtful and if I have any concerns, I can avoid them.
So let’s set the record straight. I wasn’t implying that WF is a company that isn’t transparent or acts in bad faith, more that I don’t have much good faith in a company with so many flavors that have red warnings on the flavor pages.
Umm so now you are saying the complete opposite of what you said before
and WF in the same sentence does feel a little awkward though.
I do not care if you do or do not use wonder flavours and I would suspect neither do they.
I only mentioned that it was a low act to scam a company (as you suggested) that is willing to provide their flavours in good faith free of charge and I stand by that statement.
This is my last comment on this.
I didn’t say that at all.
Do as you please.
Actually, you have no idea if they do or not IMO.
As, to my knowledge, only TFA and WF are THIS transparent.
As for your list of links, you could have just as easily made your point by linking them the same way you did the first time. (As it’s still a very valid point to some, and much more respectful to reading the thread).
Before jumping down my throat, I was actually jokingly referring to another post. Whether it was in good taste is debatable, which is why I removed my post. Yet that other post was perfectly OK with you… or you just don’t want to upset your friends?
I know flv is too… they keep their safety sheets online.
the f.slcohol I already explained in another thread… is shared that it is in there… it is to help the flavoring. It is needed to help keep the flavor compounds together, and to help mature the juice you mix with it. Keep the cap on. Seriously, as it is needed to help promote the gases that hold the flavor compounds together.
My brain is like mush today, can’t keep up. (not directing this to you Sparky… but for those that want to know why the f. alcohol is in there and what the use of it is. )
I have a Question ??? Can Fruitful Alcohol make Flavors a but harsh???
Lmao Fruitful damn auto correct thats funny I better leave it
Normal use, no fiddy… but if you use the flavors too high, of course.
Another chemical that is safe in normal usage, but deadly in high amounts, would be water.
Does this thread need to exist?
I always appreciate the transparency.
For me personally, small traces of furfuryl in WF are not a problem, at least until other companies start advertising that there is zero furfuryl/furfural in all their flavors. If no other company openly speaks about ff in their flavors, it doesn’t mean it is not present there.
Actually i believe WF more now because they are not hiding things; even more because sharing the info about ff is not an industry standard. Why would they willingly share these info if those are not in their advantage; or below the average in this industry? Or if there is a minimal risk for their users or bad for reputation of their brand?
What i hate about WF is that they don’t publish the amounts of DAAP (bad, bad, bad for brand building), but on the other hand i certainly like the fact that they are one of very few companies that clearly state they are not using GMO (FA, MF, MB and some small European companies only state this). Thumbs up WF for this.
Flavorah has none, @Mikser… so you can rest assured on that.
I want to say right now, use your head, use research, and enjoy what you purchase.
That is all that is needed, common sense. Failure to use that… and you are what you vape.
No slight against anyone that will not research for themselves… but the info is out there.
Great info @anon84779643. Thx. (although those amount of WF doesn’t bother me for mentioned reason). Is that info available publicly somewhere?
You can look here… the only alcohol they use is ethyl alcohol.
You will find it here