Avoiding diacetyl in DIY

[demonboy]

Newbie here. Just wondering how people feel about diacetyl (and the other nasty ingredients) and how people go about avoiding it. I understand that Capella claims some of its flavourings are diacetyl-free. Is there a guide anywhere on what flavourings to avoid? What do people do about it or does it not concern you?

[Sprkslfly]

It’s more or less a personal choice kind of thing. I think most would agree that even if you choose “not to care” about D/A/AP, that it’s still far less harmful than the over 4000 chemicals that we were ingesting with smoking.

That said, if you decide that you do want to minimize risks, given that’s usually the rationale for quitting smoking to start with… then I can say look for the following:
Capella labeled as v2
The Flavor Apprentice labeled as 'DX’
Flavour Art: any of theirs (as I understand it)

Also, use Bull City Flavors (formerly BCV) as probably the single best site (in ‘warning labeling’) as a cross check device when you’re on other sites and not sure if your choice is ‘safe’ or not.

Expect lots of great replies here! Good luck with whatever you decide!

[demonboy]

Thanks for that, Sprkslfly. That’s a great starting point to work from.

[mikelej14]

the flavor search on elr will also say if the flavor in question has any warnings and also many have the msds available on also.

[BoyHowdy]

@demonboy

Thanks for that, Sprkslfly. That’s a great starting point to work from.

Everyone has a different view but I am not concerned about Diacetyl at all .To be honest sucralose and sugars concern me more but vaping is a harm reduction meaning it is safer than the stinkies.
We have a flavor list that @daath and @JoJo keep up to date with the latest warnings including diacetyl and sugars.
Here is a little more info for you to read but everyone has to decide what is best for them but one thing is for sure diacetyl or no diacetyl, vaping is much safer than smoking.
https://vaporescence.com/pages/popcorn-lung-the-truth-about-diacetyl-and-vaping
Here is the flavor warning list on the forum.

:: Flavor warning list e-Liquid Calculator

More reading about the Diacetyl free flavors

Diketone-free liquids with Butyric Acid may make things more dangerous

According to NudeNicotine and their science dept, it seems that the presence of butyric acid along with small amounts of acetoin, acetyl propionyl or diacetyl may worsen the potential effects of diketones on the body: Flavorings like Sweet Cream contains both butyric acid and acetoin - so for those that worry, that is among those to avoid. Recipes that mix flavorings containing acetoin, acetyl propionyl or diacetyl with butyric acid containing flavorings should probably be avoided… Again: I …

[Sprkslfly]

Great point on the sugar aspect!

also brings to mind some others…
Artificial colorings
Molasses (in some as a Sweetener or coloring)
Essential oils (major no-no!)

Any flavoring you use should be water soluable from everything I’ve read.

[demonboy]

We have a flavor list that @daath and @JoJo keep up to date with the latest warnings including diacetyl and sugars.

So glad I found this forum. That’s a useful list and appreciate the time being spent keeping it up to date.

[BoyHowdy]

There is some great info on here for sure besides just recipes , I find more every day! I also edited my post and added another link that talks about the dangers of the Diacetyl free flavors.

[BoyHowdy]

@Sprkslfly

Any flavoring you use should be water soluable from everything I’ve read.

Another good point and that also is on the flavoring list if it is known.
That is the bigger issue IMO , we don’t know all the ingredients from some of the makers.
IMO FA , Real Flavors and Flavorah are very open about the nasties their flavorings contain other companies not so much.

[anon56603502]

It seems that flavor makers will NEED to remove all those nasties in the near future.

Capella have already rolled out v2’s of most of their affected concentrates.

Just remember that if it isnt oxygen its not good for your lungs but vaping is better than smoking ciggys.

In the time i have been vaping i have not experienced any ill effects in regards to breathing, ive just seen my breathing get better and better, i can actually run now!

[Steampugs]

That’s weird man I was going to post a thread regarding this very issue this morning, I ordered 100ml capella custard V2 last week and they sent V1, I told them and they just sent me another V2 and told me to keep the V1, was wondering whether to use it or not but to be perfectly honest you inhale more dangerous pollutants walking next to a busy road and like has been said already it’s still far safer than smoking which I did for many years, the V1 shall get used

[LordVapor]

I hope you like that V2. I tried it once and it wasn’t for me. Blah!

I personally don’t pay attention to diacetyl warnings. If they stop making VC V1 @Ken_O_Where and I will probably be putting together a desperate operation to round up the rest of the V1 in the Midwest. We need to start monitoring shipments just in case. Diacetyl is great!

[Steampugs]

I know what you are saying, before diacetyl-gate I was on V1 and there is definitely a difference but I got used to it, can’t say I’m sorry to be ‘forced’ to use the V1…maybe just for my personal batch

[LordVapor]

You will find a lot of people here don’t like V2. Some even say it tastes like vomit because of the butyric acid in it. I tend to agree. I can vape it. But I would much rather vape V1 and ignore the warnings as most do.

[JoJo]

A lot of people have a lot of different thoughts about this topic. I don’t know of any flavoring company that adds diacetyl to their flavors anymore. There are a lot of different posts around here where opinions on the matter of all things diketone and chemical abound!

Flavorings you should been aware about

Well not until recently I was unaware of this. Until I placed a order at ECX. I did more research and figured out the flavor I had ordered contain acetoin. I ask ECX on their live chat if they knew anything about it since its not posted on their site. They looked at the MSDS and asked their lab but they said they were not aware. So finally I contacted FW and they sent me this sheet containing all their flavors containing Diacetyl, Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl. Figured i’d post this for anyone wh…

New to Mixing - Flavor Warnings?

Hello ! So I am new mixing; still need to launch the first batch. I am curious about the attached warnings to some flavors about - “Acetoin”. Are these generally totally avoided or just if possible. I am not looking for a guarantee of health and safety but rather an understanding of normal use?

They are a lot of flavor warning out there like Diacetyl and Acetoin. Which are you most concerned about?

Flavor warnings help

Unsafe chemicals in flavorings opinion

Just wonder whats your opinion on this. I like TFA Turkish. But reading their MSDS sheet it sais there it causes cancer which sounds pretty scary. I’ve asked TFA and they told me that it contains the component Dimethyl Sulfide which gives it the ‘suspected of causing cancer’ warning. They also told me the total concentration of this component in the flavor concentrate is less than 0.1%, as it is most likely a byproduct of the other components. In such small amount plus diluted further in juice …

[BoDarc]

The Acetoin “popcorn lung” thing started when employees at the popcorn factory developed lung disease because of their occupational exposure to the pervasive artificial butter (Acetoin) inthe work environment. I think vaping small amounts of acetoin is not the same thing as being attacked by dogs on the way home from Orville Rednbockers because you smell like a huge stick of butter …no where close to the same level of exposure in vaping. I was similarly concerned in the beginning and it’s always better to be safe, but I’ve been abusing Custards and haven’t experienced any short term effects. I also may suffer regrets long-term, so …Vape at your own risk

[Anonymiss]

You can just mail that V1 to me you don’t want it that stuff is terrible for you

[CosmicTruth]

my 2 cents:
I use mostly TFA, I find their flavors more forgiving, but more difficult to research. the FAQ https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/t-faq.aspx has a link to a zip file of all their MSDS sheets for all their flavors https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/msds/SDS_US_Compressed.zip you need to have a copy of that and you also need to know the vendor SDK# for the flavor in question, which is found by clicking your flavor on the spec sheet list also linked on the FAQ at https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx with that number you can then fish through all the PDF’s in the zip file to find that flavors MSDS where you can get the specific gravity and find if the flavor has hazardous components.
simple right?

[SthrnMixer]

Count me among the don’t give a crap crowd. I’ll vape a wool sock if it tastes good.

But seriously, like others have said, each person must choose for themselves. [quote=“BoDarc, post:16, topic:77715”]
I’ve been abusing Custards and haven’t experienced any short term effects
[/quote]

Same here. In fact my breathing is much improved. Is that just the result of stopping smoking? Could be. But I have to wonder how long it’s supposed to take for the deleterious effects of diketone exposure to the lungs? Anyone privy to that information?

[demonboy]

Any video tuts on how to vape a wool sock?