So, I’ve been making 30ml recipes and having decent success. A few of them I’ve decided are worth a big batch to save me the trouble of making lots of small batches. When I make the big batches like 120/240ml the experience is very harsh. I’ve even cut the nic down by 50% (usually I’m at 3mg, so I’ll do 1.5mg), but that doesn’t see to do it. Even in my max VG recipes (85-90%) I get a lot of throat hit and it bothers me. Do these batches take 4-8 times longer to steep and loose the harsh throat hits? Ive got a couple batches that have been steeping for at least a month and it still seems too harsh. All flavorings are same % - Any ideas? Much appreciated. Thanks!
Are you mixing by weight or by measurement?
I only mix the flavors I vape in 120ml batches now and I experience no difference in flavor if made in a 30ml bottle.
What are you using to stir your 120ml batches and how long?
I use a mini paint stirrer off Amazon and do 30 seconds for a 30ml and 1-1 1/2 minutes for a 120ml.
I only vape at 1.5mg and my juices don’t turn out harsh. Certain flavors are harsher than others naturally.
What are the flavor profiles of the juices you are mixing?
Natural steep time should be longer as you have made 4x the amount of liquid. Though I do not steep any of my juices anymore since I vape them so quickly.
What kind of PG and VG are you using?
Measurement - usually syringes, in small batches if it’s 5-10 drops I’ll use the dropper if its got one. I can’t take the dropper off of some like CAP bottles. Some advice around proper measurement or weight might help me.
I’ve tried a few ways to stir. Straw with cut ends to make a propeller for my drill. Bathing in hot water and then vigorously shaking works well usually too.
Flavor profiles are all over the place, even a 13% total flavor at 120ml is harsh, but in 30ml isn’t.
I don’t add PG anymore, just whatever is in the flavoring. I use 100% USP VG (I’ve tried a couple different ones, but its not different).
Also, I shake the crap out of my 48mg NIC for a good minute (it’s 1L of VG nic so it’s not easy)
Yep that’s it. Works wonders man. I used to shake all my bottles vigorously for the same time as above and since I got that stirrer everything blends so much better. Maybe its placebo, but it’s amazing.
Check this thread (how do you mix by weight or by syringes), it is all you will ever want to know about mixing by weight and where to get everything from.
I know that from a 120ml dropper every drop of 100%VG nic is around 0.07-0.08ml. If you are getting a harshness in the 120ml and not in the 30ml, I have only had that happen from the juice not being stirred enough. I had problems with mixing juices when I used to use syringes.
Let me know if you have any questions about what I posted!
For $8.00 try this one. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E39LYO/ref=nav_timeline_asin?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Not the strongest motor but the four attachments really help for larger batches. The plastic stirrer with the curved ends my preferred tool for 120ml batches and the skinny plastic stirrer will even work in small bottles. The end has a slit that when using spread out like two curved legs.
This does come with the milk frothers and four stirrers or frothers. I’ve interchanged these stirrers with several different models from Amazon. Just purchased my fourth one of this style. But in total I’ve purchased six different milk frothers from Amazon.
Even took a set of these stirrers and glued a rod to them so I could attach them to my Rotary tool kit from Amazon.
I must be a serious cheap skate but this home made mixer made with 22,26 guage kanthal works wonders in my drill. gets a real nice froth.
@Ggrhauling what are you using to hold your 8ml wizard labs flavors in? I like. I want.
I also am not a fan of the throat hit, but I personally don’t have any issues at 70/30. Everybody above sounds like they provided solutions, but it needs to maybe make more sense. Measuring by weight might be the best advice, as changing your total volume by a factor of 4X might magnify any inconsistency in measurements by 4X. If you are using the eJuice Me Up calculator be sure to uncheck the boxes under “Flavor Zero PG/VG”.
I heard that you understand you are already getting PG in your flavors, so you just add VG. When I’m mixing 70/30 I add very little PG. Originally I did like you, as I was enjoying some Premium “Max VG” juices and thought I could apply the same principles.
After research I learned that the PG acts as the carrier for the flavors and the VG delivers the vapor. It started to make more sense and my testing agreed. Maybe there are some flavorings that can blend OK at max VG, but probably not many.
Premium Juice manufacturers surely have tricks and secret recipe elements to help prevent these wily DIY folks from cloning …like maybe even a little water in that Max VG so that thick stuff will flow in smaller tank coils …maybe cure the flavors mixed in just the 20% PG and add VG at the end …it’s a mystery …but ask yourself why all the flavor concentrates come to you in PG?
You sound like a smart guy. Chemistry is concentrations and rate reactions …for us measurements, temps, and curing. Take a “harsh” 120ml bottle and split off about 15-20ml in a new bottle as a test. In your juice calculator (uncheck all those “Flavor Zero…” boxes!) and change the “Target” ratio of PG/VG to 30/70 reset your target volume (15ml?) …click calculate. It will likely only be a couple mils of PG …add and shake/cure
Wait a few days (week?) and compare (without making any other changes). If your measuring is not the issue, think of all the molecules doing that mysterious dance we call curing. I can bet you have witnessed clear new batches change color over time. The “carrier” effect of PG likely has several factors but one obvious one might be simple viscosity, but I bet there are others.
Makes sense to me this rate reaction can occur more easily and quickly in a less dense solution. Perhaps a room temp thick 90/10 VG medium could even block curing (?) to a measurable degree. I like the stirring stuff above …which I will be stealing. My next batch will be cappuccino-like at 30,000 RPMs with my Dremel and degassed in the ultrasonic
I truly believe that the problem you are having has to do with the way you are measuring out your flavors. Drops for some, syringes for others. The droppers do come of of the CAP bottles.
As mentioned, I would strongly suggest that you switch to mixing by weight. Your batches will be MUCH more consistent regardless of size. And make sure that they are mixed up well.
You could mix by volumn. However, doing drops from a cap bottle vs tpa vs FA bottle…well you are dispensing different volumes per individual drop and bottle. The bigger the batch the higher variance in volumn added vs what you planned. You could had added too much or too less.
However, if you measure by seringes you should get the same exact result. So asking as you are using them properly.
Mixing by weight is much easier…but it’s not perfect either. I love it for how easy it is and how little cleanup. But come 'on…really…when I add 0.25%-0.15% of flavoring it doesn’t really measure out on the scale. Like when I add cinnamon FA…I just add 3-4 drops to hit my low percent mark (0.05grams). If I were ever to mix a big batch (15ml to 120ml) I know I will be in trouble.
Bigger batches take longer to steep. Tack on at least another week. 3 weeks minimum to allow it to age, some of mine 30 days. Just the way it is. You can buy everything amazon has but it’s not going to help steeping I hate seeing people just throwing money away. Just shake the crap out of it and forget about it.
I have also had the same problem with big batches in the past. I found the reason is because I always underestimated how much mixing the batch actually needed. When making a 30ml batch, my practice was to always whisk it until cloudy for 10 mins with a cappuccino whisker / milk frother. You can buy them online for very cheap. I would do this in a glass beaker that was heated by hot water bath (to make the liquid thinner for mixing).
This always worked great but not for bigger batches. With bigger batches, I slowly came to realise that I had to whisk my juice for 30 mins so everything fully blended together.
Also steeping time is greatly increased so don’t forget your juice won’t smooth out for much longer if it’s the kind that needs time to become the great Vape you’re used to. If you’re confident that you have fully mixed your juice properly, then perhaps start bottling the big batch into smaller bottles so steeping time is reduced to 1 week per bottle.
Steeping should only enhance the flavor profile over time. I have juices a few juices that have been siting for months and the harshness has only toned down. The flavor has almost completely changed though. So I don’t think steeping is going to cure his problem.
I can say that your problem is most likely due to the difference in amount per drops you are doing since they are all different flavor vendors.
This too ^ as I said before, the more time, the better the blend.
We don’t know his exact process, he said he only uses drops on small measurements. Bigger batches I’m sure he doesnt. Something has to be off, a percentage of a flavor. I mean something isn’t right. And yes juices will always get better with steep, if it’s harsh at 2 weeks…hang it up you didn’t do something right. 2 weeks is when a batch starts coming to potential and if mine taste harsh at 2 weeks it goes down the drain and I start over. Get a scale mix by weight and keep practicing, you will find out what youre doing wrong, it’s hard for anybody to say when we’re not looking over your shoulder watching you mix.
In terms of getting your juice properly mixed when it comes to big batches… You might find yourself having a much easier experience with magnetic stirrer device, as cappuccino whisker but feel like a major bore with how long you’re left there manually mixing it all up.
Check out this YouTube video. They can be built very very easily. Something I’ll be doing myself very soon.
DIY Magnetic Stir Box to mix E-Juice
that’s how I mix, I made one from a metal tin a wallet I bought came in. Works perfect. The guy in the vid says custards took 2 weeks to steep now only 2 minutes hahahahahaha. Don’t buy into that bull. It will mix your juices up amazingly well, but make custards steep in minutes…no way haha
Time alone will turn custard flavor into custard juice.
Thanks for all help guys. Mixing by weight would likely cut down on the magnification of error, I think I’ll give it try at some point. I also think I need to mix better. I don’t think I mixed longer/long enough for the larger bottles.
Quick question, does the magnetic stirring method work better than mixers / frothers?
I’m sure it’s just me but seeing the vortex of the magnetic mixing makes me think it’s not oxygenating and fully mixing. I mean they use these things in real chem labs, so my logic is likely flawed.