Choice Tobaccos for NET

[50YearsOfCigars]

@Kinnikinnick

Seems like the NET enthusiasts might be able to hit this thread with their favorite tobaccos with which to make a NET extract!

OK here is my latest discovery: Tabac Manil

Tabac Manil La Brumeuse 3.5oz — At Smokingpipes.com

Use Case: If you are looking for a fast extracting minimally processed or pure leaf that will give you a vape that is as close to Cuban Cigar flavor profiles as you can get. Use as an ADV Cigar Vape or will serve you well as a Blender to add Cigar Flavor to various Hybrids.

Pros and Cons: The Pros are that this is a minimally processed pure leaf with, as a bonus, a fascinating historical background. It is a hand made boutique tobacco that is quite rare, so you get bragging rights that your are not extracting vin ordinare ! There are really no cons. This is a fast extracting tobacco, I used a 12hr Ultra-Sonic Bump Start of 28g/150ml PG and got excellent results immediately. I think a 3 to 6 month extended jar time will just make the extract better and better.

Credits: I want to thank @Kinnikinnick for turning me on to this one. He has a way of unearthing really special finds, and this one is at the top of his achievements.

Here is some fascinating information about this amazing boutique tobacco and a great read if you have a few minutes:

Tobacco That’s So Brooklyn but Made in Belgium (Published 2013)

[Kinnikinnick]

Reporting on:
G.L. Pease ~ Haddo’s Delight

Here’s the vendor/sales write up:

Black Cavendish
Burley
Perique
Virginia
(Aromatic)

“Haddo’s Delight is a stout blend of several Virginia tobaccos with a generous measure of long-cut Perique. Unflavored Green River black Cavendish and a little air-cured white Burley ribbon provide fullness, body, and a bit of extra strength. Finally, an exclusive process darkens and marries the mixture, and gives the blend a subtle tin aroma of cocoa and dried fruit. The flavor is full on the palate, earthy, slightly sweet and intriguingly piquant, with overtones of figs and raisins. A wonderful blend for the Perique lover!”

My take… the above description pretty much says it all. This is a Perique lovers extraction! And IMO, if you like Va/Per blends in the least, you’re going to love this tobacco.

Back in the day, when I was mixing synth concentrates, I found my favorite mixes leaning towards a slightly sweet and hearty tobacco, with a rum and/or fig note. Since there was no concentrate on the market which provided a palitable raisin note, I was always out of luck in that department. Haddo’s Delight ticks all the boxes. As of late, a tobacco blend which carried any flavor other than straight up tobacco, was not held in high regards. This G.L. Pease blend breaks my cycle of Plain Jane tobacco blends. Delish!

As per usual… my maceration technique was a straight PG solvent, heat bumped at 125*F for 8hrs, cool steeped for around 4 months, and filtered down to 2.5 microns.

I don’t see this tobacco disappearing any time soon, but it might be worth throwing a tin on your next order for your cellared stock.

G. L. Pease Haddo’s Delight 2oz | Buy G. L. Pease Pipe Tobacco at Smokingpipes

[Skullblade789]

For Tobacco NET’s I have always gone local to support the businesses around the area. I have the following that I love and hold dear:

Buckies Blend = a very basic, but lush dark earthy pipe blend
Raspberry Dream = It is a raspberry cream that is just to die for right out of the maturation process and a 7 month steep. I added some other flavorings for a pipe mix that does not stay long in my house. I have to hide it from myself, lol.
Rum River = Definitely a Rum pipe and is hitting my sweet spots for tobaccos. Added a Jamaican Rum flavor to give it that smoother Rum taste and it is a dream.
Dark Cherry = This is my go to for pipe blends. I have always enjoyed a bourbon or coffee and a cherry pipe when I was in the Navy. It reminds me of the good/hard times and where I have come from.

With those blends I have added other flavors to tweak the tobaccos. I am currently working on a coffee pipe tobacco and will let you all know the results. The two other unicorns are the Butterscotch and Butter Rum blends currently steeping.

The oddest yet most satisfying blend I have made to date is adding Honeysuckle and Hibiscus to a natural pipe blend. It was unique and quite flavorful.

[Raven-Knightly]

@Kinnikinnick

This is a Perique lovers extraction! And IMO, if you like Va/Per blends in the least, you’re going to love this tobacco.

That might be me ! Not sure, but perhaps the interesting flavor that Stokkebye Luxury Bullseye Flake (No. 403) produces is a result of the Perique-processed content. Not being familiar with these kinds of things, the fact that “Cavendish” and “Perique” appear to be particular processes (rather than being about specific tobacco “strains” themselves) makes trying to analyze (by other than taste tasting) hard. Surely, my Virginia blends (Windsail Regular and C&D Red Virginia Ribbon) do benefit from a bit of the Stokkebye Luxury Bullseye (at between 25% and 33% of the latter relative to the Virginia extracts).

Later in my vaping day, perhaps due to being pummeled with the PG that compromises nearly all of the inhaled vapor content (if/when coil-temps are below the boiling-points of Nicotine and VG), my chemo-receptors can feel “dry and dulled” (to most flavors). Popping just a drop or two of PS Lux BE extract into the atomizers surely spices things up. I probably need a “morning” as well as a “night” flavor mix.

[Raven-Knightly]

The forum net-nanny-bot has (since I last posted) taken to rejecting edited posts intended to correct typographical errors, declaring: “Body is too similar to what you recently posted”. This seems “nutty”.

[woftam]

It is a software glitch not much we can do about it until it is fixed and updated - there is a thread about it

“Body is too similar to what you recently posted” error when editing post

Seems to be not working so those of us that need to edit stupid posts can’t.

[Raven-Knightly]

Just made a successful (minor) post edit - and it went through and posted OK ! Good news, it seems ?

[Raven-Knightly]

@Kinnikinnick

Reporting on: G.L. Pease ~ Haddo’s Delight
As per usual… my maceration technique was a straight PG solvent, heat bumped at 125*F for 8hrs, cool steeped for around 4 months, and filtered down to 2.5 microns.

I get the feeling that while something around 30 days time of cool-steeping (following your ~8 Hour warming-phase performed) is a minimum, that (even significantly) longer cool-steeping times is not a negative ? Having some stock to vape now, I may try extending the cool-steeping time of ~200 ml of in-process C&D Red Virginia Ribbon (where I’m trying out a 67% PG, 33% VG solvent), out of curiosity. Perhaps more complex flavored and/or pressed tobacco blends might warrant the longest times ?

[Kinnikinnick]

@Raven-Knightly

longer cool-steeping times is not a negative ?

Not at all. I see it as just giving the tobacco flavors longer to leach out of the leaf into your solvent. Once you start building up a stock of extract, it’s easier to let the newer macerations just sit for months on end.

[Raven-Knightly]

@Kinnikinnick

… let the newer macerations just sit for months on end.

Good to know your experiences/impressions regarding that. It makes sense, in terms of extraction.

Am looking into one potential issue surrounding that (not a simple picture). It looks like there may be specific reasons to reduce final filtering pore-size to no more than 2 Microns (with no leakage). The issue cannot be disposed of by exposure to (even very) low temperatures, or by high temperature exposure at temperatures that are less than ~70 *C (158 *F), either. This is problematic, because:

@50YearsOfCigars

… flavonoids are very delicate and heat sensitive molecules, You can destroy their structure with heat. Stay in a uniform bath type heat conduction environment not to exceed 145F and better yet at 125-135. … all these compounds are subject to auto-oxidative reactions which cause degradation, in response to heat, which is both an accelerant and an initiator in these destructive reactions.

Time-frames involved are not lengthy (compared to a 30-day process). Problem increases over time, and is ubiquitous environmentally. (Finalized) extract storage at lower temperatures might be indicated. Will research what I can carefully, and try to consult those who know more than I do about the subject.

[50YearsOfCigars]

As far as high temps at extended initial heat bumps, I tried a few of those experiments myself. Here I can say that high heat for extended times is a disaster to a NET extraction. I keep extensive lab notes. Here is a cut and paste of some of my notes related to this:

You can see from the above that all kinds of experiments can be performed. You will gain a lot of valuable information from this. Keep accurate notes.

OK Have Fun ! -

[Kinnikinnick]

So, @50YearsOfCigars… What do you think went wrong with your extraction on G&H Black Twist Sliced?

For me, this is one of those tobaccos which only cool steeped for 30 days after a heat assist start @ +/-125* F… it resulted in a quite palitable extract. I had a feeling, seeing as how the tobacco was super dark and fragrant prior to maceration, that it wasn’t going to take long for it to come to fruition in the steep jar; just a hunch.

Perhaps it is one of those tobaccos which doesn’t benefit from a super long steep time. And just might be one which doesn’t need a heat assist start at all… rather, just stick it in a jar to cool steep with a shake every now and then?

[50YearsOfCigars]

@Kinnikinnick

What do you think went wrong with your extraction on G&H Black Twist Sliced?

Well I think it was the 8hrs at 130F that killed it !

The reason I say is that both you and I extracted it “normally” and got a good vabable result. Follows here is my tasting notes from your sample, and these match my notes from my 'regular extraction. So there was something in that blend that reacted with the long heat cycle and caused some component of the mixture to completly take over and dominate the extract in a very bad way.

This points to the fact that all blends will react differently to excessive heat cycle, and we should probably be very careful to make a blanket statement that “all excessive heat cycle processes are always BAD”… there will always be an exception to any rule - some tobacco samples might do quite well with that technique, but it is worth noting that I have not found that “exception”, so in the face of that experiece, I will call it a rule.

If you extract it “normally” you get this 4 out of 5 star rating:

[Kinnikinnick]

@50YearsOfCigars

a blanket statement that “all excessive heat cycle processes are always BAD”… there will always be an exception to any rule -

I would say that should stand as a “rule”… and I HATE RULES!

This issue got me to thinking today, as I’m in the midst of a maceration:

Seattle Pipe Club ~ Potlatch

http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/9706/seattle-pipe-club-potlatch

This blend has a smattering of Cyprian Latakia thrown in to the mix. I’ve found out over time pretty much any Latakia can overpower the other leaf in a big hurry. In giving this blend a whiff in the can, my gut tells me to reduce my heat assist start time by 1/2, lest it yield an extract which is overwhelming in the Latakia department. Thus, this maceration will heat for 4hrs @ 125*F, cool steep for 30 days, and be tested at that time for punchiness. Hopefully, my gut is right.

P.S. ~ I’m not a fan of the Suttlif Tobacco Co., since I’ve had a few complete NET failures using their tobacco… but, I’m going off the words and reviews of others relating to this blend… perhaps, I won’t be disappointed in the end. We shall see.

[Raven-Knightly]

@50YearsOfCigars

I think it was the 8hrs at 130F that killed it !

50YOC: I take it that you meant “150 F for 6 hrs” or “153 F for 24 hrs” as your graphic shows here ?

[50YearsOfCigars]

@Raven-Knightly

50YOC: I take it that you meant “150 F for 6 hrs” or “153 F for 24 hrs” as your graphic shows here ?

There are 3 different SEPARATE Batchs described, but Yes, I typo’ed one of them but then corrected it. I had 150F on the brain, sorry. correctly noted is however, one at 153F and one at 150F. -But, at the time I did that extract I was using a continuous temp controlled water bath, so the insides of the jar (and therefore the extract sample) was held to 130F continuous for all those 8 hours ! - I no longer use that technique. Now I use an ultra-sonic machine and cycle heating / cooling stages over time. This brings the extract sample in question to a normalized reading not over 110F. -So the point is that I have backed way off from higher temp continuous immersion, and now am quite suspicious of that technique. Like @Kinnikinnick says, it is all experience based.

[Raven-Knightly]

@50YearsOfCigars

… the insides of the jar (and therefore the extract sample) was held to 130F continuous for all those 8 hours

Yikes, that is a “sobering” (so to speak) observation (understanding that various blends may possibly differ). Nevertheless, there (likely?) remain some common (to most all tobaccos) molecular entities - and it might seem that - given that the much longer time period (in cold-maceration) given for solvent(s) to do it’s/their thing, perhaps erring on the side of caution (temperature-wise) may indeed be prudent ?

I have run 1/2 Oz of PS Luxury Bullseye Flake through the ~8 Hour at 117-137 *F warming phase already (along with my other tobacco stocks). Perhaps I’ll try running the remaining 1/2 Oz of that blend with a cold (room temps) maceration process only, in order to provide a means for taste-comparison.

.

Perhaps neither here/there. Have noticed (when gently stirring) a certain tactile sense of “crispness” (a seeming semi-hardening of sorts) of the leaf-bits that I have warmed, not long after the brew reaches temps in the range of 117-137 *F. That “hardness” seems to decrease over the 8-hour warming times. (Perhaps) leaf-bits initially take-up warm PG (or PG/VG) solvent into their structures, initially expanding from inside, but those structures slowly become more porous, thus relieving such internal pressures.

[Kinnikinnick]

@Raven-Knightly

Perhaps I’ll try running the remaining 1/2 Oz of that blend with a cold (room temps) maceration process only, in order to provide a means for taste-comparison.

Give it a shot! Many folks just cover the tobacco with their solvent and stick it in the steep closet. This could very well be the method that’s right for you? You never know til you try it.

[Raven-Knightly]

Yes, I will use the same tobacco-prepping process and 100 ml of PG (only), and possibly give it longer to “macerate” at room temperatures than the ~4 weeks of the initial PS Lux BE run. This will likely lead me towards temptations to grab and shake-up the (already compressed, thus a bit chunky/stringy) leaf-bits more frequently (and consider changing my handle to “Raven Daly & Knightly” … ). Seems like if it’s useful to ultrasonically vibrate these “brews” then my little old arms can’t do much if any damage ?

[50YearsOfCigars]

@ChemicalBurnVictim

I think the quality of that Solani NET says more about the tobacco than my technique The tin note on that stuff is lovely.

This brings up an interesting question about some of these “tinned” tobaccos. I recently ordered this exact tobacco, the Solani, and I will clip here some comments from a PM that went back and forth from my mentor @Kinnikinnick about this subject.

I post this here to help tp perk up the ears of all NETers out there, that sometimes things are not what they seem at first

Filtering my Solani Aged Burley over the next couple of days

I just received my tin from Cup O Joes but this labeling doesn’t sound like what I thought I read on the reviews ? I don’t remember anyone mentioning these licorice and chocolate toppings ? - Did I get the right stuff ?

The review at tobacco reviews states " A very natural blend with absolutely no additives or flavors - a true burley blend."

I guess I am a little confused. ???

Kinnikinnick

1d

Hummm… guess I should have read a little further down the page where this appears:

At first: This flake ISN’T unflavoured NOR UNSUGARED! - K&K states on their website “Chocolate Flavouring”, and only mentions White Burley as ingridient.

And the official additive list reveals it has ~5mg of flavouring and ~168mg of added sugar on 1000mg of tobacco: https://service.bmel.de/tabakerzeugnisse/index2.php?detail_id=104712&site_key=153&stichw_suche=solani&zeilenzahl_zaehler=14 I just hate this kind of false advertisment (usually known from K&K…) “oh, a oh so natural blend, no sugar added.” . . . 168mg of sugar added… as well as PG!

It would be nice if the vendors of tobaccos had their facts straight and didn’t just copy and paste descriptions which are incorrect or out and out lies.