Yes, I’m afraid they may just be laying a blue print for future college courses.
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The big-time brainwashing that they are evidently likely to be in for is the (false as well as utterly unscientific) premise that Moral Crusades could or should don Medical Masks utilizing (faux) physiology, toxicology, and psychiatry to coercively supervise/control the personal choices and behaviors of competent adults in the service of a corporate-controlled State - one which literally and corruptly owns legislators and policy makers.
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I fear we’re halfway there already.
Do you get the annoying side notes stating that you’ve replied too many times to one person? Can I stop them?
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I understand what you’re saying. I just think it’s worth noting that I and many others have been enjoying better health since we started vaping. Absence of smoke and tar, et al. are the obvious reasons and maybe 5-6 years isn’t significant enough to assess the effects of inhaling heated pg, vg and flavor concentrates but so far my doctor is happy and she stopped pushing patch prescriptions…finally! But you and everyone here knows that. Big T and big P could give a rat’s ass about our health. They don’t want to see our health, they want to see our bank accounts. And the politicians in their pockets want to get re-elected. Seeing that Altria had a (what was it 30-35%?) stake in Juul and now one of their CEOs is placed on the throne, they’re positioned to run the show as they see fit. Meh, I’m just disgusted.
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Hear hear! I have a friend who read through some of the studies and pointed out flaws in their methods to those of us who know little to nothing about the methodology.
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Idk, I find it hard to believe that underpaid researchers would easily turn down that kind of money. Could it be more plausible that they’re being influenced by something other than morality? What do you think? Our current administration has thrown our scientists to the curb. Many are looking abroad for work. It’s tough times for our researchers.
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I saw a video on reg watch just today speaking about flawed methods of testing vapour on rats the guts of it was that since rats cannot inhale they fill the in closure with vapour. This has the effect of making every breath the rat takes being a vape hit plus the rats lick their fur and the surfaces of the enclosure meaning that the exposure to one year of vapour was somehow calculated to approximately 400 years of vaping (I have now idea how that was calculated). The rats apparently developed tumours. As an aside a rats lungs react very differently to human lungs.
If i can find the video I will link it but i cannot put my finger on it right now
Found it 
(it was in relation to Nicotine)
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I’ve seen numerous articles on University professors who will not touch it because the universities have already taken a stance and to find counter results would be political suicide.
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Uni of Chapel Hill tho, check into that… they do have a dept for tobacco and vaping research.
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That’s cool, but my point is the outlook for assistance from academia is bleak. I don’t need verification. I’m amazed the industry is doing as well as it is regarding getting truth aired. ELR is a group of about 100 active folks. The average vapor is clueless. A woman came into the store and told me vaping is bad. Then she told me she vapes. But she vapes menthol, $1.99 menthol. That’s legal and good. Flavors are bad and kill people. Realizing I was talking to a pet rock, I showed her some carpet samples and scheduled her a measure. She left. I was dumbfounded.
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It might be cool, my point is there are some places that are studying, have studied…
same flip coin tho… is look to see who is funding these researches as well as how they are conducted. I know a few there that do the research, some is very interesting, others, again are like really?
Yes… elr is a very small place, in fact, according to a few manufactures I know, diy is only 10% of our so called industry. Think on this… again… for every b&m that is shut down, how many juice manufactures are hurt? and what happens to those flavor manufactures, when the big buyers can’t sell? What is going to happen to us all?
I can not think sad thoughts today, I have a lot on my own plate, but if I can help others to see the light of day, I will, or do my best to try to make that happen. You can only feed the hungry, @SmilingOgre 
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The tragedy is how only a privileged and empowered elite (and not the general public) is served by (any) obfuscations of physiological and clinical realities. There likely do some exist genuine concerns that people rightly could and should know about - but instead, people are left only to and with their own anecdotes and confirmation-biases. Intellectual darkness, and the breach, lack, and loss of societal trust lead to various superstitions, suffering, harms. None of this is as it (should) be. People need, and deserve, to be informed.
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The principle moral decision for the physician who does not work in an ideal private-practice situation is choosing what organization or institution he shall work for; more than anything else, that will determine the sort of moral agent he can be to his patient and others. It follows from this that we should pay more attention than has been our habit to the ways institutions and organizations - whether the CIA or the United Nations or any other prestigious and powerful group - use medical knowledge and skills.
In general, we should regard the medical man, whether as investigator or practitioner, as the agent of the party that pays him and thus controls him; whether he helps or harms the so-called patient thus depends not so much on whether he is a good or bad man as on whether the function of the institution whose agent he is, is to help or harm the so-called patient.
Insofar as the biologist or physician chooses to act as a scientist, he has an unqualified obligation to tell the truth; he cannot compromise that obligation without disqualifying himself as a scientist. In actual practice, only certain kinds of situations permit the medical man to fulfill such an unqualified obligation to truth telling.
Insofar as the biologist or physician chooses to act as a social engineer, he is an agent of the particular moral and political values he espouses and tries to realize or of those his employer espouses and tries to realize.
The biologist’s or physician’s claim that he represents disinterested abstract values - such as mankind, health, treatment - should be disallowed; and his efforts to balance, and his claim to represent, multiple conflicting interests … should be exposed for what they conceal, perhaps his secret loyalty to one of the conflicting parties or his cynical rejection of the interests of both parties in favor of his own self-aggrandizement.
If we value personal freedom and dignity, we should, in confronting the moral dilemmas of biology, genetics, and medicine, insist that the expert’s allegiance to the agents and values he serves be made explicit and that the power inherent in his specialized knowledge and skill not be accepted as justification for his exercising specific controls over those lacking such knowledge and skill.
Thomas Szasz, “The Theolgogy of Medicine: The Political-Philosophical Foundations of Medical Ethics”
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Ugh, thx Woftam but Idk if I can handle a video about rat experiments, animal exploitation in general. How completely moronic these tests are anyway. I have a cat and recently learned that PG causes serious health risks if ingested. It used to be included in canned foods. On the other hand, PG is in many of our food products and so far has been deemed safe for humans. That’s the thorn in my butt. If we already know that animals aren’t a reliable reference point why torture them?
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Ok, Word of warning. This must be watched with vaping in mind. Please disregard the political bias. This is being posted only per it’s relevance to vaping.
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They’re trying to bury it so deep that the Lagina brothers find it on Oak Island.
Another shame is this is only brightly lit because we members of the vaping community are the ones affected most (and anyone trying to quit smoking). Sadly, the government has played this song in the jukebox many times by now.
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Where can I donate lmao
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A Reddit ecigs group has a thread where people are posting material obtained through the Freedom of information act (FOIA). They are showing media and government official communicating ideas on how to make vaping look as bad as possible. One example below. Please note that I do not know who the people listed in that link are. They may not be press/media/government officials.
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Jim, researched it with my friend Google. Depressing BS, but (IMO), not much “indictable there” there.
Public and Law Enfarcement Officers are under no obligation to be truthful with the public - except in under-oath testimony (in court/deposition proceedings). Even then, if they can wangle an “acted in good faith” determination from a protective and biased court system, they are quite literally, “off the hook”. No wonder few trust their words/actions.
Jennifer Macfarlane does not appear (around the time of the email) to have had any specific role in government (The Montana Gallatin City-County Health Department) whatsoever. She appears to simply be a “concerned citizen”, etc. The communications posted on that Reddit thread from her are to a private publicity agency (Media Works LLC, based in Bozeman, Montana). It is unclear (and the most interesting, although likely trivial detail) that Macfarlane was assigned a local governmental email address with which to launch and receive correspondence. She appears to have been (or remains) an unpaid volunteer “concerned citizen” (private party, not governmental staff of board member).
Gallatin City-County Health Department paid staff communicating with Macfarlane were Karl Vanderwood (Program Manager, Chronic Disease Prevention Program) and Matt Kelly (Health Officer). Their contact information is here. At the Board’s June 28, 2018 meeting (around the time of the emails), Matt Kelley delivered a presentation (“Matt reported the public push to work on tobacco cessation activities in the community and distributed binders to the board containing the best tobacco literature as we head into the fall.”). My browser codec is not able to listen to the linked-to audio recording of his statements - perhaps somebody with a less ancient browser can give it a listen.
One (bureacratically notable) character is Ellen Leahy, Missoula Health Department Director, whose written communication (to Karl Vanderwood) appears in the left-most scanned document here. The subject is a physical distance “set-back” for smoking (and, thanks to her, vaping), apparently prohibiting both with some distance of local retail business entrances. She considers vaping “dangerous”, but she (otherwise, per documents) does not appear involved in said anti-vaping “propaganda”, etc. of interest. The general web-page for the Department is here.
An April 2016 news article seems to indicate that Macfarlane (at that time) represented herself (to a reporter) as “Jennifer MacFarlane with the Gallatin City-County Health Department”. It is possible that she at one time in the past was in some way (meaningfully, as opposed to tangentially) associated with the local governmental agency. One could go back in time with the agency’s records (board meetings) to investigate.
Searching the Missoula County web-site, no record of publication of the propaganda of concern exists:
https://www.missoulacounty.us/i-want-to/advanced-components/misc-pages/search?
(IMO), this appears to not really lead anywhere (as in “scandalous” in a meaningful sense publicity-wise).
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Wow! @Raven-Knightly you are one seriously capable, committed, and focused lady. Not that I ever had any doubt
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Jim, very kind of you, my friend. No biggie, but I was a male human, at least the last time that I checked. 
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