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Flavor BAN!

Oh i could go one about this but here is some light reading (it doesnt cover all the nanny laws we have surrounding vape/tobacco/gun/alcohol and just about anything else in life.



I can virtually assure that this may qualify in the “Untidy Snakes” these dark days as, “too long, don’t read”:

The struggle between Liberty and Authority is the most conspicuous feature in the portions of history with which we are earliest familiar, particularly in that of Greece, Rome, and England. But in old times this contest was between subjects, or some classes of subjects, and the Government. By liberty, was meant protection against the tyranny of the political rulers. The rulers were conceived (except in some of the popular governments of Greece) as in a necessarily antagonistic position to the people whom they ruled. They consisted of a governing One, or a governing tribe or caste, who derived their authority from inheritance or conquest, who, at all events, did not hold it at the pleasure of the governed, and whose supremacy men did not venture, perhaps did not desire, to contest, whatever precautions might be taken against its oppressive exercise. Their power was regarded as necessary, but also as highly dangerous; as a weapon which they would attempt to use against their subjects, no less than against external enemies. To prevent the weaker members of the community from being preyed upon by innumerable vultures, it was needful that there should be an animal of prey stronger than the rest, commissioned to keep them down. But as the king of the vultures would be no less bent upon preying on the flock than any of the minor harpies, it was indispensable to be in a perpetual attitude of defence against his beak and claws. The aim, therefore, of patriots was to set limits to the power which the ruler should be suffered to exercise over the community; and this limitation was what they meant by liberty.
-John Stuart Mill, “On Liberty”


Yes indeed. Nails it good: This is the pattern of all bossy bureaucracy. It starts off as a benign thought bubble and ends up being enforced by the heavy hand of the law. Meanwhile real crime gets a free pass, since cops are too busy enforcing silly rules on law-abiding people.


Ya they are all a bunch of donkey and elephants …


45 gets the ball rolling and walks it back to avoid losing voters but the circus show is rolling ahead in full force. Alex Azar already has his orders and I expect him to move forward.


Meanwhile, Patriotic Scoundrel Elmer Fudd readies his double-barreled Phlegm Thrower for the “Libtards”:


Guess it is time to stop voting for the fat asses


Nah Jeff Sessions is going to testify in the impeachment inquiry hearing/what-ya-ma-call it; he prolly needs witness protection though.


Looks like it’s about time to invite the new Daddy Drumpf to step in and start cleaning up Junior’s little mess:



1 Like

Does anyone proposing these laws and rules have a clue?

Fog Machines use VG and PG as bases, and expose HUGH numbers of people to the Vape Fog at Halloween partys and Haunted houses.

So are they going to BAN Halloween next? Cause That’s some serious second hand vaping. :weary:

BTW look at the nasty growth in the bottle at 1 minutes in. Yea That’s what they can be pumping out at y0ur next Halloween Party.


As long as one buys only Trump Brand PG and VG, “Rocko and the Boys” will (probably) leave them alone ? It may be the case that the only “crystal clean” cigarette brand is Trump Tobacco “Elegant Genocide” line.


Seriously, however: Have read some (seemingly) legitimate accounts of PG (from frequent exposure to such “fog machines”) indeed messing up (some) worker’s lungs. Glycerol (VG) would be even worse (as it forms more Formaldehyde, and even the infamous Acrolein, at around 270 *C and higher temperatures).


Saint Beauregard:

… depends exclusively on Trump Brand Bulletproof Memo Paper:

… and quick exits into the Holy Luddite Gollum Protection Network Nuclear Hardened Bozo Bus:

… to revive his precious bodily fluids for the soon to come Beltway Armageddon and Trumpian Apocalypse:


(At least), one rare voice of reason (Michael Siegel) was given a “hearing” (in the main article linked-to):

In embracing more restrictions on e-cigarettes, however, lawmakers are prompting some criticism that the flavor crackdown will exacerbate the future problems they’ve identified - and potentially worsen the outbreak of lung disease associated with vaping. Michael Siegel, a public health professor at Boston University, predicted two outcomes as a result of the flavor ban. “No. 1, they are going to go to the black market to be able to continue vaping what they’re used to vaping,” he said. “No. 2, they are just going to give up and go back to smoking.” … He urged lawmakers to consider a way to keep more e-cigarettes on the market but have “meaningful regulation in terms of quality-control procedures and ingredient disclosures that companies have to follow.” … By acting to limit vaping devices more broadly, proponents of restrictions argue that it would help people avoid exposure to the substances that are causing the illnesses. Siegel argued that the opposite would be true and predicted that the flavor ban could send teens the message that nicotine vaping should be avoided rather than marijuana vaping. “This may actually accelerate rather than stem the outbreak because it will result in fewer youth actually discontinuing their use of marijuana vape products,” he said.

Readers are encouraged to actively follow and to read Dr Michael Siegel’s excellent ongoing blog:


… where his (in these matters directly relevant and interesting) posts began on August 25, 2019:



While all eyes are on the White House this week, we are reminding members that several bills in Congress could do more harm to consumers and be enacted faster than FDA can take enforcement action against the vapor industry.

In July, a US District Court judge, Paul Grimm, produced a remedy order that requires the FDA to enforce the premarket tobacco application (PMTA) requirement starting in May of 2020. This effectively moves up this particular compliance deadline by more than a year. While a small handful of companies might be in a position to attempt compliance with this new deadline, the rest of the vapor industry is not.

Take Action - Send a Message!

Strict enforcement of this deadline will force most US manufacturers to shut down. Even though the FDA will retain enforcement discretion with regard to certain compliance deadlines on a case-by-case basis, it is not clear how (or even if) the agency will apply it. In other words, there is no guarantee that companies will be allowed to keep their products on the market .

At the same time, several bills are active in Congress that would undermine FDA’s authority over new tobacco products. These bills propose to raise taxes, ban flavors, limit online sales, and one bill even goes as far as requiring vapor products to be approved for market only as medical drugs/devices.

CASAA is asking our members to take action by sending a message to your federal lawmakers urging them to reject this legislation and prevent a massive underground market from taking the place of our current legal, regulated marketplace. We will start delivering your messages one week from now to coincide with a lobby day organized by the Vapor Technology Association.

Take Action - Send a Message!

The long version:

By way of background, In July, Judge Paul Grimm, US District Court District of Maryland, ruled that the FDA has until May 2020 to enforce the premarket tobacco application (PMTA) requirement for new tobacco and vapor products.

The initial compliance deadline for PMTA was August 8, 2018. But in July 2017, the FDA delayed the PMTA deadline to 2022–for non-combustible products–citing a need to give vapor manufacturers more time to prepare and submit meaningful applications that would be more likely to be accepted by the agency.

Within a year, the FDA changed course after reviewing national survey data showing a sharp uptick in youth use of vapor products. The updated guidance would require applications to market vapor products in flavors other than tobacco to be submitted and accepted by the FDA by August of 2021. Although never finalized, the draft guidance would have also limited sales of flavored vapor products to adult-only specialty vapor/tobacco stores.

In 2018, the American Academy of Pediatricians (AAP) sued the FDA with the goal of reinstating the original August 8, 2018 PMTA compliance deadline. Following an exchange of proposed remedy briefs by both parties, Judge Grimm ruled that FDA’s suggestion of no less than ten months from the date of the court’s decision would be necessary for companies to finalize and submit acceptable applications. Judge Grimm granted FDA’s request.

The ten-month deadline is one of four points detailed in Judge Grimm’s remedy order. The remaining provisions of the order are as follows:

  • New products for which applications have not been filed within this period shall be subject to FDA enforcement actions, in the FDA’s discretion;
  • New products for which applications have been timely filed may remain on the market without being subject to FDA enforcement actions for a period not to exceed one year from the date of application while FDA considers the application;
  • The FDA shall have the ability to exempt New Products from filing requirements for good cause on a case-by-case basis.

While the one-year “grace period” for a manufacturer to keep a product on the market during FDA’s review of their application is nothing new, the points regarding the agency’s enforcement discretion and ability to exempt new products from the filing requirements are significant.

It may be hard to believe, but FDA specifically asked the court to preserve the agency’s enforcement discretion citing negative consequences of a mass exodus from the vapor market and an extreme and sudden decrease in access to safer alternatives to smoking. The FDA expressed strong concern that such an event would cause thousands of people who vape to return to smoking.

Preserving FDA’s enforcement discretion is not a free pass for the vapor industry and consumers should be very concerned about what this remedy order means for our access to vapor shops, vapor products, and other resources. The FDA and Congress are still facing tremendous pressure from anti-nicotine activists to ban flavors, enact taxes on vapor products, ban online sales, and raise the purchase age to 21. Additionally, we are monitoring a budding movement by local governments in California to take matters into their own hands by requiring that a vapor company has a marketing order from the FDA in order to sell their product in their city.

Take Action - Send a Message!

Thank you,
CASAA Legislative Team
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Speak of the devil, woftam. The Inquisition is reaching frenzied levels of extremity in the SF Bay Area:

As President Donald Trump vowed Wednesday to force companies to stop selling flavored vaping products, two Bay Area cities this week moved forward on legislation banning the sale of e-cigarettes altogether, regardless of flavor.

The Richmond City Council on Tuesday voted to pass an ordinance suspending the sale of e-cigarettes until the products are reviewed by the Food and Drug Administration. And on Monday, Livermore officials - who passed similar legislation in July - decided to put the matter before voters on the March 3 election.

In Livermore, Juul backed a referendum to stop the legislation from taking effect. The city council had the option to either repeal its ordinance or put the referendum on the ballot; it did the latter. Now, voters will decide whether to ban the sale of e-cigarettes in their city.

Both cities modeled their legislation after San Francisco’s ordinance, which passed in June. The actions, intended to curb rising rates of teen vaping, are significant because while many U.S. cities are banning the sale of flavored e-cigarettes - such as the fruit- and candy-flavored nicotine cartridges popular among teens - few are banning the sale of all e-cigarettes, which also come in unflavored versions that taste like regular tobacco.

Source: https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/As-Trump-vows-to-halt-sale-of-flavored-vaping-14431866.php


And don’t think they won’t do that… it’s already the case where I live. All hardware is stopped at customs (a lot of it is caught) and recipients are fined. Nic is available only in B&M shops but only at 20mg max, in practice it’s only 18mg.
You’ll want to stop regulation before it gets to that point. It’s “easier” to prevent than to reverse it.


I had to fully quote this since it’s well said. There just can’t be any changes in the right direction if we all are so damn ignorant - when it DOESN’T effect us (and not when it does).

95/100 vapers didn’t give a f when FDA prevented labeling GMO products or aspartame or when new laws are refusing your right for your privacy or you f…ing name it. And now we vapers expect a common sense, independent researches, the truth to be told, someone to listen?


I can say I vaguely remember the ban of 2009… it was a 50% chance of getting mods thru customs but no fine… I could be wrong… but I had stopped vaping when obama gave us all over to the fda and I did not come back till 2011… it was a pain in the __________.