@Sprkslfly Well said mate. I agree with what you said. Just wanted to point out that buying decision is difficult and reviews of side-by-side comparisons are often handy; often more than many other methods (like when buying new phones, air-tickets, hotels, restaurants, elsewhere).
@anon28032772 I am sorry for maybe not the wisest wording; i wouldn’t even answer if i knew where this is leading mate. I apologize.
The only thing I have learned with mixing ultras and standard flavors… is one has to give or go higher…
and to me, I would rather stick to one set of flavor companies… those that I do not have to use over 2% of flavor… it’s just a waste to me in buying diluted flavorings…
ROFL. Poor excuse =P
Label makers… Post-It notes with a rubber band… Permanent marker… Too easy to fix that particular issue! 
Yeps… I used fw banana as a car scent… when my car was flooded do to a bad seal in my sun roof…
it didnt work well even as a scent smother…
Actually its a matter of if I want to waste funds on a flavor company I have to use higher than flv 
I can understand that.
While I wish all flavors were usable between 0.5-2%, it’s an equal waste of money and time if it doesn’t fit the desired profile I’m after.
There’s simply too many other viable options to restrict myself to one company.
Fortunately, there’s only a few companies (less than I can count on one hand) that I automatically have to exclude due to insanely high requirements.
What I see here… this one first…
Testing a flavor from the very lowest… when it first starts to change in the base you created… up to where you can then tell what it is and in the range you like… up to the highest you can squeek by… can tell you lots.
I find that a lot of flv flavors have a tendency to change depending on how low or high you go… Take Pink quava… its grapefruit once you pass .6%… there are others, but I am brain dead tonight from coding… ha. but the issue is play with your flavors… test them all out… throw them around (even in cars) and see how they play…
Of course $ comes into it… we all can not afford to buy barrels, nor can most afford expensive flavors… but that is a personal budget matter… if you dont have the funds… save up, or find a cheaper company… My mama always told me… you get what you pay for…
This is your oppinion and your right… for me tho… I like to keep shipping down, flavor usage down, and I do enjoy the company I picked years ago. I have yet to get bored… I sell a lot more recipes than I do posting a share here on elr… that tells me others like either the way I mix… or… they too enjoy the taste of the mix… one the other… half a dozen of the rest… 
I always find it interesting tho to see folks mixing between the 2… ultras and standards and wonder how or why their taste buds work the way they do… guess it is the geek in me 
and Sparky… before you say anything on a flavor not matching a particular profile… if it wont come close… such as you want an apple and only have grape… of course that wont work…
sorry… yeps Im tired and off to bed I go… Coffee in the morning… new flavor… my son picked up a mocha peppermint for us to try… scary… I hope it will be good haha… 
Trust me, I’m very aware of this. I’m probably one of a very small minority* who will mix 3-4 different percentages frequently (as in almost every time I mix with a newly acquired flavor).
I figure most do only one or two testers…
No argument there.
But once you’ve run through various testers, at various percentages, through various wattages/temps, and they STILL don’t meet the desired mark (I don’t care who the manufacturer is), it’s time to move on to another brand (for me). You shouldn’t have to worry about “bending it” into something useful.
“Bending” is an advanced talent, and I think that’s something you take for granted with your experience. The new user, or even intermediate user (IMO) is better served (while they continue to advance their skills and understanding) by simply moving on. Again, my opinion and viewpoint.
Completely agree! 
Ermmm… At Flavorah’s prices, I could have bought three other companies flavors. But like the rest, some are winners, and some are losers.
I love certain FLV flavors, and find them irreplaceable. However, I’ve also had i instances where I “bought the hype”, and wished I had just bought the “three other companies flavors”.
Again, there’s no one simple answer IMO.
There’s several here who know I have to be extremely selective (as well as patient) due to financial restrictions. So trying to toss the “look how much you save by using lower percentages with FLV!” doesn’t work if it doesn’t hit the desired profile. Thankfully that’s a less frequent occurrence with FLV IME, but not infrequent enough to make it a general “outlook on mixing” for, to me.
I’m glad it has worked out well for you though.
You are you, and your experience and tastes are your own! I respect that.
/EDIT
Nice edit…
“you want an apple and only have grape…”
Come on now. You know I’d never make such an asinine example. 
I see your bending skills are finely honed.
I admire them in mixing!
You guys do buy 100mg/ml nic too right? 48mg/ml bottles are cheaper. It’s the same thing. I really don’t understand that the price of a FLV bottle always pops up when it really makes no difference. Start putting the price of your concentrates in the calculator and see for yourself.
edit: I do get that you refer to “i can buy 3 tpa/cap/fw for 1 flv, it’s more likely that I’ll find one I like with more choice”, but even there I don’t agree. I’m not like Smoky, there are FLV flavors I don’t like but from all my purchases, there’s a heck of a lot more miss-buys from other vendors than FLV.
Obviously taste is subjective, but if I had to tighten the belt and make a choice, I too would opt for only FLV probably (except for the good ones from other brands that I know). In the end, FLV does come out cheaper for me.
@anon28032772 The same thing happened every conversation about Medicine Flower too. It’s hard to break the price per bottle mindset. Past that, I’m in the same boat with @Sprkslfly I could not ever limit myself to ONE manufacturer’s flavors. Just too limiting. Sure, sure, every brand has heros and zeros, but zeros they ALL still have, and I don’t think that’s a real secret. Favoring one over another is natural once you find one that suits your palate, but I can’t wrap my head around ONLY using one brand.
With that said, there are a few that I have excluded from my stash due to more duds than anything else, BUT, that still leaves me plenty of choices left to choose from.
Less duds, and more funs, that’s always a good sign !!!
Well, I will place an order for FLV, with a budget for 10-15 bottles. At the moment I have Cheesecake, Chocolate Deutsch, Cream and Vanilla custard. (to buy to fill an order, for free shipping) Any advice on the ones you like best? Thanks in advance.
I know that the taste is subjective, etc. Just knowing which ones you can’t do without …
acai
apple filling
banana
caramel
eggnog
granola
milk and honey
peppermint
red burley
rich cinnamon
vanilla pudding
wild melon
I still have a lot to go through, may have missed a couple gems but these are great flavors
That being said… I wouldn’t buy just 10 random flavors. Look for some recipes that you think you’re going to like and base your purchase on those ingredients. At least, that’s what i would do. I don’t juggle up recipes like Smoky does.
With my 415 private and public flv recipes… all I want to do is to show how I manage to mix with one brand… < My style…
Taste is so super subjective… no one really likes to hear that, but yet not many can stick to one manufacture or “style” of flavoring… and guess what… for you all to bounce on manufactures like you are channel surfing is fine… really… it is. However… for those of us that can, and enjoy a solo manufactured recipe without getting bored, let us. watch us… maybe learn a few things from each other. As that is what makes us all better mixers in the end. That is the goal… To create good taste that satisfy 
I can promise… you are using at least a few different vendors to buy up those multiple flavor lines… and paying the shipping too. with all the shipping funds bouncing around… hell you could have picked up another couple flavors with that… than by buying at one place… never having to worry if your flavors will be available. Less stress… and I still know how the general line runs. I have goof recipes… I admit it… but then I have some omg you have to try this recipes too… We all do… but at what cost?
@Sprkslfly… I have coffee lol… and got to sleep late!! YAY!!
I do know I run between 4-8 flavors at one time. Not 8 strawberries at once… I know what flavor fatigue can do for me. I test in drops to see what I taste. Low 2 drops per 10ml, then 4 drops and so on. up to
6 different bottles for measurements and taste testing. I know what my drops weight, because I use scales. I know 1 drop for me is .02g or .02ml… I wouldn’t know that if I did not use scales…
This is why I retest my flavors every so often. Normally around 2-3 mo at a time… I keep notes of any changes or non changes…
Yes… your opinion…
Mine is this:
the minuet someone puts 2 flavors together… and then changes the same 2 flavors in different amounts… one is learning flavor bending. This right here is where it starts. By changing the volume of how much is used and when, as well as discovering what all those changes taste like. Not by moving on… it’s the minuet someone mixes for the first time… and then expands on it… because he/she enjoyed or even did not enjoy what they first mixed… even if it was just something simple.
I did all that moving on and ended up with over 1800 flavors… 5yrs+ ago… and I truly knew not what I really liked, collecting like pokemon. It was not till I sat down with one set of flavors and by documenting, trial and error… and remembering what I did to make a result happen. Not because oh… that strawberry will never meet a goal in the strawberry taste for me. I don’t like shutting doors on flavors… unless it’s yam 
I am not calling you asinine but please explain what it is when you reject a flavor for being a flavor you can not pair up to your idea if it is a orange not an orange or?? the reason we mix, or at least mine is to change up a solo taste and turn it into something else… like orange cream or orange soda or to use orange as a spiced bit in teas… or even chocolates… Im just curious @Sprkslfly about this bit…
I just have yet to meet a flavor I couldn’t play with and think it’s why I am having a hard time wrapping my head around why you would reject a flavor… unless again… apples to oranges, its a duck
If we all think outside the box as far as change… recipes become even more fun… results are more unpredictable but… that is the only way to gain experience. By mixing. With what ever you have, one manufacture or 15…
Sorry I only have 1 flavor I don’t care for… hate to say it too… even if I bought that flavor from 10 different manufactures… I still won’t like it as much as the rest of the flv’s I use… why? because I do not eat yams and after my yam recipe, the only one… I have yet to challenge me to try it again.
Not many can… sure a lot of people can mix all one manufactured juices… but not many can stick with that company over and over… I’d love a challenge… even brought it up to FLV to make a fun challenge to mix with only 1 manufacture for 1 month… brought this up years ago it seems… just to see how we all would mix… Who knows… maybe one day I might have enough interest, and people that would even want to try
Anyways… made progress on my website last night… it’s still in maintenance mod and hope to finish up on one section today… will see how it goes!
I think all of this post is from subjective tastes… even my own and sorry my post is like huge!! haha!!
Smoky clouded up the thread here lol… ooops.
Gus… I’d recommend looking at the stared recipes on my list and see if you want to make one… stick to the ones that have 4-6 flavors… that way maybe you can make something other than that recipe too… I’d also think on your own favorite profiles you like to vape too…
My top rated ones…
or I do have some personal ones I think are best I released between now and a few weeks ago…
https://e-liquid-recipes.com/?filter=28997
but just dig around… look for what you really want to make… and failing that… toss me an idea and I can create a recipe for you… 
I think we just have an impasse here, now correct me if I’m wrong. Smoky loves da Flavorah. Smoky has shit tons of Flavorah only recipes. Smoky loves da Flavorah. Some mixers prefer multiple bands. Right ?
Sprsfly and I (assuming) are talking about the whole, “What if you can’t GET there, using only one flavorhouse” thing. I mean, what’s this really about ?? Time, skill, money, right ?
Say I need to hit a INW Biscuit, or CAP Vanilla Custard, and I ONLY use one flavorhouse. What if NOTHING they offer comes close ? What if they DO offer a compromise, BUT, it takes 5 or more flavors to do it ? How much time, money, effort, will be spent TRYING to figure out the alternate 5 flavor work around, as opposed to just using your INW Biscuit or CAP VC ??
It appears the confusion goes BOTH ways. “You only use ONE brand”, “You use MORE than one brand”.
Great, we’re ALL confused now LOL.
I know I have tried and true flavors from at least 4-5 vendors that are too damned good to not use. I don’t hop around buying things from multiple vendors (except rare occasions), just place an order, for as many flavors as I need, regardless of the flavor brand. I just picked UP a huge batch of Flavorahs, because I never really worked with them much, except the biggies that everyone knows. NO clue on the others, so it will take some time. I did not enter into this purchase looking to replace ANY of my existing tried and trues. If it happens, it happens, but that was not the goal.
Myself never having anywhere enough Time, Money, or Skill, if I need a Vanilla Ice Cream, I just grab my jug of LB, because it just works. Doesn’t mean I can’t get there some OTHER way, but do I have the time, money, skill, or patience to do so ? Probably not. Points all well made in this thread, and it would seem we would all benefit from learning about MORE flavors (like I’m trying to) rather than talk about EXCLUDING flavors. INCLUDING more flavors, EXPANDING your recipes, INCREASING your skill seems should be the focus, regardless OF the flavor house. At the rate Smoky is churning out recipes it will greatly SPEED up my FLV testing.
Ok… That helps clarify things to some degree (for me).
To me, that’s not bending at all. That’s what I consider to be “learning how to balance a mix”.
IE: Whether you want (for example) a mix to be more strawberry forward, or more banana forward.
You’re not intrinsically changing either one (so to speak) as both should still be present and identifiable in the result.
To me, bending is changing the initial two flavors (or more) into a completely unexpected result.
Say… If mixing Milk and custard turned into yogurt.
If you were going for a custard with a bit of milk to lighten the texture, or sweeten the notes, but somehow ended up with sour notes in the result instead (resulting in an unintended “yogurt” effect).
In my opinion, if a “sour note” was present in milk, it has obviously gone bad, and should not be used. Same for custard.
So if I got that from testing during a single flavor, I would automatically remove it from consideration as being a viable flavor (as well as one to be repurchased). To me, such flavors only serve to complicate, or make matters much more difficult, as they’re not as easy to work with.
Kind of a similar thing with some of the more complex flavors that have been released in the last year and a half or so.
If I want a strawberry flavor, I don’t want all the side/off notes. I don’t want a hint of lemon, or green, or something else. As the rest are things that IF I desired any of them to be done, I would add them using another flavor/additive as desired.
That’s part of why I went into some of the things/reasons I look for what I do, and dismiss some (as being viable candidates) of what I do above. I still don’t feel like I’ve explained it clear enough (for some nagging reason), but hopefully it provides at least some better understanding of what I’m trying/hoping to communicate.
As am I Smoky!
That’s the my reason I continue to try and understand some of why it is that you do what you do. Even though our process is so very different, I’m learning that we also have different definitions of things (bending for example). But even still, I figure there are things that can be learned from others with different points of view towards mixing (the same as there is in real life).
While I may not necessarily agree with whatever specific aspect (or you with mine), I still try and listen and take it in.
Great example, and reason I went into wanting a specific flavor for the job above (and again, why I eliminate some).
If I wanted to use whatever my preferred “base orange” was, into an orange cream, I would expect/WANT to take that orange, and add the desired cream to provide the result.
A, there aren’t many orange creams out there. B, they’re not as likely to hit my expectations of a specific outcome when I think “orange cream”.
Primarily because, when I think orange cream, I only think one thing. Orange Julius. And the ones I’ve tried labeled “off the shelf” as orange cream, definitely do not fit that bill.
Granted, if I would think first of ‘the orange creme filling in a cookie’ (Ala Gamesa’s Naranja cookies) them I might feel differently. So again, it comes down to not only the desired result, but also the psychology of how the mind works in relation to one’s preference (above and beyond how the mind perceives what’s received by the tongue and nose).
Is it any wonder this shit is so subjective? 
Oi.
Well, I have met some I had no desire to play with (at any of my stages until where I currently am), but that’s not the same as saying that I couldn’t. I just choose a different approach!
@anon84779643 ?? I think that’s a given. I know newer mixers have a hard time reconciling that when they mix up some of the “top” recipes, and hate them.
LOL, well dammit, I can NOW mix more than a few of those up, so I can SEE what’s what, AND, see where our palates align, or diverge.
If I’m reading this right, it implies a never ending back and forth ?? I would replace “bouncing” with “choosing”. I don’t bounce anywhere, too damned lazy for it. I do however, choose to use certain flavors FROM different houses that do what I need them to do. Some, right out of the bottle, and some need pushing/pulling.
Ahhhh, NOW we’re cooking with gas. THAT, is what this is SUPPOSED to all be about.