Here is tidbit that should,IMO, eliminate the controversy over using heat and and leaving nicotine out when mixing. The glycerine chemical is composed of the following.
Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen. These are the gases forming the tiny bubbles or milky appearance when using the GC. I do not want to oxidize my nicotine which will in turn oxidize the flavor materials and that is why I have steadfastly advised to leave the nic out. The homogenizer can turn your mix to shit with nic in the mix. 
Because I’m “slightly obsessed” 
with most things vape related, I now absolutely have to have and desperately need 
a homogenizer! I need guidance as to a halfway decent budget level device. Any help is greatly appreciated!
There is an old thread that lists some pretty high end equipment I have. I haven’t updated it for a long time and some of it has been sold. However, I’m sorting through things and have found a drawer full of GC parts and boxes full of pre machined materials. Covid hit me hard which was followed by major health problems that interrupted producing the GC. It was a long recovery and during that time running a lathe and mill etc. were out of the question.
I’ll update the old thread real soon. Mixing Equipment for Sale If you search eBay for Pro Scientific, Kinematica /Polytron, IKA, Vertis, Vertashear or just homogenizers it will give you a good idea of whats out there. Use caution and I’ll be glad to advise on anything. Lots or most of that stuff needs repair which I can do in most cases and some of it is a “steal” uh, cuz it likely is “stealed”. 
There’s a zillion of the asian model on the bay. I’ll just stay neutral on that.
See this…
I can say with 100% certainty that FA uses the high shear process because I’ve seen the mixer in videos. There are ultrasonic “cell disrupters” that produce the same results. Homogenizers are used across the spectrum for processing nearly everything from foods, beverages, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, lubricants, medical testing, etc etc.
“Steeping” is a very broad term. Soaking, absorbing, penetrating, macerating, infusing, aging, maturing etc etc …all have the same destination; a stable and consistent vape ready finished product.
After careful thought, I will ‘go there.’ After all, these statements go to the heart of the matter but I have to say I wouldn’t know premium if it jumped up and bit me. In a recipe contest, I’d no doubt come in dead last. My mixes are simple and rarely consist of more than 3 or maximum 4 flavors. No talent along with smoking for over 50 years leaves me amazed that I can even breathe let alone taste.
I recall a conversation with @woftam about 5 years ago when he described “steeping” as a bad term that stuck. I agreed and still do. It would be impossible to calculate how many statements about “all kinds of steeping methods” we’ve all seen. But I’m reminded, just as an example, of @Ken_O_Where 's story about finding a strawnanna custard mix he left in a drawer for months and how it had developed into deliciousness. Okay, what caused this? What physically occurred? Or was it a chemical transformation? Magic? Divine intervention? The point is how can a new or another mixer know what he has until the juice has reached its finished state. "Premium " would be unrealistic.
When I began my project some of the best mixers participated in what I fondly remember as great discussions and fun. Woftam, @Sprkslfly, @SmilingOgre , Garry now known as @Tworrs, @Mjag, Jim, @Steampugs, @fidalgo_vapes, @Grubby, Phil Fish, @Fishaddict420 among others participated.The GC was born from this.
My opinion, its long overdue for a science based discussion post where mixers can access hard data, be it physical and mechanical or if you believe its chemical transformation, then post the data. I think "all kinds of “steeping methods” equals confusion and failure.
I’ll start the thread and then shut up. Blame muth for calling me up from exile
Dont shut up…I love this stuff
This would be a very interesting thread and I would love to read it as it developed. My perspective on “steeping” is very simplistic. I think of a broth based stew or soup that tastes better the longer it sits like a “leftover”. The flavors dissipate into the broth and blend together as a modified broth.
Does bring to mind that do single flavours mature the older they get like a wine or beer ,port and such rather than going off if not opened
I dont think so. I have a couple old bottles of juice and look like motor oil and smell like mildew. Flavorings on the other hand dont spoil but i can see them losing potency over time
I think the answer lies in whether were are mixing with organic extracts and materials or with artificial flavorings constructed from the molecule up by chemists/flavorists. Its hard when your senses are telling you that you are tasting an apple when no part of it actually came from an apple. It is for me anyway. I have to remind myself that we are dealing with aromas.
I know that the chemicals that comprise the flavor materials get diluted about 80 times usually with PG and often some alcohol and things beyond my knowledge. So I don’t worry about spoilage but can see where potency could be lost over time. While there are triggers that can cause chemical transformations, overall I reject that our concentrates are chemically morphing into different chemicals and back again. Avoid oxidation and other triggers and the “ifs” are not a factor.
Ha, I’m having an old man day . Hard to get started sometimes.
I’m betting that those old bottles were mixed with nic. The clock starts ticking when its added. We’ve all had mixes that turn to brown sludge. I have straight mixes a year old that are essentially the same as the day mixed. But even ones with just 1 mg added start to turn after a couple of months. Heat, UV, and oxygen cause the oxidation.
Thats true. Its really all the nic oxidization that degrades it. I have flavorings and pg and vg from 2010 that look smell perfectly fine except for a couple fw flavors that turned to black motor oil( i believe the ones they use fructose in). I noticed my old bottle of vanillin 10 percent went black too. Thats interesting as a lot of flavors have vanillin in their makeup.
I found 2 different mixes I found sitting on a shelf in my mixing room. They’re 4 years old. One a custard the other a cheesecake. Both brown as all get go. Both about 16 oz of each. Been vaping both for about 6 months now. The cheesecake was well off flavor the custard has oxidized but was fine to vape and still have about 40ml left. The oxidizing actually worked with the recipe. The cheesecake went down the drain.
To each their own and I suspect that a lot of people like or have become accustomed to oxidized nic. Personally I think I’d gag on it. When I first started I found a place called the Vape Mall and ordered flavors and some nice brown truly nasty ass nic. Then I found ELR and tried top rated recipes which had no chance of working with that nic. Combine that with being a pepper taster with TFA concentrates. The first month I vaped unflavored and it’s a wonder I didn’t go back to smoking with that foul garbage. Now I have a freezer full of Carolina extract and Chemnovatic which should last for several years.
Brings back memories of vaping in 2009. It was like the majority of sites selling juice was peppery perfumy garbage
I remember vape mall. Mostly FA renamed flavors for cheap. These were recipes I made up and were pushed in back of a cabinet and found while looking for something else. My taste buds are pretty much shot from smoking for 54 years. I started smoking at 13. Quit about 9 years ago. I don’t taste the subtle neuances others describe. I don’t taste pepper but can tell between good and bad nic. I have a gallon of nic short one liter in the freezer downstairs and about 6 60ml bottles in the freezer upstairs about 4 years old. Clear as glass mabe a little pink. It s red by the time I get to the bottom of a working bottle. I’m 71 I doubt I’ll be buying much more nic in my life time. It was funny how each mix oxidized. One got ruined and the other sort of enhanced. After 4 years on the shelf.
Hmm Born 1952 - check. Started smoking at 13 - check. Taste buds probably shot after 50 + years of smoking - check. Have a freezer full of nic - check. So I guess when they try to force us to “eat ze bugs” we’ll still have our nic. 
Saw the price increce coming with all the government noise. Paid $64.00 a liter shipped. Now it’s $165.00 a liter? Never could afford to do that today. Figure I have enough to go 10-11years. According to actuarial tables I’m still about 6 years short. I’m going to be one aunry SOB in 11 years if I don’t cut back to 3ml nic mixes.
When it comes to juice getting dark, I just toss it. It can yellow a little but that’s it. It’s pure psychological but I just don’t want anything to do with it. I don’t know what all is involved. I know nic will oxidize but some mixes go dark much faster than others. Not much of a problem for me because nothing sits around more than a week. I make it as I need it.
