Medicine Flower contains PG

[Sprkslfly]

First off, GREAT share bro!

@fidalgo_vapes

@Nicotine_River has been working with them to formulate these flavors

Well. That certainly raises more questions doesn’t it?!

Given the report of:

@fidalgo_vapes

Alysia owner of MF snd she has confirmed that there is PG sourced from Vegtable not petroleum and always has been in their flavors

Does this mean:

• that MF is going to offer different products?

I mean, if it’s always been there, and certain folks with sensitivities have raved over them and had no ill effects thus far… Then it stands to reason that their issue is probably more with the flavoring companies that uses petroleum based PG. Interesting in any case!

Does this mean:

• that MF is going to manufacturer ALL of their products (regardless of where they’re sold, or by whom) the same?

Because, when it’s said that “@Nicotine_River has been working with them to formulate these flavors” (which fidalgo_vapes is obviously paraphrasing), that leaves the distinct impression that things are being customized from the traditional flavors that were being offered (above and beyond whatever normal changes that MF might have made as a normal matter of time and improvements in refining the process on their own)

Yeah. Gonna need some popcorn, and some concrete statements before I get “concerned” I think.

[fidalgo_vapes]

@Sprkslfly

that MF is going to offer different products?

Alysia did mention New flavors are coming …Any other things ill let others address , like i said itbwas a great conversation about the process and she wants to be transparent and put anyones worries at ease . My main qurstions were

is there PG in these flavors

Are they the same as the extracts we buy direct and from GEB

Are they the same strength

She went on to explain the process and I dont want to go down that road and screw anything up in the process by accidently messing that process up by a step or two. Alysia asked for the forum links so she can come here asap …

Note : wow how many times did I say process

[jay210]

@anon28032772

Wondering here how many people with PG allergies have been happily vaping MF concentrates…
Would be interesting to know that an allergy is not due to PG itself but the petroleum source of PG. And that would definitely open new doors for those people as well.

unfortunately that data wouldn’t actually answer the question. Going by posts on these boards, it seems that most people with PG sensitivity find they can get away with reducing the PG to bare minimum. Obviously, if your PG is coming from the flavourings only , then just switching to MF could sort it.

That’s not to say that continued low-level exposire. like you’d get from vaping, would be harmless. In some people (with IgE reactions) that kind of thing works to decrease their sebsitivity (over a very long period of time, under close medical supervision) . In others it has the reverse effect. I’ve endeavoured to keep the PG-content of my vape at zero, because I already know that I belong to that latter group.; and there’s no guessing how many others.

So yeah, mad though it may seem, I might actually have to stop using MF. And this info might explain a few symptoms that I’m getting at the moment (though i’ve got a list of possible alternative culprits, TBH)

As for the argument that PG-allergy is due to PG being a petroleum priduct: that was always just an unsubstantiated assumption; and not a very convincing one at that, when you consider that allergens contain protien, usually .And I’m sorry to hear that’s now been accepted as a fact by intelligent people.

Since word got out that PG is nowadays commercially extracted from plant material , that assumption looks all the more shaky.

Nobody knows the answer though, and nobody’s in a position to even make an educated guess. Why not? because, whatever the source of the PG is, it doesn;t appear on the label. and manufacturers of PG-containing products can and do chop and change their source without notice.

Ofc it might easily turn out (if it ever gets properly tested) that some people react to petroleum-based PG, some to corn-based PG, and so on. Why on earth should we expect one single definitive answer? But since corn contains protein and protoleum doesn’t , my money would be on the corn as the culprit, if i had just those two to choose from

[anon28032772]

@jay210

I’m sorry to hear that’s now been accepted as a fact by intelligent people.

Whoah, I didn’t claim that. IF it is the case, it would be good… I never said “Oh good, now that’s settled, petroleum is the cause of all”. Just that it would be interesting if people could give vegetable PG a try to see if that solves their problem.
I think I would rather take that approach than to say you’re now going to stay away from MF flavors as well. Wouldn’t you rather be sure of the exact source of your problems?

[Plunderdrum]

We’re getting off topic here.

[jay210]

@anon28032772 Believe it or not, I was not getting at you.
That aside (And I do know i’m asking a lot, here ) you need to read my post more closely before replying and putting words into my mouth.

I certainly didn’t say “” I’m going to stay away from MF"" . I said, I might have to…very reluctantly, if and only if my next eliminstion trial clearly flags up MF as the cuplrit. Or, probably I should, if MF’s PG turns out to be corn-based (because I 'm definitely sensitive to corn, and in pretty tiny quantities too) , But that would be such a wrench, i’m not making any promises.

But hey! I was trying not to bore you guys with all those little details. I surely do enough of that already?

@anon28032772

Wouldn’t you rather be sure of the exact source of your problems?

Yep. that’s precisely why I impose those elimination trials on myself at intervals. I get much more reliable info that way than I do from manufacturer’s lablels . And, importantly, that info is then specific to me, and not based on generalised assumptions .

@anon28032772

Just that it would be interesting if people could give vegetable PG a try to see if that solves their problem.

It would, but then, people have been giving vegetable PG a try without even knowing it, for years and yearsalready. And that’s only served to muddy the issue. As I tried to say in my post above. Isn’t it obvious that a properly designed scientific study, with all the variables identified and contolled, is what’s really needed here?( But who’s going to fund that? )

[fidalgo_vapes]

@jay210

MF’s PG turns out to be corn-based

Vegetable based , that I can confirm …

[Sprkslfly]

She’s making the automatic leap that if it’s vegetable based…there almost “has to” be corn in it (from her perspective).

[fidalgo_vapes]

Ahhh ha bc corn is a vegatable … Wow 2 + 1 =9 for me today lmao

[jay210]

@Sprkslfly

She’s making the automatic leap that if it’s vegetable based…there almost “has to” be corn in it (from her perspective).

Nope.
When FV quoted me he naughtily missed out the wörd “if”. . i.e. that was a conditional clause, not a statement.

Don’t you Mods have better things to do than make fun of people when they’re trying to extract some clear and unambiguous information?

[Sprkslfly]

@fidalgo_vapes

2 + 1 =9 for me today lmao

LMAO… Nah… Not so much that, as it is that given how plentiful corn is, and the cost effectiveness of the product (corn) to be turned into other things…

This increases the potential likelihood of having a product include it in areas where corn (or an ingredient that’s derived from corn) can be used.

HOWEVER, my position is such that there’s a distinct difference between being corn based, and having an amount in it that’s going to affect some miniscule amount of the vaping population (which is what we’re here to talk about).

[jay210]

@Plunderdrum

We’re getting off topic here.

Indeed. Splitting off this sidetrack is one if the aforementioned better things our Mods might be doing.

[Sprkslfly]

@jay210

Don’t you Mods have better things to do

A. I’m NOT a moderator. (my “fun title” or whatever you want to call the thing under my name, has to do with me evaluating mods [regulated or otherwise], most frequently from a “deceased” standpoint.)

@jay210

make fun of people

B. I was not making fun of you.

Might be a good idea to take a step back/away for a bit.

[Leilani]

@fidalgo_vapes

confirmed that there is PG sourced from Vegtable not petroleum and always has been in their flavors …

and @Sprkslfly - Could it be that the vegetable based PG is in fact 1,3 Propanediol? I believe that regular PG is a petrochemical and 1,3 Propanediol aka PDO and 1,3-Propylene Glycol is vegetable based; more specifically corned based.

Those with PG based sensitivities usually switch to PDO (The Perfumers Apprentice now sells it on their website) because they do not suffer from the negative reactions from standard PG.

Links:

The Good Scents Company - 1,3-propane diol | 1,3-propanediol

Zemea USP-FCC Propanediol for Food and Flavors

[fidalgo_vapes]

@jay210

When FV quoted me he naughtily missed out the wörd “if”. . i.e. that was a conditional clause, not a statement.

Yes I did , my bad …

[fidalgo_vapes]

Good Question for Alysia … Hey you… How are things

[Sprkslfly]

@Leilani

Could it be that the vegetable based PG is in fact 1,3 Propanediol?

I don’t know. But if it is, some of us have already been down that road (not just by using flavors that were created with it as a primary carrier, but by using the actual product (PDO) itself), and I can say it won’t end well (at least per my opinion and experience with it)!

[Leilani]

Yes. Most definitely ask Alysia because I’m sure that would clear up a lot of confusion about the “PG”. Doing good Fidalgo! Thanks for asking (^_^) ! How are you?

@Sprkslfly

some of us have already been down that road (not just by using flavors that were created with it as a primary carrier, but by using the actual product (PDO) itself), and I can say it won’t end well (at least per my opinion and experience with it)!

Yeah, I think I know what your referring to regarding PDO in some flavors; Real Flavors? I was trying to catch up on the thread on the PDO vs Alcohol %'s in their actual flavors. What I remember is that some of their SC’s did contain minimal amounts of it. I heard some good experiences and bad but I would def. have to recheck that RF thread.

I’ve never used PDO as a replacement for standard PG but I do know that a few mixers use it and a few CBD e-liquid companies use it as their base because the PG ratio is higher for CBD e-liquid. A lot of people complain about throat hit or that the CBD mixes better with PDO. I also know that Five Pawns e-liquid use PDO as their base and ppl seem to like it a lot.

[jay210]

@Sprkslfly

A. I’m NOT a moderator. (my “fun title” or whatever you want to call the thing under my name, has to do with me evaluating mods [regulated or otherwise], most frequently from a “deceased” standpoint.)

Ah point taken . And FV’s ava is just wearing a funny yellow nose?,(yeah, i know that doesn’t imply mod necessarily, but that distinctions got blurred has it not?)
BTW, if you could hand out a like for the top half of a post, you woulda got one for that, but then you ruined it with:

@Sprkslfly

HOWEVER, my position is such that there’s a distinct difference between being corn based, and having an amount in it that’s going to affect some miniscule amount of the vaping population (which is what we’re here to talk about).

cos, for reasons that i;m not inclined to repeat, the jury is still out on how much of the population this potentially affects. or rather, it ought to be out… Welllll… (can’t resist) main reason is that corn is increasingly ubiquitous and so very well hidden that it’s a marvel that anybody ever manages to figure out that they have a corn allergy (personal experience: it literally took me years of being forced to elimininate this that and the other from my diet, before I sussed what all those eliminated ingredients have in common.The moment of enlightenment came shortly after I had to -ironically- eliminate my antihistamine tablets ) .

So it stands to reason we’re looking at the tip of the iceberg,