Michigan becomes first state to ban flavored e-cigarettes, cites dangers of vaping

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Hmmm. Some associated marketeering sizzle, “CBD e-liquid bursting with juicy mangoes, fleshy peaches, and deliciously sweet cream”. They make it sound like losing one’s virginity … :stuck_out_tongue: … It seems endemic (for many folks) to sanctimoniously chortle about how CBD, “doesn’t get them high”. If it doesn’t make one feel better, then why even use it ? What’s with such “virtuous self-flagellation” routines, anyway ? End of rant.

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Lol, I have never tried it but a I have numerous friends that get relief from muscle ache with it. Thought I’d give it a try and of course see if the immediate Michigan ban had taken hold yet. By the end of a four hour show my old hands, oh hell, back, legs, arms. every damn thing is about toast. I get dancin around actin a fool with the crowd and then crawl in the front door when I get home. My wife is a doll. No complaints when I collapse in the recliner for the rest of the night. Even puts the honey do list on hold for the next day.

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So, you think that CDB oils (for which it is anybody’s guess should be heated and inhaled at all) are affected by the frenetic, weepy, pinheaded ravings of your pile of shit Guv’nor ?

Being a self-taught (hack) musician myself, I was curious as to what (various, in general) types of music you personally enjoy listening to (and enjoy playing, if perhaps different).

Haven’t picked up my Stratocaster in many years (after around 20 years of pickin). Playing guitar (especially those thick bass strings) can indeed be rather physically demanding.

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Ya, I have no idea what goes on in that woman’s head. Don’t care to either.

And yes, also, I’m noticing more ache as I get older. Love the strat! We have a standing joke that we are a real band because we do drugs as we pass around the IBuprofen.

I can listen to most anything and have an appreciation for it. I’ve played a good variety as well. I was with the 7th Army band out of Stuttgart for a few years. Spent a little over a decade with a big band / swing band. Played with a number of jazz combos. Even did some time with a Rag Time band. The band I’m with now is classic Rock with a jazz twist. The keyboardist is a Nuclear Physicist at the U of M and is classically trained on keys. He and I kinda sidetrack the band from time to time. The other two guys are very intuitive and just go with the flow. I guess if I were to name other bassists I admire the list would start with Christian McBride, Adam Ben Erza and Tal Wilkenfeld. There are a lot of really good bassists out there. I’m self taught on the bass guitar but had training on the upright. I still play both although I did trade the upright in for an EUB. Much easier to carry around and amplify.

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Interesting, my friend. NSAIDs (Ibuprofen) are truly dangerous drugs. The panache of life in “the fast lane”.

I introduced myself to Jazz greats Herb Ellis and Larry Coryell (as well as a local fellow named Howard Roberts) in the late 1980s. Good people who gave me their time - and all liked playing through my “magic box” contraption for a “fuller, fatter, sweeter, clean” sound. The great Buddy Guy really “tore it up” using it.

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I enjoy playing a lot. I can completely crystallize while doing so. Very nice.

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Oh my!!! Look what Gretchen has to loose if tobacco sales continue to diminish…

Note also the money devoted to “saving the children” from smoking…

Figures from Michigan’s portion of the master settlement agreement.

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Jacob Sullum at Reason Magazine does his usual decimation of these idiotic machinations of power:

Last Friday, the department made a “finding of emergency” that says “a vaping crisis among youth” justifies “the promulgation of emergency rules.”

That finding does not cite any specific statutory authority for such “emergency rules.” But according to Chelsea Lewis, the governor’s deputy press secretary, the health department is relying on its general authority under Section 333.2226(d), combined with Section 24.248 of the Administrative Procedures Act, which says an agency may issue an emergency rule “without following the notice and participation procedures” that would otherwise apply when it “finds that preservation of the public health, safety, or welfare” requires it and the governor agrees.

In short, Whitmer’s e-cigarette ban rests on a breathtakingly broad reading of her authority to make emergency rules in the name of “public health,” however she defines it. “The rules will be filed in the next few weeks,” Lewis says. “They will take immediate effect once filed.”

Last year the New York Department of Health, whose powers include writing regulations that “deal with any matters affecting the security of life or health or the preservation and improvement of public health in the state of New York,” rescinded regulations that would have banned flavored e-cigarettes. Critics, who noted that similar bans have been introduced in the state legislature but have not gone anywhere, said the regulations were an improper usurpation of legislative authority.

Source (September 4, 2019):
Michigan Governor’s Reckless E-Cigarette Ban Relies on a Breathtakingly Broad Reading of Her Authority To Protect ‘Public Health’


Source: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XOGezf_Ifxo/maxresdefault.jpg


Gretchen demonstrates her powers of uniquely bombastic, while nevertheless idiotically persuasive oratory.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28yWSsybV3c

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That woman looks crazy :woozy_face:

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Here’s the unctuous, bombastic meltdown that I, to my horror witnessed early the other morning on MSNBC:

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Ya know a purple slide would be total badass… :wink:

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When One Finds Themselves Rooting for Wealthy Goliaths - One Fathoms Their Own Desperation.

(September 12, 2019): Efforts to ban flavored e-cigarettes and reduce their appeal to youngsters have sputtered under industry pressure in over a half-dozen states this year. … In many cases, the fight by the industry and its lobbyists has focused on leaving the most popular flavors - mint and its close cousin, menthol - alone. … the fight in state legislatures has been fierce. Lobbyists for the vaping and tobacco industry fought bans on flavors in Hawaii, California, New Mexico, Massachusetts, New York, Maine and Connecticut. Such bans failed or stalled, even as Michigan’s governor this month ordered emergency rules prohibiting flavored e-cigarettes. … Officials in Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s administration discussed exempting mint and menthol flavors from the e-cigarette ban, but “determined that the action taken was the best path forward to protect youth,” said Bob Wheaton, spokesman for the state Department of Health and Human Services. A court challenge is expected for Michigan’s ban.

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Californication, Sacramento Style - Hot Summer Nights at State Capitol

It’s been nothing but bad news for the vaping industry these days - except in the California State Capitol. A strong bill to ban the sale of flavored vaping products was sidelined without a hearing in a committee controlled by Assemblyman Adam Gray, D-Juul, earlier this summer.

In its place, Gray offered up a weaker bill. It mysteriously vaporized at the last minute. No big loss there. The American Cancer Society Action Network had called the first draft of Gray’s proposal “a complete sham.” State Sen. Jerry Hill, D-San Mateo, told Politico it was “an industry-sponsored plan that doesn’t help alleviate the epidemic of youth vaping.”

Surely, Gray’s actions had nothing to do with the fact that vaping and tobacco companies have poured lots of money into his campaign coffers. Juul, which markets a vaping device popular with school children, donated “$33,800 to Gray and his associated fundraising committees,” according to a story by CALmatters’ Ben Christopher.

The tobacco companies didn’t hesitate to reward Gray handsomely for killing off the bills. “On the first business day after the legislative year came to a close, Assemblyman Adam Gray accepted $25,000 to his ballot measure committee from Philip Morris USA, the maker of America’s most popular cigarette, Marlboro,” reported Scott Lay of The Nooner.

Philip Morris is a subsidiary of Altria, which also owns a large stake in Juul.

Source: https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article235193092.html

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Update (September 17, 2019):

California became the third state to take executive action on flavored vaping products, but Gov. Gavin Newsom failed to garner enough legislative backing to secure an actual ban, ABC News reported. … Newsom fell short of marshaling the required legislative commitment, announcing on Sept. 16 instead that his executive order would increase enforcement against counterfeit e-cigarettes and “against those abusing the law” by giving minors access to products containing nicotine, he said. … he announced a $20 million digital and social media advertising campaign to discourage vaping among teens.

Source:
California Moves Toward E-Cig Flavor Ban - Gov. falls short, says action would require legislative support

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Since this occurs in Michigan…

I’m shocked she did not blame vaping! :wink:

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Perhaps best to not give such a “dynamically stable genius” any ideas ? She needs a new “Sunday sermon”.

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Yup, short fills … same we do here in the EU. It’s bloody annoying but it works.
Although I fail to see how it deters kids from doing the same. If they could get their hands on e-liquids before, they’ll be able to get their hands on the nic boosters as well.

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More than surprising @woftam.

Michigan’s ban on flavored e-cigarettes provides a loophole for people worried about reverting back to cigarettes.

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s ban only applies to flavored nicotine. That means people may still buy vape liquids and pods that are free of nicotine. And for about $5, they can buy a flavorless nicotine packet and dump it into a bottle of vape liquid.

The ban no longer prohibits possession of flavored nicotine; it only prohibits the sale of it.

Since the process will make it more difficult for children to get their hands on both vape liquid and nicotine packets, Whitmer’s ban still has its intended impact. And for vapors who feared reverting back to cigarettes, they still have a way to vape flavored nicotine.

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I (at present) cannot verify the above statement made here anywhere else. On September 10, 2019 the National Law Review (go to their mandatory “free sign-up screen”, do nothing, then “back-up” to the article text) published the following statement:

The Emergency Rules also prohibit the transport intended for delivery to retailers of such products. Of note, there is a rebuttable presumption that a person possessing four (4) or more products with characterizing flavors intends to sell them at retail. Based on this, it appears that e-liquid manufacturers in Michigan producing flavored vapor products, even if only for sale outside of the state, would be considered possessing products with the intent to sell, and subject to penalties.

Another significant issue is whether enfarcement of this Dictum will rest (only) with a State level Liquor (etc) Board and its particular enfarcement ossifers, or (more threateningly, and potentially pervasively), if county and municipal police farces will also (or themselves) have jurisdiction to enfarce. Enfarcement duties make a huge difference. A small number of overworked Control Board Ossifers would be far less intimidating. :thinking:

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