Michigan becomes first state to ban flavored e-cigarettes, cites dangers of vaping

General Health and advocacy
102

Holy crap… is it just me, or does Rule 2.3 say that if you (as an end user) have more than four bottles of flavored product (with no distinction to DIY or something along those lines) then you fall under the law as being a presumptive ‘retailer’? You now have DIY juice creators that can be hit with ‘intent to resale’ the same way as if you have too much pot on you when you get pulled over?

(3) A person who possesses four or more flavored vapor products, or flavored alternative nicotine products is rebuttably presumed to possess said items with the intent to sell.

I have more than that steeping in my cabinet right now. Sheesh

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103

Yes indeed (if construed in the most totalitarian spirit with which the Inquisitory Dictum was creepily crafted). The good-old “Possession with intent to sell”, ala our insanely conceived and implemented 100-year War on People who use Drugs. The imagery of attempting to rebut their “rebuttable presumptions” in a court of law would be somewhat humorous - were it not so pathetically tyrannical in its unctuous inhumanity. The Dark Ages of Petty Tyrants has near fully arrived. Time to line up for the State sponsored full frontal lobotomies.

I do suspect that this ill-conceived legal experiment is ultimately destined to become a politically as well a practically untenable failure - but perhaps not before other States also sanctimoniously leap into the “pool”.

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104

Definitely more states jumping into the fray. Apparently Illinois just put forward a bill that pretty much does the same thing as Michigan. Illinois HB3883

(Though to be fair, I didn’t see anything about ‘intent to sell’ in the text of the document. However I might have missed it)

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105

It’s right there at the end of the language of Rule 2(3). “Intent to sell” is a long standing operational phrase in (anti-drug) law. It is entirely unclear how one might endeavor to successfully “rebut” said assumption in court proceedings - just the way that they intended such inquisitory dicta to function - as an encouragement for the populace to ghoulishly turn upon each other. Turn in your neighbors. Kids, it’s cool to turn in your parents etc

It’s amazing how the Illinois as well as the Michigan bill/rule language has rather mindlessly lifted California’s (thankfully failed) bill language - that clearly sets up an utterly confusing and wholly unenforceable dictum that virtually guarantees the existence of extensive litigation. Whereas Michigan did not dare to include Cigarette Tobacco, the Illinois bill language (like California’s recent failed effort) does - thus ensuring that the first (and richest) litigants will be so-called “Big Tobacco” corporations themselves, who would surely seek to muscle their way into preserving their profits, and will understandably demand some “registry” of allowed/disallowed “flavoring substances” to be implemented, and, having achieved protection, would (probably) join the State in “genuflecting praise” for their moral courage in the implementation of pure crony-capitalist-chemical-statism. Should vapers pay up big time, the same might be true. The taxations would be passed along to customers.

I have a hunch that “BT” attorneys may have managed to kill the California bill this Summer by presenting to legislatures a scenario of involved and expensive litigations (over inclusion/exclusions of the many various types of cigarette tobacco “flavorings”). The same thing (may, possibly) take place in Illinois, as well. Pols only need to be able to “say they tried” come re-election time - whereas it is “BT” ciggie profits which are those companies’ “bread and butter”, and that fund settlement revenues going to state coffers. A rather perverse heavy-sin-tax toxicity-machine - one that “vaping” might emulate (taxed and supervised to death).

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106

That is what I saw too…

Welcome to the anti vaping Mi USA rules…

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107

Has this something to do with it??? Unbelievable!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/bloomberg-to-spend-160-million-to-ban-flavored-e-cigarettes/2019/09/09/5abc1e5c-d33c-11e9-9343-40db57cf6abd_story.html

160 Millions!! Did “somebody” already know about this???

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108

Just think… if we each gave 2 bucks… wonder how much that would take?
I doubt that could happen tho… us diyers and those that vape, do it to stay cheap… rarely having the funds for much else… :cry:

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109

e-cigarette use threatens a historic decline in smoking in recent years

Ummm could it be that e-cigarette use is the actual cause of the historic decline in smoking in recent years? This is so frustrating when they actually want to ban the reason for the decline. They are hell-bent on this and with a war chest like that, it is going to be a tough ask fighting it.

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110

They said that a 10% price increase on cigs would reflect on 3% to 5% sale decrease… idiots, they refuse to admit that vaping in the last 10 years is the real decline in smoking rates:

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And this is up to 2016…

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111

I can tell you based on the shitty model here in Australia where the price of a packet of smokes increases by 12% per year every year, it has not had a marked effect on smoking rates (around a 1% drop since 2014).

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112

That’s what my wife always said… even if they double the price i wouldn’t quit (she’s now a double user… at the moment)

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113

Vaping is “THE BIG” respiratory problem in Michigan?

If it was any other State I might believe it.

I’ll take a wild guess … all the cases are from the areas talked about in the articles bel3wo? Maybe?

Links to the articles below.

In Detroit’s industrial suburbs, toxic air is destroying generations of black residents while local and federal officials twiddle their thumbs. Zoë Schlanger/Newsweek

Black Market Inhalers
So many people around River Rouge have asthma that there’s a bootleg market for inhalers (street value: $15 to $20 a pop) and the blister packs of albuterol, the stimulant medicine that fuels nebulizers ($10 a dose). Buying on the block is easier than going to a doctor, especially since the nearest asthma clinic is at least a town away or more

When it hits her, Cason’s lungs fill with mucus while her esophagus walls swell nearly shut. Her diaphragm responds by contracting faster, pressing on her lungs, desperate to catch some air, making her gasp rapidly, violently. Her chest feels like someone is sitting on it, collapsing her sternum toward her spine. Minutes become enemies, and letting two or three pass is too many. So when she forgets to leave her rescue inhaler by her bed, she gropes and crawls down the stairs to find it.

According to the latest state data, more than 15 percent of Detroit’s adults have asthma, a 29 percent higher rate than the rest of Michigan. Detroiters are hospitalized for their asthma three times more frequently than other Michiganders.

There are 52 sites of heavy industry within a 3-mile radius; 22 of these either produce over 25,000 pounds or handle more than 10,000 pounds of toxic chemical waste, putting them on the Environmental Protection Agency’s Toxics Release Inventory Program. For years, the area has also been “out of compliance” for sulfur dioxide, meaning there’s more SO 2—a known contributor to asthma—in the air than federal rules allow.

Air pollution causes 275 deaths in Michigan a year, report estimates

Among the 50 states, Michigan ranks seventh in the nation in estimated deaths related to air pollution, the ATS analysis shows.

PFAS contamination is Michigan’s biggest environmental crisis in 40 years

These once-common chemicals are linked to cancer and a host of other ailments. And they may be tainting more than 11,000 sites around Michigan.

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114

That’s really a shit model, but it’s not just in AUS that they do that. First they allow people to get hooked, then they’re going to raise the price and when people find a way to quit, they take that away too. Governments left right and center should be sued for it just like how they sued tobacco companies and made them pay.

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115

It’s amazing to think of how many decades the government has gotten away with this revenue stream they’ve created for themselves. Another, of MANY, examples of how public health and safety are simply never the prioritie$.

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116

Yup, that’s S.E. Michigan. Just like Ann Arbor. All day long they preach diversity and all night long their on their phones calling in black people walking in their neighborhoods. I have a scanner. People O.D. ing left and right and nothing published. Shootings, vehicular homicide and arson are still the rage and also swept under the rug. And of course the politicians are busy slapping each other’s backs and claiming great change!!! It reminds me when I went into what was the U.S.S.R right after it collapsed. Those people truly believed they had the best life styles on the planet. They couldn’t believe that people in other parts of the world owned refrigerators. Propaganda works.

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117

Just in Trump will push for flavor ban…its very very bad and brand new but really really soon we will have info… Go find the clip

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118

There is another dynamic to this whole thing. I have a couple of “kids” working at the shop today setting up displays and such. I asked them how they got their vaping gear. They gave me a laundry list of B&M’s that did not check age. These vape shops have nothing to complain about. They cut their own throats. This doesn’t justify the actions being taken in my opinion, but there are a lot of folks that are dirty in this whole mess.

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119

Make Amerirca Vape Again

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120

I love this Woflie!!! <3

hate the article…

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121

Hard to say what to make of these ongoing Michigan State legislative details. Interesting:

Michigan Republicans who blasted Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer for banning flavored vape products stood by their criticism Wednesday as GOP President Donald Trump announced support for a similar nationwide policy.

Less than a week after Whitmer announced her ban, federal Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told reporters Wednesday at the White House that the Food and Drug Administration would soon issue guidance on how to take flavored vaping products off of the market.

… more of the article follows (not quoted above) at the link below:

“Trump flavored vape ban puts Michigan Republicans in odd spot”

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