N.E.T. ~ Real Tobacco Flavor in a Vape Juice

[50YearsOfCigars]

@Aleman

Thanks @50YearsOfCigars ! Exactly what I’m looking for, and I’m going to try that American Patriot. I’m excited to try this out. Is that 2 weeks using the method @Kinnikinnick posted above?

Yes, follow @Kinnikinnick directions, especially pay attention to the limit of 130F , He is the expert on what I call the “Hot Bump Start” for PG macerations, I believe he invented the technique… get a good quality thermometer. Do not let the temp creep up on you and never let it approach over 145F !!! Flavor profile and the various parameters that change them (like temp and extraction solvent) are not discussed nearly enough in the forums.

Yea, also on the AP the 8 hours will be fine, even 10 or 12 on that particular one is fine, just watch the temps and keep it 130F not higher !!!

After two weeks you can extract a little (1ml) sample from the top of the jar, then mix it with 1ml of PG and 2 mls of VG in a little ant cup and test drip it on a 15w single coil like a Hadaly or something. During these tests you will be looking for developing strength of and developing flavor profile. It comes with experience, so I know this is going to be a hard part for you starting out making your own NETS, but if you think it is OK and needs to go to the next stage which is to finish and filter, you might consider cutting the batch in half and returning 1/2 to a smaller jar (1/2 pint) and letting it macerate for another two weeks and then test that one again later,. In the meantime you can be enjoying your first NET !

One of the hardest parts of getting going on NETs is understanding the element of time in all this, many mistakes are made trying to get results too fast. Sample, wait, sample again, wait, over and over again is just part of the process doing its thing. The juice will tell you when it is ready. Also make careful notes on paper or computer. I give each batch a Number which is on the Jar and record my progressive testing notes as I go along. For me, this is invaluable information.

A couple of simple and very inexpensive testing tools will help you with that sampling process:

Pipettes:
Topwel 2ml 5.3" /13.5cm Plastic Transfer Liquid Dropper Pasteur Pipettes Pack of 100
Link: http://a.co/1GhvxK7

Ant Cups:
Polar Ice 125 Count Jello Shot Souffle Cups and Lids, 1-Ounce, Translucent
Link: http://a.co/6lrCM8d

On the AP sample, I suggest you use the entire as delivered pouch of AP (1.5oz) and at least 200mls of PG. in a 1 pint mason Jar. This will give you enough “working room” and allow for plenty of 1ml sample testing over a period of weeks.

Here is a picture worth a thousand words showing the stuff you need, including my oldie but goodie DNA 40 HCigar which I picked up at a garage sale for 20 bucks and a clone Hadaly RDA.

The Heat source you see in the picture is actually a Ultrasonic unit, but that is a story for another time, it also just serves very well as the hot water bath to maintain the necessary 130F, please note the Klien Instrument thermocouple temp recording device, but you don’t have to go that fancy, just make sure you have a reasonably accurate thermometer and a way to control the process temperature bath. You will probably use a rice cooker or cockpot (if you can control the crockpot temps, as they are known to run too high!!!)

[Kinnikinnick]

@50YearsOfCigars

You will probably use a rice cooker or cockpot (if you can control the crockpot temps, as they are known to run too high!!!)

Yeah… my original crockpot ran about 150 degrees on the low setting, with the glass top off. It was all I had at the time in the beginning, so I had to be mindful during the heat assist process. My rice cooker runs a steady 125 degrees, glass top on… glorious! Stick’em in and walk away!

[anon13011326]

Which rice cooker do you have, Trying to find a affordable method for this step and most crock pots are to high and temperature setting for rice cookers are limited to expensive ones, A yogurt maker runs 110-115 is that to low?

[Kinnikinnick]

@anon13011326

Which rice cooker do you have,

Got a Cuisinart at the Salvation Army store for $10. I love thrift stores!

@anon13011326

A yogurt maker runs 110-115 is that to low?

Meh… I wouldn’t say so. Try it with the top on and see if that boosts the temp any higher. You could just increase your cook time a bit, if you find you need it; long, slow, and low heat proves to give nice results.

[Aleman]

Hey guys,
My tobacco should be here by next Thursday. I have what I need to get it done. Reading through some posts on a forum I found a guy listing favorite tobaccos to extract who mentioned the McClelland: 2015 Virginia-Perique Flake blend. Doesn’t mean I’ll like it but that one I’ll go with a 1/2 batch. For slow cookers I think what I have around the house will work. The wife has a fancy slow cooker that has a lot of controls and I figure there’s a way to run low and slow on it. Is it worthwhile to get a French Press for initial filtering? Saw it on a YouTube video. 1st French Press then on to coffee filters and then something finer.

Also the consensus seems to be that with NETs I will be building coils more often. Is that your experience?

[Josephine_van_Rijn]

@Aleman

with NETs I will be building coils more often

Building no, dry burning and changing cotton yes.

[anon13011326]

Thank you for the help it is appreciated.

[Kinnikinnick]

@Aleman

with NETs I will be building coils more often. Is that your experience?

@Josephine_van_Rijn has been in this NET game for a while as well … she answered your question dead on. Dry burning coils and wick changes are pretty much a daily routine for me. If you go easy on dry burning the coil (slow pulsing burn off), the coil will last a very long time.

@Aleman

Is it worthwhile to get a French Press for initial filtering?

People use different methods, however, here’s mine:

N.E.T Creations and Reviews (Naturally Extracted Tobaccos or Teas)

So, more than a DIY juice review (I’ll get to that eventually), this is a little show and tell on the Aeropress coffee maker used as an extraction tool for NET. I had thought about getting a buchner funnel, hose, Erlenmeyer flask and hand pump….so glad I didn’t. This thing is super easy to use, cleans up quick and it really has no parts to break……unless you are super abusive to inanimate objects or just clumsy. So, let’s get started! [image] Here we have our set up: Aeropress, 70mm Grade 5 q…

Stainless steel ricer for the rough squeezing of the extract from the tobacco maceration. Aeropress for fine filtering of the extract.

@Aleman

The wife has a fancy slow cooker that has a lot of controls and I figure there’s a way to run low and slow on it.

She probably has a candy thermometer as well… good item to have for testing heat level in the crock pot during the cook.

[Aleman]

@Josephine_van_Rijn

Building no, dry burning and changing cotton yes.

Business as usual then but more often with NETs it sounds like. I have never tried spaced coils. I wonder if they will stay cleaner longer than the close wound coils.

[Aleman]

Hey @Kinnikinnick,

That Aeropress looks good. If I like the taste of the NETs then I’ll buy one of those. I take it that it’s no good for coffee after using for NET stuff. But me I like extra flavor in my coffee maybe that would be a good thing.

As for measuring temp I’m good. Have accumulated all kinds of stuff over the years from other hobbies.

[Kinnikinnick]

@Aleman

I take it that it’s no good for coffee after using for NET stuff.

Oh… I wouldn’t say that! I’ve used my Aeropress plenty for both pleasures. Straight vinegar in a spray bottle is my favorite tool for ridding odors from just about anything. Some things require an overnight soaking to completely rid the odor from the item… but it’s great stuff!

Side note on the coil issue:

I’ve used both types of coils; compact and spaced. Both types are equally affected by how much natural dextrose and “top coatings” which might be in the leaf you’re macerating. It can also depend on your maceration process; Ethanol vs PG/VG.

Ethanol extractions tend to come out a bit “cleaner” than PG extractions, due to the winterization process of allowing precipitate matter to collect/fall to the bottom and sides of the glass jar used during the freezing process. The result of EA extractions is a bit less coil gunk, but loss of “low notes” in the extract. But, that thread already exsists on ELR:

Tobacco Extraction Using Heated Ethanol

Continuing the discussion from N.E.T Creations and Reviews (Naturally Extracted Tobaccos or Teas): Today I started my second attempt at creating N.E.T. flavors. I’m strictly in an experimental phase, but if the results are positive, I’ll be at it full bore. I purchased a very good slow cooker today, which is vital for this type of extraction. This particular slow cooker comes with a probe for temperature accuracy. [image] This is what’s needed for the first part of the extraction: PGA 190…

Some folks do both types of extractions and mix them together to get the best of both worlds “flavor wise”.

[Josephine_van_Rijn]

@Kinnikinnick

I’ve used both types of coils; compact and spaced. Both types are equally affected by how much natural dextrose and “top coatings” which might be in the leaf you’re macerating

What he says

[Skullblade789]

So someone explain to me why heat is better than time? I just do not see it.

[Josephine_van_Rijn]

IMO it isn’t but some people lack patience so…

[Skullblade789]

I get it. Time is best for me.

[50YearsOfCigars]

@Skullblade789

So someone explain to me why heat is better than time? I just do not see it.

The very short of it is that the “flavor components” are locked behind the cell wall of the tobacco plants structure, because that is the way mother nature solved many of the problems that confront a living plant: “the plant cell wall plays a wide range of physiological functions, which include the defense system against pathogens, translocation of nutrients (in this case ‘flavors’), and transduction of chemical signals within plants, and the mechanical physical structure or the plant itself.”

So you want to get those great tobacco flavors into your vape juice to enjoy? Well, then you have to beat mother nature at her own game. That is going to require disruptions of the cell wall. So things like Heat, mechanical destruction of the wall itself (ultrasonics are commonly used for this approach), and enzymatic chemicals, are all ways to work on the problem at hand. Time works, sort of, but without breaking through the cell wall you might have to outwait mother nature, which is always an ‘iffy’ proposition. Just ask any cat.

There are very good references to this subject all over the net . You can start on a background discussion of cell walls at Wikipedia, then move on to research paperss for tobacco plants with things like this: Cell Wall Dynamics in Tobacco

I want to add that the very clever insight that @Kinnikinnick saw with his “hot bump start” is that the initial heat shock to the cell wall provide sufficient disruption to maximize the effective use of the later ‘closet soak’ time. It works very well because of valid technical reasons.

[Kinnikinnick]

Early on in my NET days, I experimented with a freeze/thaw version of tobacco cell wall disruption. Using ethanol as the solvent, I performed 4 or 5 rounds of freeze/thaw with the maceration. Then allowed the maceration to sit, undisturbed, for a month or so prior to filtering.

The results were tolerable, but for my taste buds, the extract just didn’t have the full body goodness of a heat assisted maceration version.

In the end, it is all about finding ones preferred method; trial and error is our teacher.

[Aleman]

Hey @Kinnikinnick and @50YearsOfCigars I am giving it a go. As suggested, 200ml PG in a pint jar and the whole pouch of American Patriot. That stuff smells great! Was tempted to try smoking some but decided to not do that. I have it in my wife’s Instant Pot on the keep warm function which looks to be working at about 138°F. Hopefully this will not screw up my operation badly as you guys have told me to stay below 130°. For now I’m just turning it off occasionally. If I like the results then I will find something I can run lower.

[Kinnikinnick]

@Aleman

I am giving it a go.

Woot! Your first of many! Soon, you’ll be buying the 12 pack flat of mason jars, getting ready for future macerations.

@Aleman

working at about 138°F. Hopefully this will not screw up my operation badly

Nah…you’re good.

Now comes the hard part of ignoring that jar sitting in that dark cool cabinet for a month or two.

[Aleman]

Naw man I plan on doing some tasting starting at 2 weeks! Looks like there will be plenty to go the distance of 1 month or more. Mr. 50 Years says I can get vapeable NET in 2 weeks with the American Patriot. No way I will able to wait a month to at least try it :)