I have always visualized something like this in my own approach to Mixing, but the basis always hung on Steep Times. If indeed the new GC Homogenizer can perhaps eliminate steeping, then many of us can approach Mixing in a more rapid-fire way. What would that look like? What would an ideal software approach deliver/require? Allow me to start the discussion.
Keeping it simple lets just say we’re working on a Blueberry Milkshake. Let’s skip details like warming VG or operating hardware and just focus on how we would finalize our flavoring %s and what an ideal Recipe Tool could offer to speed your result. You might begin with your braintasted best guess of BB%s and Milkshake base% …then you homogenize and test. Hmm needs some more Blueberry or another Blueberry. How could we improve the current Tool which clearly can handle these changes already.
The intuitiveness I believe could stand a new approach. Your decisions would be like “Hmm it’s kinda weak …needs 15% more Blueberry flavor”. Now you’re on your calculator doing Maths (heh). I envision a slider that can instantly calculate that intuitive boost into mg …but it gets more complicated, especially if you happened to go overboard. Hey this is supposed to go fast, no starting over …one bottle and only forward moves.
Another component would be “Ooops too much Blueberry, but the Milkshake is perfect!!” so you slide the tool back to -10% BB. How much of the other ingredients and PG/VG would you need to add to bring all ingredients to a matching larger volume for the final juice? Working on a 120ml? Start with 100ml experimental total to compensate for this scenario. It’s easy to see the need for fractional%s to get that perfect juice, so increments of 0.1%?
It also seems clear that 15% more Blueberry (Cap) from a tastebud perspective might not have the same predictable result as a 15% boost of a Super Concentrate from Medicine Flower or Flavorah, so perhaps these could be tied to/limited by existing Median%s already in the database. Realizing that if you started with the Median% the result would be the same. However as you went up and down more than once, that subsequent intuitive “hmmm still a little weak” 15% more slide would actually be 18% from the original %boost mg amount.
Of course this approach is a whole new learning curve, discovering exactly how 10% more extract of FlavorA affects the final juice. Now that knowledge could be minutes away with an homogenizer and an Ultrasonic Cleaner for instant degassing. So do we need a slicker tool? Something faster to slide into this new development arena no longer limited by weeks (month!) long steeping?
Thanks guys and gals. What do you think? Feel free to come up with an entire different approach, as I am sure I’m not the only one who can see what’s possible… Hey? The Game just Changed!
I think with all the different strengths, like you pointed out, it would be difficult to set up, but using a universal ‘median’ score/scale for each flavour based on its strength could work maybe, I really like the idea though, I think it’s got legs
A probably much more complicated version of the slider would be to go off of each mixers own median…like pretend the median for cap blueberry is 5% but I don’t even sft it that high, so the program runs the median of my usage of that flavor instead of the group median, tailoring that 15% increase to my usage. I can dream right lol.
The option I am considering trying for right now is to use Smokey’s method, count your drops and know how much a drop weighs from your bottle, then you can adjust a flavor in a recipe up by drops if needed post GC and just hit it again to homogenize, then you should be able to input the drops into weight on the current calculator.
It would functionally be the same, but if it was inside the Tool it could keep track with "Save"s and there’d be no math or note-taking required. At the end of each Flavor Add Row a box could display the “Auto Median%” (what is in the database already) or check a box to allow for your Custom Median%s. The main idea kicks in when you over-flavor (inevitable) then it could provide a dilution recovery ability. Once homogenized there’s no lowering anything …simply add more VG/PG and matching %s of other flavors without manual calculations or paper scrawls …Hit “Save As” in the new tool and a add a version number to the title as you move ever-forward.
That depends on how well someone knows the flavors they are using…I think there is a place for this idea . Especially in the Single Flavor testing process. The GC makes all aspect of Mixing Faster . Sometimes to complete a recipe it could take months beacuse your steeping then changing the recipe , then steeping and adding another layer etc…A lot of times your not just adding more of one flavor . Changes of flavors are often needed or addition of a completely different flavor is needed or one may needed to be removed. All of these changes also requires a steep. What the GC does is tskes that process of waiting down to 24 hrs instead of 14days …I hope this makes sense.
The one horrible thing about the " GC " is that since I got it I havent had enough time to use it as much as I wiukd like …Been too busy
Yes, completely. Thx fidalgo. I assume that someone spending money on a homogenizer has adequate knowledge of flavors to begin with. Although, even for a newb wanting to SFT it sure would be helpful. I’ve experienced adding flavors to a mix over a long period of time and then BAM, I over do it with one of them (that was FA Cardamom, teehee) and I was in a tailspin.
Idk if I’ll enter the GC world but I’m a diy all the way kind of person and searched some info about making your own homogenizer. Pretty interesting. How much is he selling his Game Changer for, about $400?
Oh, that’s pretty good. The scientist explaining how to make a lab grade homogenizer said about $200, I think, for parts. He could be talking about something different than the GC though. I’ve just begun to look into this.
Love the idea @BoDarc I struggle with this a LOT and I suck at math. I can add, subtract, divide and multiply. That’s as far as it goes for me. I really wish I could have learned this stuff in school but I needed extra attention and when the class is 35 strong the teacher can’t devote so much to one student.
OOPS got off track there my bad. I would love something like this because I really only guess at what the percentage is when I’m doing my SFT and the percentage I started off with is too high and I have to add PG and or VG.
Heh, apologies for getting the price of $400 stuck in your memory. I made a joke that getting the wifey to greenlight my buying a $200 Magical Mixey Wand® I would have to OK the same amount spent on something $hiny for her. Some Games never change
One time I was making a 300 ml batch. I grabbed the PG instead of the VG. It was while pouring that I realized what I was doing. I stopped and then realized it would be easier to continue with the VG pct and then figure out the math later. I spoke to different people on different forums and received all kinds of mathematical solutions. What a friggin mess! It finally got resolved but now I have a flavored base that is good for 1000+ mls of juice. Yeah, I would like this new tool!
That’s exactly the innovative type thinking that’s going to develop rapidly. Sure, people have certainly made wee tweaks and adjustments as recipes are developed; however, we were still relegated to long relative wait times between testings. And it really does take an extremely patient and dedicated mixer to make many small adjustments and wait all that time to try to quantify the result.
To think that you could test two, three, five, eight -however many- iterations on one day is a real revolution. Great job getting the mental grindstone turning, @BoDarc!! Keep it going.
My GameChanger is in the mail and I will have in my greedy little hands in a couple days. Finally a tool to fight my Fruit Fly attention span. Most of the recipes I lean towards are month long steepers (Custards etc.) and for me “the wait” has been a harsh deterrent to any real freelance recipe creation.
When I imagine a more detailed future that now includes the GC Homogenizer I can see the need for a new type of dedication. A new Recipe Tool would be just as game changing, but I’m thinking of my new process of recording an evolving GC recipe with what we have now on the ELR Home. We all do this already.
Today I want to mix up a favorite SnV, but one of the main flavors I am nearly out of. First I’ll measure/weight the remaining flavor …which I’m sure isn’t enough for a 120ml. Next I “adapt” my own recipe and Rename (Save As). Then in my adaptation I lower the total mixing volume from 120ml to say 80ml and can look at how closely the new Flavor weights match.
In a kind of intuitive eyeball math (change, save …change, save) it’s relatively easy to get to a final mixing volume that includes exactly what I have remaining of FlavorX. Is it Grubby that has an online spreadsheet that has already done this type of recipe math? I’ll have to check my bookmarks or just do a search here.
It’s easy to imagine what could be cooler functionality in ELRs Recipe Tool, but I also understand coding this would be a radical departure, maybe not even supported on this server platform. Now I have to go clean my office to make organized room for trashing my office in a new way