Smoky is probably a bit more meticulous with her lab experience but it’s basically the same thing yes, minus the steeping process but anyone with a bit of interest in DIY mixing can figure that out.
If you see a couple flavors tested, you probably don’t need to see every single one of them. The technique is the same and instead of watching someone else mixing, you better spend that time with your own flavors.
I thought it was interesting though. Before, I just looked at average uses, did 1 test and that was it. It doesn’t really show you the full potential of a concentrate though and it will likely take you a lot more time to dig up other people’s notes which may confuse you even more.
I have a hard time reading the notes. Most of them are from somebody on Reddit and whoever it is thinks they are gods gift to tasting. They come up with some off the wall sh*t. In order to find some sincere notes, you have to dig through a LOT of minutiae.
What Smoky does is good for her but it’s way to much work for what I want in my life. Though now that I am doing some SFT in my video’s I have been contemplating a different way than what I do. I start at 3% (considering 2%) and add PG and VG accordingly. Sometimes if the flavor is too strong I will mix a new batch starting at .25 then .50 then 1.00. I’m not sure if the way she teaches will work for me and to be frank, I’m not sure I want to put all that work into it. To be honest I could care less if anybody thinks my way is the lazy way and won’t mix one of my recipes. I don’t do it for them. I mix my recipes for my own taste buds and occasionally for a friend. Most people that taste my stuff like it better than the over-sweetened tripe they are used to anyway.
I did a batch “my” way and they are all way too strong and I’m running out of VG so I couldn’t do it the way I normally do which I realize is somewhat wasteful. So I adapted @anon84779643 way of doing it by Doing 3 tests of one flavor. One at .5 one at 1.00 and one at 2.00 but do I do that with all of my flavors or do I take the time and weigh each drop of each manufacturer and have a notebook for each manufacturer? I’m not sure yet but I tried that when I first started mixing and it was to much to keep up with. It just doesn’t interest me enough to put that much work into it. Oh well, who knows what I will do next.
I do know that I know a highly respected mixer that hardly ever does a SFT and his recipes are top-notch. He is a chef so maybe he has a highly developed taster?
I don’t understand what everybody’s going on about “all that work”. That’s why I posted these videos several times already, so people can see it’s not that much work.
Smoky has her way of doing things and that works for her, it’s all fine. Most people work with weight instead and that’s not even a problem either using this method. I’m using a €15 100g x 0.001g scale and every drop I put in a bottle registers so it’s really easy to work out a %. You don’t need different notes per manufacturer and when you’ve worked with a certain manufacturer for a while, you know whether to increase with 1 drop, 5 or 10 when you want to step up to the next level. Having it converted straight to %, it doesn’t matter what kind of bottle you’re using then when you’re mixing a recipe or reorder and you get a different bottle.
Nobody ever claimed that you won’t be able to mix if you don’t do solos. Consider it being a tool in your toolbox, additional knowledge. If you’re missing it, you can probably still get the job done but have the right tools for each job will make your life easier. Extra tools also cost time, they need to be taken care of, maintained, cleaned to keep functioning. Same with solos, spend a little time on them and depending on whether you create your own recipes or just slightly adapt other people’s recipes, it will benefit you more or less but in both cases you can work either with or without.
I prefer the extra knowledge, I think it’s hugely beneficial and that’s why I tell people at least give it a decent try and find out for yourself. I’m also not implying you have to start testing the moment you get your concentrates… but you see people here sometimes with questions and they keep buying different brands and extra flavors and additives and what else to get something out of a flavor. It’s so simply to just explore those flavors you have questions about but when the reaction is always “not everyone has to do it your way” … i just
In the end it’s up to everyone to find their own ways but when it defies all logic you can sometimes feel the temperature rise Different people, different tastes, so if the notes don’t work out for you, test for yourself.
@anon28032772 SF testing IS a whole lotta work. I only do one % (for the most part), and after a set steep time. Doing even more %'s, and/or over extended steep times, would even increase that workload.
@SessionDrummer Sweet, I got it bookmarked and I do believe I will take advantage of it. Thank you and thank you @Mikser for putting it together and I do believe he maintains it too which is pretty darn awesome. I hope you don’t mind @SessionDrummer but I would like to leave a link to those notes in the comment sections of my videos.
@anon28032772 I can see you are passionate about it but for me, it is a lot of work. I think I burned out a lot of brain cells because I truly have a pretty bad memory. Especially if it is something I think “takes up space in my brain better used for something more important” Like my name…
What I mean is; It will take a lot of “work” for me to learn something new. It might be easy for you but for me, not so much. I have a lot to do in a day and trying to learn a new thing puts me in a… I don’t know the word. Makes me anxious?
I’m not sure if I explained my self very well. I’m in a lot of pain today and I feel like I’m jsdddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
I’m also falling asleep. I left that typo up top so you could see what i’m dealing with at the moment.
Much love and respect for y’all
See @anon28032772 THIS is EXACTLY what I was talking about when talking to @anon84779643 on her thread. You guys ARE missing the point here. It’s not that SF testing is rocket science, it’s that it DOES take a lot of time. Testing NUMEROUS different percentages, AND, testing over different steeping times makes it even worse. This is what I was TRYING TO convey to her, and I think you. You guys are NOT looking at this from a newer (Dan’s not new new, but you know what I mean, new to the testing) mixer’s standpoint.
I made the point that SF testing IS important, but WHEN was my argument. If you guys (whomever you guys is/are) push too hard on the explicit need for SFT, or, push too hard that it needs to be done using drops, or multiple strengths, over multiple steeping times, you are going to PUSH people away from it. It’s far too deep in the weeds for many mixers, who just don’t have the TIME, or the DESIRE.
LOL, see here we go again. This keeps being said, but we keep having to bring it up. Why is this ?? Because the SFT thing and/or methods is almost now being pushed on people, as a MUST DO, or must do LIKE THIS. It’s ripe for failure.
Great points @anon28032772, but look what you just typed. “I”, and “I”. YOU feel, YOU prefer.
We AGAIN, have to bring THIS up AGAIN. Enough already. We have to stop playing BOTH sides of the coin here. We can’t kep saying “Do it YOUR way”, when we continually drive and/or push people to do it a DIFFERENT way, speaking out of both sides of our mouths.
Again, what does THIS ^^^^ actually mean ?? Why was that posted here ?? Defies logic to WHO ??
And then there’s THIS LITTLE CHESTNUT, again, and again, and again. This statement carries NO WEIGHT anymore, because of the aforementioned statements.
Suom, you know I SF test. Everyone does, because I post them all here. I’m IN for the SFT. But it PAINS me to see these EXACT same things posted over, and over again.
If you (or anyone else) is trying to make a persuasive argument, then so be it, but when it keeps happening over, and over, and over, it goes BEYOND that, to where it’s trying to force people to see it YOUR way, or do things YOUR way, or what makes sense to YOU.
That’s NOT how this works. And everyone reading this, remember, this is coming FROM the Single Flavor Test Guy.
I’m not arguing, promise. All I wanted to say about this is that I think SFT is important, but I never said it’s absolutely mandatory or there is a specific methodology and process that MUST be followed (like you said, testing at many % levels, many different steep times, etc). All I said, and all I mean, is it’s important to know each flavor profile so you can predict more closely how they will interact with each other in a recipe. What one wants to do is one’s own choice and that’s A-OK.
I’m so sorry I mention SFT in the solo taste testing thread when I was ASKED something.
If everybody here thinks DIY is so much work, why even bother. Get your commercial liquids or your one shots if you want to save money.
What’s missing here is a big middle finger emoji.
I seriously understand why Smoky has left the building.
I could not agree more @anon70102222. I just keep seeing the subtle (and not so subtle) repeated attempts to sway people, despite also repeatedly saying “But, you should do it YOUR way”.
If I saw no value in it, I wouldn’t do it, and I do a LOT of it.
First… I work in a lab. Sometimes part time, sometimes full time.
I have learned a lot in over 6 yrs employed.
No I do not mix like most here.
Yes I mix flavorings correctly. [I would not have a job if I did not put my work in]
This is how [I] work with flavors that are highly concentrated.
I also work with compounds that are even higher in concentration than MF and FLV, so yes my method works.
It also works for other flavor manufactures.
I do not care if you do not have the time to do it, too busy too much work or not.
You all do what you feel you need to. I thought it would be nice to put a copy of my tutorial from my site here for those that are interested. Not for a few to bicker over.
This is my way of showing some skills I have learned. Take it use it or forget about it.
I really do not care at this point if you take showers in flavors… Seriously…
If you do not think outside the bottle, how in the hell can you ever improve your mixes?
Honestly I do not care… I get paid for what I do. I am rather proud of that, sorry this is too much work for anyone else. Sorry you don’t understand flavor changes, or if you push a flavor it can morph mute and other fun things… perhaps you just need to copy someone else’s well written notes…
My work load has picked up, and I do not have the time for the bickering. You all can bicker with each other. Rather stupid for adults to behave like this… but eh…
Have fun, do it your way… cuz I wouldn’t want you to discover how easy and cool it is to really understand what you are working with.
Thank you very much @Dan_the_Man. All cards on the table, doing SFTs yourself is ALWAYS the best way, BUT, if in lieu of that, if my notes can help you, or anyone else, then the more the merrier. I’d be honored to have linkage in your YT videos.
So sad that this subject always turns into a boxing match instead of progressing the way it should. The focus should not be how much work it is. Rather how can this save time longterm and potentially make me a better mixer.
You see after the initial BSSFT (broad spectrum sft) things actually start being more fun. Depending on the flavor I like to make 120ml at my estimated mixing %. With that I will make 10 ish 10 ml bottles. One or more I may add a fruit. While another I may add something different. The point here is you have 10 or so different profiles to play with here according to what you want to play with. This is the foundation for recipe creation. As you progress through your flavors it will get easier because certain flavors will begin to crossover.
I get what a horrific thought this is considering the size of most of our stashes and I wish this process had been introduced to me when I started out because everything would have progressed exponentially faster.
@anon28032772 come on brother, you know better than that. I have a lot of respect for you, and NO ONE is saying you shouldn’t help people out. Not me, not anyone.
This conversation doesn’t need to be shut down, so it doesn’t need to be taken out of context, or to the extremes. I believe the point was, doing involved Single Flavor Testing was hard, NOT DIY.
Again, shutting down conversations is not the way to go, leaving solves nothing. If you desire to take it to that extreme, I cannot stop you. You leaving would hurt a lot of DIY’ers @anon28032772 and you know that to be true.
How many times have you and I been at odds before @anon28032772 ?? Probably NONE. Why is that ??
Now I’m going to take a DIFFERENT STANCE on this whole thing, as I have grown tired of these “Single Flavor Testing” threads blowing up left and right. Yes, a DIFFERENT stance.
When you communicate, there is always an IMPLIED message, and often times a different RECEIVED message. Let’s see what’s what here suom.
What I “receive” from many/most of these threads, are that you, Smoky, perhaps others STRONGLY feel that SFT is really the ONLY way to get good at mixing, and I agree. Check that one off. I’m also “receiving” that you two (and others) feel so strongly that way, that people that don’t, either confuse you, or shock you, that they can’t feel the same way. Is that correct ?? If so, that’s how it appears to me. That’s the only way I can reconcile the repeated explanations as to why it’s soo much better, will help you in the long run, improve your skills, etc, etc. Even when people don’t get on board, it almost seems as if there is a NEED to get them to see the light. Is that right also ??
OK, that’s how it’s looking to me.
NOW, @anon28032772 what messaage are you INTENDING for people to get ?? Your words NOT mine, because maybe we are off center a peg, and neither is getting what either is saying, and it escalates.
@anon84779643, honestly, I don’t think anyone is bickering over your putting your videos here, or how you’re mixing at all, I really don’t. Every bit of help, tutorials, advice, videos, etc., that help even one mixer, are worth it. Everyone may never be on board with every thing you do, I do, @anon28032772, @Dan_the_Man, @anon70102222 does, but that’s OK. We’re all adults here, and if anyone is that offended because someone doesn’t see things 100% their way, well, that’s going to be a rough life to live, and I don’t think anyone here is that way, for the record.
I think you DO care Smoky, because if you didn’t, you wouldn’t repeatedly tell people, so you do, and that’s great.
You see here Smoky, that is where things start to go condescending. You can’t speak for anyone here. I can’t, no one can. No one can presume to know what I do or do not understand. You just can’t. See, I don’t do passive aggressive, and browbeating doesn’t work on me, as I’m sure you know. Again, respectfully, you can’t presume the above statement about me, or anyone else on ELR. You used the word “need”, in “need to copy someone elses work”. No one NEEDS to copy my notes from flavors. If they CHOOSE to copy my notes, find that my palate and theirs is similar, then they can save some time. Lazy ?? Who’s to judge Smoky, not me or you. Are the notes always going to be better if penned by the mixer, with their own results ?? HELL YES. BUT, hehe, Smoky, that may be a true fact, BUT, that doesn’t DISCOUNT any and all value in my notes that I take and share on flavors, … does it ??
Again, Smoky, girl, why do you have to keep going there. This is NOT a MY way or the HIGHWAY affair here, it’s just NOT, no matter how some may want that to be true. That PRESUMES that I don’t understand what someone’s doing, if they use someone elses notes, and doesn’t SFT ?? Girl, you can’t assume or presume that.
I’m not bickering with anyone. I’m having a discussion with @anon28032772 because apparenly my above post pissed him off. I’m not flaming out on him, bashing him, I’m trying to take the high road, so I don’t need to be lumped into any “bickering” groups. I’ll sort it out with him, because we are adults.
Guys/gals, this My way or the Highway (or you’re just stupid) is NOT going to play out here. I invite anyone to go and look over the dump of notes that I’ve taken on the flavors I’ve tested, and buy some of the flavors themselves, and see what THEY think. Hehe, you think my notes are wack, COOOL, take some down of your own. You like my notes, COOOL, rock on and keep mixing. See how easy that was.
You like it, GREAT, you hate it, or disagree with it GREAT. See how easy that is guys and girls, hehe. It ain’t that hard.
@Dan_the_Man, you don’t feel like deep diving into the SFT pool, GREAT. Maybe my notes help you out, and that’s GREAT TOO. I’m not going to beat you up and down ELR shaming you into doing shit my way, screw that. Do it your way Dan, and screw the haters. That goes for anyone else here. You want to learn, @anon84779643, @anon28032772 and many others are here to help you out. You DON’T want to do it their way, fine too.
See, when I say “Do it whatever way works for you” I mean it. No back bighting bullshit, if it works for you, then rock it. It’s NOT working for you, and you ASK, we got you covered in that regard too.
No bickering, no bullshit, straight from my mouth to your ears.
@anon28032772 if you feel like I was posting directly at you in a negative manner, then that wasn’t the intended message. I quoted your message, because I just saw it, so this in no way was a slam, dig, slight towards you. If that’s how you perceived it (see I just used it again – Intended Message, Perceived Message), then I appologize (what the fuck did he just say) for that. I’m a big boy, and I got bigger things to get upset about. So, this was not an anti-suom tirade, and I want to make that clear.
Different people, different tastes, so if the notes don’t work out for you, test for yourself.
and single slice taste testing pie! Fork, spoon, or by hand… it doesn’t matter.