Super-duper concentrated ingredients - how do you do it?

E-liquids Flavors
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Now this is def off topic… and nopes I wont do an inbox… :slight_smile:

@50YearsOfCigars… I still think you are amazing tho :wink:
Brave man :shamrock: I still giggle over that 15% :stuck_out_tongue: but I think we both learned a few things and that is my point… we all still learn, fuss and argue… but at the end of the day, it’s what we take home and enjoy. What you like, I might not, but we still sleep dreaming of good vapes and how we like doing it… :slight_smile:

If we all mixed the same, tasted the same… this place wouldn’t be here, and I know I would be so bored…
We all would be, and there wouldn’t be a need to share.

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I looked over your recipe, looks fine to me, as is in the recipe.

this bit here:

****For the tiny ratios like the SC “Havana Dry” in the note above and the Vape Wizard and 5% Acetyl Pyrazine in the listed recipe, I personally prefer to dilute those ingredients at 10% in 90% PG to facilitate accurately measuring those small quantities, in which case I just multiply by 10 the quantity I measure or weigh. It helps me reduce my margin of error in the measurement of those ingredients when creating small batches (less than 120ml) and allows me to more easily recreate this recipe with consistent results.

You have explained how you did it. Me personally, if I were to mix it, I would use scales and no dilutions at all. It is easy to scale up and down for the amounts you want to use, and true, some recipes there is a limit of how small, due to how the calculator here is set up. It is also easier to mess up, when using a syringe to add an extra “drop” and that too is all it takes to change a recipe’s outcome. One tiny drop and that recipe has extra compounds not computed. (Especially if you deal with ultra concentrated flavorings).

As I said earlier, for a long time I would not post up my recipes due to how the calculator was working for me. I know my recipes are 99.99% all Flavorah…I know how many drops are in my mls. and have noticed some of the drops the calculator puts out, is not exact. This is why I said, because I am so anal on things, the best I can hope for is that someone can figure it out, to grab a taste of what my recipes are about, and can enjoy it, despite the limitations I found. For it to work as an exact, the calculator would have to read 100.00% total, for as low as I go.

I hope this makes a bit of sense to you, Pat… if not, I can break it down even more. I did show Lars what I was saying and even he understood and said I was the first in the last 8+ yrs to bring it up. :slight_smile:

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Hello again @50YearsOfCigars.

Unfortunately, the pharmaceutical industry is vastly different and most of the ingredients we use, even in the post-processing lab, are formulated and compounded in-house. Having said that, the levels of purity and tolerance are extremely high in most aspects, so it doesn’t pose an issue in that instance per se as it is well documented and regimented in that environment. With respect to vaping, I concur completely with your assertion, and believe that flavor manufacturers would do well to cater to the vaping/DIY enthusiast since it is still a rapidly expanding market for them and will most certainly translate to increased income for them! :slight_smile:

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Conversations about diluting flavors have been around for the entire life of ELR. Nothing new or groundbreaking today. Here’s a very early post on dilutions, with a lot of very good comments…

Especially…

It sounds like the OP’s most standard dilution is 9:1 / PG:Flavor dilution and can be easily explained in the notes section by a quick explanation of moving the decimal point left by one number to use the pure flavor percentage for any dilutions in your recipes. This way you can maintain the Most Commonly Used Flavor name in the data base.

Like @anon84779643 I don’t dilute any flavors, but I do add a note like…

1 drop Lemon MF per 30 mls.
1 drop Orange MF per 15 mls.

Some might ask why per 30 mls. It’s the minimal amount I find adequate for testing and steeping. Also I haven’t found any flavor to need any further dilution in a mix.

You might also say… “Oh No… DROPS!” I say yes drops. I have yet to find any pg based flavor or extract the doesn’t register between .02-.03 mls per drop when using slender tip bottles or the standard MF bottles. Knowing your flavors also helps when using drops

It is actually insane to test some flavors that high… especially known highly concentrated flavors or extracts. Usually in the flavor research process of choosing flavors you want to try, you should be able to locate a close starting percentage for your SF test… IF you know how to navigate the Flavor Note Page.

IMO it’s best to start at the low end of any suggested usage % and work up or down from there if needed.

I really don’t do much SF test myself anymore, because I have my own method of gauging most flavors properties.

That was true at one time, but more and more mixers are becoming attracted to and is using this concept. But as long as you can buy 120 mls of concentrate for $6.99, it’ll never be as popular as mixing high usage % standard flavors.

These are my thoughts and opinions from my mixing experiences… YMMV.

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Maybe you should have said “IMO” :stuck_out_tongue:

But spot on, @Pro_Vapes, not that I think he will acknowledge or agree.
Thank you.

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I did add a disclaimer… :rofl:

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You certainly did, although you have to read the entire post to get to it. Fairly evident some respond without doing so…

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IMO
So by that kind of logic, everyone that makes a post should put a disclaimer on each post they make.
Forever and ever.

Absolutely redundant. but hey “IMO” Good luck with that.

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yep that’s how the internet nowadays work. Would be surprised how many times I got ripped a new one on forums, not really this one in particular but other onrs, because someone got offended. Then I added things like “in my opinion”“in my experience”" for me personal " etc. But nearly every sentence started with that, making sure I’m not stepping on somebody again, trust me even then people still attacked me for tasting something else they did, or using a other method and what not. all that did was questioning myself. By now I learned, while I have a opinion on lots of the topics or different experience, I the hell stay out of it, for the most part lol.

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I hear ya @eStorm :wink:

I bounce one way the other, most of the time I rarely post here, and when I do, well… I do it well or as well as I can. Sad we all feel like tipping over things some days, and coming from a good job position and an education, I too should just stay super quiet and munch popcorn too.

That is what some male specimens require. As long as I was good old browski, it was all peaches and cream… :wink: but since I do come with tatas and a hoohoo and an opinion on factual accounts I have gone thru. Sometimes tho, they have to learn on their own. Even 15% removed his posts from here. so I hope IMO is happy… just as much as we are. :slight_smile:

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I’ve been through cycles like this myself, so I understand what you mean. Regardless of what is written or posted and as long as you are speaking from your own experiences then whatever the next person think about it is on them… you are staying true to yourself. We all have different experiences and most times they are unique so don’t hold back.

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I really should not say it is a gender thing, however it is common to be in the minority position, at least at my lab. I had a few rough times the first 6 months and a lot of that was due to no training, everything was new and so many things going on. :slight_smile:

just so everyone knows I was joking on my prior post IMO.

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AM NOT! :angry:

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ok, Only when people listen to him :stuck_out_tongue:

fixed!

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You know, it honestly isn’t about that. My stance is that people read the forum posts to learn what they don’t know about, and/or share what they do. I was not offended, I just firmly believe in calling people out who offer advice about things they appear to have no real-world experience with, or who make blanket statements that are simply not true.

For instance:

I don’t throw away glassware as there is no need, and secondly, acetone is in common use in the food and drug industry for cleaning laboratory glassware because it removes not only the polar compounds we use, it also removes soaps and oils left over from soap and water cleansing. Further to that point, I add the following from the FDA PAM-

From the FDA PAM Chapter 5 on reagent blanks and laboratory glassware cleaning:
“Equipment should be washed thoroughly and rinsed with solvent as soon as possible after use. Syringe plungers and needles should be wiped with lint-free wipers dipped in an appropriate solvent (e.g., acetone), and the barrel should be cleaned by drawing solvent through the needle and out the top by a vacuum applied to the top. Particular care should be taken to assure elimination of residues from glassware or syringes previously in contact with high concentrations of {high-toxicity reagents}.”

Ultimately its about contributing what you know and keeping silent or asking questions for what you don’t, not making stuff up as you go along because of some perceived need to be the authority on everything.

For my part, I will NOT contribute false information about things that I do not know, will offer my experience and use examples for that which I do, and ask questions for those things that I wish to be educated on, but I will not easily be offended.

I apologize if I offended anyone, but I believe we should deal in facts when making claims, and deal in experiences when expressing opinions. Hopefully that clarifies things a bit.

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Seriousness here, I do not think it would be a bright idea for anyone using plastic disposable syringes with acetone. It will strip away the black lettering (it’s also what is in nail polish remover) and if not rinsed out properly, and then stuck into flavor/base/nic can cause issues. (excuse me I did a typo… should be Acetoin so strike the next out).

Not too many use glass syringes, that I know of… Most of what I see and hear about are the plastics.

Again, a few polls could be a nice idea, before jumping on just one person here.

Thanks and try to have a good night!

and yeah ps,

most normal diy hobbyist do not have equipment (vaccums) to clean up their plastic syringes. Most do use, like I said, rubbing alcohol or vinegar and a rinse, normally under tap water. (should be distilled, but most I know just use tap water)

Like I said, keep things simple, Pat… Even tho it is used in labs, I would hate for someone to have an allergic reaction, or issues with vaping from using it.

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That was your assumption without knowing the details, again offering advice to me that I had not asked for nor needed. If you had stuck to the facets of the original post instead of injecting new topics into the discussion and giving erroneous advice to those who did not ask for or need it then you would not have been called out on it.

I will assume that you meant “vacuum pumps” which the article made no mention of. Simply stated, a vacuum is a negative air pressure, and typically vacuums are generated on needles by attaching them to syringes and drawing back the plungers, at least that’s how I draw solvent into my glassware and blunt tips (some stainless, some plastic.) That’s about as keep it simple as I can make it. Acetone is a non-residual solvent that evaporates quickly and 100% - what that means is that you can wipe something down with it or rinse your beakers, flasks, cylinders, pipettes, syringes, whatever with and it will leave no foreign odor, taste or residue on your equipment. This prevents contaminating other mixing utensils or vessels with components/flavors from a previous mix. To my knowledge it’s not an allergen, and if it is, even rarely, I’ve not encountered anyone who displayed an allergy to it, and honestly, if mixers work with Nicotine bases at or above 36mg/ml then they are already working with something much nastier than acetone in the first place, so again, know your topic before typing that response - I don’t think I’m asking for much in that regard beyond using the forum as a springboard for supporting over-inflated egos.

I’ll offer you back advice similar to how you continue to offer me ‘Keep it simple’. I know you didn’t ask for the advice, but humor me: Keep it humble! :+1:

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@PAFLICK

Your main question was - how you do it? meaning, other people, yes? You have had many suggestions from a lot of people here, you so far have had a few of the folks here, including me. Some like have given you even more ideas for more topics etc. Take their advise, if you do not take mine. Talking on assumptions, You are the one that brought up percentage based mixing, syringes and acetone. Not me.

Most mixers aim for cheap plastic syringes to mix by percentage. Don’t believe me, run a poll on how many use glass, metal or plastic syringes. Not everyone is vocal on this site, and a lot only read places like this, with zero desire to even talk. This place is pretty cool, with mixers from all walks of life, they all normally get along. :slight_smile:

I know what acetone does to a plastic syringe. It melts and eats at the plastic and rubber. Dissolves it. It is an irritant for skin, eyes and nasal passages. It also is used as a disinfectant, true, when one uses metal or glass, however, again, most here do not use acetone, and to plant an idea for people (that use plastic syringes) that acetone is safe. Yeah. Even hot water can damage a plastic syringe over time. Most anything flammable, has a habit of melting what it comes into contact with.

Cool video here

It’s not something I would use in a home environment with people that do not have proper tools and ventalation. If you like using it with your glass or metal syringes, who am I to stop you? This is just another reason why I like to use scales.

We all have different ways and ideas on how to mix, beauty is, we all can do it the way we all wish to. (or afford or… know how) because we are not all regulated like how a lab runs.

You want to talk on mixers and how they would do it. If they would understand how you mixed and could replicate. Your dilution you used, is average, most people do 9:1 styles. Unless you are working with solutions that are potent, not heard of, not easy to purchase, you won’t have any issues.

You think all this talk, on glass or metal syringes is how they will roll? No, most are looking for a cheap way out to make hopefully the cheap but best way to make the best juice, without putting a whole lot of work into it.

Think back to the time you started mixing, never mind your lab. Try in your own home without items you can bring home from your workplace, and use your own common sense on posting up your how to do. You already have one recipe, so keep going. Meantime, the storm has caught up to me, so again… have a good day… I hope other people will speak up and keep giving you a lot more ideas you can contemplate on.

Good luck once again!

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Thank you, GL2U as well SB.

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Thank you to all who weighed in on my original question:

OR

For anything ancillary that may have cropped up in this thread, I encourage EVERYONE to research and confirm for yourselves any information or advice gained from any source. In today’s ‘connected’ world, virtually anyone can offer advice, fewer still will offer advice from their own experience. Regardless of what information you are given and regardless of the source, know that no one is an expert on everything and you should always get a consensus from at least three separate sources. Multi-source verification is not only the smart thing to do, it’s prudent when discussing the creation of components intended for ingestion.

I wish everyone the best of luck in their mixing/DIY endeavors, and hope that I may contribute positively to the community as a whole! :smiley:

Flicker

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